A few neophite questions

[plavix]

Well, I pick up my 83 Vision on Saturday...and the process begins.  I have a couple of questions, and I am wondering if I can trouble some of you old timers for your opinion.

1.  I emailed Lucky to ask about the CD containing shop manuals.  Is that the best route to obtain these books?  I have noticed several manuals on ebay, but I would rather support a forum member if at all possible.  Lucky, are you still selling those?

2.  My plan is to go ahead and dismantle the bike down to the frame.  I want to describe my reasons, but would appreciate any of your opinions.  My reasons for wanting to tear it down are as follows:
    A.    I want to check/clean/lube all swingarm/rear shock bearings as well as steering head bearings.  I also see a fair bit of rust on the frame that I want to remove and repaint.  I want to check and adjust valve clearances, clean up the exhaust/replace exhaust gaskets.  I want to check the wheel bearings/replace the fork seals/ and clean/rebuild the front and rear brake calipers/drum.  Basically, I want to go through every component (as well as the needed repair items listed on this site).
    B.    It is already partially disassembled, so I am partway there.
    C.    My theory is that it is often easier to work on all these components when they are seperate rather than "working around" parts that are in the way.
    D.    I think that if I go through every component, bolt, bearing, etc. during this process and restore/fix everything, I will be less likely to have to pull the bike apart again in the near future to check/fix some component that I left alone during the initial process.
    E.    The engine case looks pretty bad (corroded), and it seems to me that any polishing efforts would be much easier if the engine was out of the frame.
    F.    I think I will be more likely to see any serious problems (in particular rust/corrosion) on the frame, swingarm, fasteners, electrical harness if I pull everything apart.
    G.    Going through all the components like this will help me to become intimately familiar with all aspects of the bike...which will likely help me with troubleshooting in the future.

So, what do you all think?  I really am interested to learn what you think about my reasoning.  Also, for those of you who have dismantled the bike, did you find certain areas/components which were particularly difficult to pull apart?  And, for those of you who decided to just deal with each problem as it comes, did you find it easy enough to get to everything...or did you wish you had just pulled it all apart.

Thanks for any input you can give.  I have spent WAY too many hours reading through the massive amount of posts on this forum and have a lot of respect for this group.  Your opinion matters to me.

TOny

[Brian Moffet]

1) Yes, however, the CD doesn't have the 83 addendum to the 82 service manual.  I've been meaning to get Lucky a copy of that for the CD, but I haven't had a chance to scan it in.

I'm doing an almost complete frame dismantle on my 83, I had it down to the frame and bits with the engine still in there.  This made some things harder to get to.  I would clean and mask offf portions of the frame and then paint with a hard appliance paint which seems to be working well enough.  I think there are some areas I didn't clean well enough and I'll probably have to redo them.  Oh well.  I'm now on the process of putting it back together, I hope to have it done this month, we'll see. 

The parts of the frame to worry about are the area under the battery, the swingarm pivot point, and the area around the lower triple clamp.  Basically wherever water can get kicked up. 

You'll probably want to replace the piston in the front brakes, you can get all of that from DGY or the dealer.  Go with braided brake lines (I'm waiting on my order from ebay...)  You can use fuel-injection line for the YICS, check the valve-cover breather lines to the carb box... 

I'm sure you'll run into more stuff  ;D

Have fun!

Brian

[h2olawyer]

Plavix -

Your reasoning in doing a total tear-down & rebuild is sound.  I have an 82 I'll be doing the same thing to this winter, for all the same reasons.  When you're done, you will know everything is in good, safe condition & should last for many years of fun riding.

H₂O

[Superfly]

That is definately the better route to go, espically since you have acquired an 83.  Take your time, ask as many questions necessary, and post some pictures of the progress, before & after pictures are always great. 

[Night Vision]

add me to the frame up resto list..

my reason is: one       frame has title
                plus +
                      one       frame has no title and 8k motor
       equals = one       frame with title and 8k engine


oh yeah, plavix.... when you pull those 83 carbs out, treat them like gold!! scan the neighborhood for suspicious characters, and don't go breaking the floats when you rebuild them.

[plavix]

oh yeah, plavix.... when you pull those 83 carbs out, treat them like gold!! scan the neighborhood for suspicious characters, and don't go breaking the floats when you rebuild them.

Hey...I have noticed some "shady" characters nosing around my neighborhood lately...do you think maybe somebody is casing the place in anticipation of nabbing some 83 gas/air breathers?  They better keep their greasy fingers off 'o 'dem. >:(

Well, I feel pretty good about this decision.  Thanks for all the responses.  And Lucky, if you check in here...take a look at your email.  I sent you a message about the manual cd with "vision manual" in the subject line.

[YellowJacket!]

Hi Tony,

If you are already into tearing it down, thats the best way to go.  When I got my bike almost two years ago, it was a mess.  Hadnt run in 12+ years and was left under a house.  I started out just with the intention of getting it running but as I took one part off another had to go with it and after a couple weeks I had a frame standing up in my garage with a lot of parts laying around it.  One thing I learned was that there are many different sized bolts, nuts etc.  I made a cardboard mockup of my bike and stuck the bolts into their respective locations on the drawing and labeled them.  I also had a cheap digital camera and took lots of pictures.
It was wel worth taking it down because I found a lot of little things that I would not have found had I not taken it all apart.  It will also give you the opportunity to prim and paint all those little nooks and crannies that get rusty.  You will also become VERY familiar with your bike this way.
I hadn't ever worked on a bike before but did a pretty fine job of disassembling and reassembling mine withthe help of all the guys...AND gals here.  Lucky is on this site on a daily basis and he will get back with you about the disk.  I got one from him and I used it as well as the paper manual.  I used a cheap laptop to read the manual from in my garage.

Good luck with your bike and we are all here to help you.

David

[kiawrench]

full tear down will be great get to know her period,, and , no joke, will help you  remember right from wrong for a long time to come-- dont forget,,, do not reuse round ball bearing sets in the headstock,,, get tapered bearings, your back will love you for it ,and it will prevent another teardown when headshake flares up.
as far as wiring goes, treat it like a very very sick baby ,at least until you know it is extremely sound!

   buy your self a dremel tool, or similar, some polishing heads and some polishing rouge, rough, medium ,fine and super fine( it isnt much )make cases look like new penny with a little work  but also , could paint the cases ,,, once you know engine is ready to install,,,, two or three light coats of super high gloss black stove paint(or engine enamel) for a neat look,as well as less cleaning in future when get ready to frame up this one i am one, am doing engine black, and a contrasting color for incidentals, most likely in form of hose sleeves, braided stainless, or anodised in one of several colors, . 
  dont forget the brake rod bolt,, that is one bolt that could get you hurt bad ,or worse !!!

[Lucky]

I have a few ppl ask for disks recently, my PC freaked out on me last week & wouldn't boot (i then freaked out)  i disconnected every drive except my main HD & she booted. i haven't gotten around to plugging the others in finding out what caused it (hope it's not my Mad Dog!!!). so it'll be a couple of days 'till i can burn disks again (hopefully).

i'll scan in the 83 suppliment.  the CD contains LOTS of other info, some usefull (service manuals, parts fiches, etc) some informative (vision advertisements, videos, sales lit, etc).

i'll let you know when it's all set (very soon i hope).  if it's the burner it'll be a while, i had a very expensive high quality burner, & if that's what died, it's out of warrenty, & right now i don't have the $$ to replace it...i'll let you know.

--Lucky

[plavix]

Man, I can't wait.  What is funny is that it was this time last year that I found my 1987 ZX600 (Ninja) on craigslist...for $175 no less.  It had sat in storage since 1991.  I took me until early summer to have everything shipshape, but it was totally worth all the effort.  Now, a year later the bug re-asserted itself and I am excited about resurrecting a great old piece of engineering.  This time, I am hopeful that my son will want to participate in the process a little more.  When I ride my Ninja around, I feel very confident because I know that every component was evaluated, cleaned or replaced, and lubed...then everything was torqued to specs.  Although not new, I have almost the same confidence in it as though it were.  That feeling is worth the extra effort to go through that process with the Vision...particularly if I am going to ask my wife to go on trips with me :D.

I think the tool that I found more useful than any other was my old Dremel tool.  From cleaning off crud with the little wire brush, to using the cutoff wheels to literally "hack out" the wheel bearings (which were fused into the cast wheels) for replacement, and polishing up all the visible bits...the Dremel is a life-saver.  For those of you who don't have a similar tool, I literally can't imagine being without it during a restoration project.

Lucky, I was just thinking...if you end up having trouble with your CD burner, I have an extra one I could lend you for as long as you needed it.  Let me know if that is the drive that is giving you fits, and I'll pack up mine and send it your way (my job requires fairly new computers so I have older ones that are not "mission critical."  Let me know.

Well, it sounds like several of us will be involved in a similar process over the winter.  Woohoo.

[QBS]

Plavix, fyi I have owned my '83 since '84 and put approx 86k miles on the clock.  I've never restored it because it hasn't needed it.  But, I have learned a few things about it.

1. Haven't done it, but have heard that replacing the swing arm bearings can be a real bear.  If your swing arm has little side to side play, you might consider attempting to lube the bearings (if possibe) and not replace them.

2. Do all of the upgrades: steering head tapered bearings, starter seal and maybe new brushes, starter clutch reattachement, relocation of RR, SS brake lines, 130/100 watt headlight bulb (Yes, the stock wiring harness and 10 amp fuse can handle it), and probably the fuse box.

3. Assuming that the engine is sound, dismantle it as little as possible.  If it aint broke don"t fix it.

4. Really, really study the Haynes manual regarding removing the carb floats.  The pedistals that mount them can be very easily broken it the correct procedure is not followed to the "T".  I'm so paranoid about this that I think they can easily be broken even following the correct procedure.  Ask me how I know.

5. Stock tire sizes work very well on this bike.  Larger/bigger returns nothing.

6. Grease the speedo head bearing where the speedo cable plugs in.  There is no factory provision for doing this.  Use your fingers to pack plain wheel bearing grease into the narrow space between the female cable receptor and the housing area it spins in.  Basically, do your damnedest to force grease into the cable receptor.  It will accept very little grease because it is close ended.  But, it the process of attempting to pack it, you will unavoidably force grease into the narrow space I spoke of, and that is really your objective.

Love your great attitude.  You will be highly successful.  All the best.

[Kevin]

If you are going down to the bare frame you might look into having the frame sandblasted and powercoated. I've done a couple of bikes this way. I've got a buddy with a powdercoating business, we trade work. :)

[Tiger]

 :) Like several member's, I also have a "Winter" project, which is well under way.
The usual and "V" thing's apply... ;D :D ;)...Drain & replace ALL fluid's, check/clean/lube ALL electrical connection's, including light bulb holder's, (I have even replaced every light bulb... ;), cut out white plastic R/R and stator connector's and hard wire them back in,get rid of the original fuse box, replace it with modern A.T.O. auto fuse holder's/fuse's, not forgetting the one in the headlight bucket, (rad' fan), replace ALL the hose's...gas, vacuum, overflow, etc and replace EVERY nut, bolt, washer, cotter pin, etc,  that you take off with nice, bright, un-stressed, new one's...There is the obvious safety side to doing this... :o...also makes all future work easier... ::)...and also helps to make the "finished" project look complete... ;). Install a voltmeter, it will give you some piece of mind regarding the "V"s charging system... ::)
Best of luck with your project. Nice to know there will be several "NEW" Vision's on the road's next spring, ridden by new family member's....... 8)

                      8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Walt_M.]

I wasn't going to add anything to this posy but, somebody said, 'assuming the engine is sound'. You probably shouldn't. There is a good possibility that moisture has gotten into the top end of at least one cylinder and rusted it up. If you don't want to pull the heads, try to get a borescope and check it out. It might save you a lot of extra work later.

[Coil Coyle]

oh yeah, plavix.... when you pull those 83 carbs out, treat them like gold!! scan the neighborhood for suspicious characters, and don't go breaking the floats when you rebuild them.

Welcome Plavix.  8)

          And don't loosen the tiny nut on the accerator pump shaft that pushes the diaphram without heating the Loctite, with a soldering iron against the nut, briefly, just until you smell the Loctite.      ;)
  :P          And when you break it because you forgot to heat it,   :-\      several members can help you rethread and repair it.               :D       
;)

Coil

[plavix]

Hey all...I am bummed...I was disassembling the carbs after bringing the bike home this morning, but when I was taking the little nut off of the accelerator pump, it just broke. :-[  I am wondering if perhaps I should have heated the fastener up a little before attempting to take it off??? :P

J/K.  Thanks for all the great advice...and I promise to read through all these posts again as I reach the various projects.  I did bring the bike home this morning and will post photos as soon as I can.  It looks like crap...my wife and daughter wrinkled their noses at the mechanical monstrosity, but they both said they have faith in me :D. 

I did notice something a little disconcerting when I got it home...at the point where the front cylinder meets the lower case @ the very front of the engine, right about in the center of the cylinder head, the lower case has a seam.  I noticed a gap (about 1/8" wide, but filled with a soft substance) that runs from the cylinder head/lower case seam about 1" toward the bottom of the engine.  Then the seam tightens up at the first lower case fastener.  It doesn't look like a crack, but it also doesn't look like it is supposed to be there.  Is this gap standard on the lower cases?  If my location description is not adequate, I will try and post a picture.  It doesn't appear that anything is leaking from this gap.

[plavix]

that's exactly what Coil was talking about. send it to me & i'll fix it. i have a custom jig coil made up that will take care of the problem.  i'll return it with your CD. pm me for my address or call me
--Lucky

Sorry for my sick humor...notice the next paragraph in my post where I added the "J/K" (i.e., just kidding).  I was trying to be funny in response to Coil's advice, but I guess it fell flat :P.  No, I did not totally ignore his advice and I haven't actually touched those "CARBS of GOLD" yet.   I promise that when I do work on these areas, I always take the good advice that is offered ;).

I apologize for making myself look like a moron...now you guys are probably wondering who this inept individual is who wants to work on one of these precious 83 visions...I promise that I'll do a good job :) 

[Lucky]

i saw it, & thought J/K? that's 'joking'... you confused me.. lol ... plz remove my phone num from your quote now...

[Coil Coyle]

I'm posting Graffitti  down I5 to San Francisco tommorrow.

"Got scum in your pump? Call Lucky at 865-657-0911"


;D    ;D      ;D      ;D           ;D            ;D                ;D                         ;D                         Coil                  ;)                 

[plavix]

Thanks Lucky...the good thing is that now I know where to send these carbs when I really DO break that part off!!!  Hopefully not.  From looking the bike over, there is a lot of corrosion on most of the fasteners on the bike, large and small.  I was thinking that I would use a combination of soaking in PB Blaster and a hand impact wrench where possible.  Any other wise suggestions to keep from snapping these suckers off?  My ninja was in bad shape, but had nowhere near this amount of corrosion.