Motorcycle Under Over Volt Monitor - research survey.

[kiwibum]

Hi guys. I'm working on an over under voltage monitor for my XZ to help indicate regulator and stator faults. I've put together a survey to find out what others would like in a Motorcycle Under Over Volt Monitor. I have a pretty good idea of how I would like it to work however the responses may influence the design of my unit. I wouldn't normally bother with a stakeholder survey and just design the item for myself but I'm also doing this as part of a technology teaching course I'm taking. If there is enough interest and I can find a way to make them for others I would consider selling some if the prototype turned out ok.

I would appreciate it if you would take 10 minutes to fill in my research survey and also to invite other bike ridding friends that may find a volt monitor useful.     http://yoursolutions.com/research/index.php?sid=65722

Of course you are welcome to reply here with comments however please also take the survey as I need this as part of my course work.

Thanks. Steve

[Lucky]

done :)

[vadasz1]

done deal.  GREAT questions.  Hope it all goes well and soon too.

[Walt_M.]

I wish Radio Shack still sold the monitor I have on the Vision, 5 LED low to high volts. It is about 3"X.75" and easily fits on my '83 dash panel. Works great and is all I need.

[vadasz1]

Actually Tiger and I have the same style voltage monitoring system.  It shows under/overvoltage, has a clock, and even shows the temperature.  I think it is something more inline for a Goldwing but we use it.  Tiger will ring in with the exact name if he can.

[don_vanecek]

Done, I do believe I have the same system also, just put on this summer, I went out to the bike to look for a name but didn't see one. Note that I can tuck it under my little Vetter Bullett but on a naked bike you would have to put in in a bag, it is not water proof. I do LOVE the clock part!

[kev10104]

I have the same one as Tiger and it id waterproof.Not sure of the name though.

[vadasz1]

Just found the packaging.

SHOW CHROME Accessories
Digital 5 Function Volt Meter

part# 4-239

www.bigbikeparts.com

[Re-Vision]

Not bad for thirty bucks, if it just had an atomic clock.  Seriously it is pretty nice.  BDC

[don_vanecek]

That's what I have, but guys I don't really think it is waterproof. They package it as if it was specifically made for a MC but it is really made for inside a car.  One more thing, inspite of its claim to be lighted, you can't read it at night, its internal lighting is very dim.

Now in spite of all this, I really do like it!! One more thing, it is on all the time (except for its so called light) but I think it would take a week or two before it may pull your battery down even a tenth or two of voltage.

[Tiger]

 :) That's the one...but I paid nearer $40.00 Canadian + taxes :o ::) It really is, still, a great addition 8)

I have a full fairing on my Vision and have it fixed on the lip of the fairing, just above the gauge cluster.

8) Don makes a valid point:..."in spite of its claim to be lighted, you can't read it at night, its internal lighting is very dim". He is dead right its veeeeery dim...however, the up side to that is it doesn't cause you any distraction when night riding ;)

                8).......TIGER....... 8)

[kiwibum]

Hey guys.
Thanks so much for all your responses and filling out the survey, still looking for more entries if others are willing. Interesting that most would prefer meter based voltage indication and colour if only fault indication was given. Both these contrast what I want and looking at building. I'll briefly describe my thoughts on it here and post pictures another night.

I'm keen on a KISS principle using a red LED only for indication. I'm following the rational of the alternator light in a car that I only need to know when there is a problem. This has many advantages one being I don't have to worry how to dim the light at night. My current intention is to have it operate in the following way:
-  solid red on system isn't charging (voltage below 13V), just like the oil pressure light it will only go out when the motor is running so you get an instant check when the key is turned on that the monitoring system is working. Engine starts, battery charging at 14.5V, LED goes out.
- blinking LED to indicate voltage over 15 volts. distinctly different from solid LED which is for under voltage and you can't beat flashing light to gain attention.

The aim is to make it as small as possible and shouldn't be much bigger than a standard light bulb used in the instrument panel. I want it small to locate it inside the actual gauge cluster where the 83 model has the fuel gauge.

My other rational is all the other possibilities have been done and I don't see the point of resigning the same thing. Eg. a very tiny tri-colour LED version is available for $50 that indicates charge states. My intention has been to provide fault indication since I only care when there is a problem and don't want lights shining at me when I don't need them:-).

Anyway it's late, have to go out and put fairing back on bike so I can use it tomorrow. Finally solved my starting problems, found the YICS tubes were both split. Will post pics and more info on under over volt monitor later in the week.

Thanks again for filling out my survey.
Steve

[Lucky]

my rational for more than just an indicator:

on this particular bike there will be other indications that the system is failing:
blinkers just stay on, harder to start, radio clock is out, power windows & air conditioning don't work.
ok, kidding on the last three :)

personally, by the time the 'idiot light' comes on, i already know & it's too late..

something else just occured to me: Tourer has always had a lower than normal output, at least 1/2 volt, even with a new stator & R/R.  slight adjustability to fine tune what is 'normal would be a nice feature..

--Lucky

[kev10104]

I've also filled it out.Excellent idea.

[The Prophet of Doom]

If voltage is just a symptom of a problem that has already happened what about a current meter - presumable it is excess current that is causing the stator to turn hot and crispy.  If the current alarm goes off, then before things get too hot you can stop the bike and chase down the problem, be it a short or a faulty R/R, or a crook battery.

[Rick G]

I have one and its too dim at night . But , it has three led's  red, yellow and green and these provide enough warning at night that there is a problem.

[don_vanecek]

And it also has a cute little, peep, peep, peep!

[kiwibum]

my rational for more than just an indicator:

on this particular bike there will be other indications that the system is failing:
blinkers just stay on, harder to start, radio clock is out, power windows & air conditioning don't work.
ok, kidding on the last three :)

However these are also indications of other problems not related to a failing charging system, such as indicator switch corroded, flasher unit stuck, oil in starter, split YICS pipes. An idiot light pin points the issue more accurately.

personally, by the time the 'idiot light' comes on, i already know & it's too late..

something else just occured to me: Tourer has always had a lower than normal output, at least 1/2 volt, even with a new stator & R/R.  slight adjustability to fine tune what is 'normal would be a nice feature..

Yes being able to change the set points would be useful however this unit wont be user configurable. I'm considering the option to enable ordering for indication at specific values but this will only really be useful for older bikes on 6 volt systems or other odd values. If you system is putting out less than 13Volts your battery isn't charging correctly and there is a problem with the system. You need 13.5V for floating charge (keeping it topped up after full charging) and 14.4V to fully charge a lead acid battery, 0.5V above or below these you start having problems.

--Lucky

From my point of view we don't bother with an oil pressure gauge and find the idiot light and oil level sight gauge provide enough information on the lubrication system. Therefore having over under voltage indication on a bike that has no electrical system information gives me all I need to know to check things further when I get to safe haven of my garage.

[kiwibum]

If voltage is just a symptom of a problem that has already happened what about a current meter - presumable it is excess current that is causing the stator to turn hot and crispy.  If the current alarm goes off, then before things get too hot you can stop the bike and chase down the problem, be it a short or a faulty R/R, or a crook battery.

Voltage changes because the current changes, this is dictated by Ohms law. It's easier to measure the voltage than the current. Mostly a current measurement is actually the voltage across a known resistance and the current value given is calculated. Also from the pretty graph in your service manual on the "A.C. Generator" you'll see the output is full current (20A) all the time over 3,000rpm. The main issue with this type of stator is the output can't be reduce due to the use of permanent magnets. The output is maintained by varying the load resistance in the regulator which shunts (diverts) current to ground. This is a very inefficient way of operating however this system it is very simple, light weight and cheap to produce. More on possible solutions another day.

[kiwibum]

As pointed out by some doing the survey there are already products available for monitoring battery voltage on motorcycles. Below are some examples of currently available products, the first is the meter/bar graph type that many have preference for, the 2nd and 3rd are single Tri-colour LED units providing full voltage information requiring interpretation of the colour output. Colour was the preference over other types of fault indication along with the unit being as small as possible.

	Meter type $36USD at http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_battery_gauge.htm#Kuryakyn_LED_Battery_Gauges_and_Chargers_ Note there are lots of different types of volt meters and bar graph volt indicators for bikes, I'm just using this as an example of what's available. Not trying to suggest this particular model is what anyone said they wanted.
	Tri-colour single LED $25USD at http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_battery_gauge.htm#LED_Battery_Gauge_with_Remote_Flush_Panel_Mount_LED
	Tri-colour single LED tiny package 14.0mm (9/16") hole $55USD at http://www.sterlingmotorworks.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=455

I'm not keen on reinventing the wheel (or Tri-colour LED voltage monitor) however I do see a gap in the market for a tiny non-intrusive plain old idiot light that provides under and over voltage fault indication.  My current aim is still to prototype a single red LED unit that is as small as possible, similar in size to the bottom commercial product. It will indicate solid red, system isn't charging (voltage below 13V), and blinking red to indicate voltage over 15 volts. Target price $25-30USD, it will provide the basics for a small size and price. And yes I know there is the Tri-colour LED unit at $25USD however the control unit is about the size of a cigarette pack and lots of wire to hide. I'm aiming to keep this unit to slightly larger than the LED itself, hopefully there will be an interest/market for this.

As I've mentioned at the start, I'm really designing this for me and my bike, however if there is enough interest I'll consider making more. From my survey more people show preference for a meter type and colour indication so I'm not expecting a large demand. I still do question everyone's perceived need to know exactly what is going on by indication of the measured voltage rather than indication of a fault as the oil light gives.  

Thanks. Steve