So I'm pulling the rotor/flywheel to check the starter clutch bolts, although I can see the ends of the bolts as they are flush (and "peened") to back of the rotor. Probably wasting my time, but I want to check the 46mm nut, too. Anyway, here I am -- puller on the rotor (the type recommended in the Haynes manual although I don't know why), with all the torque my 200 lbs. frame can supply, and I can't get it to move at all. Yes, I've heated the rotor and applied penetrating oil.
Question: should I go with the pneumatic impact hammer? I've been known to break tools (and more precious things) before and don't want to add to my legacy. I read on another site that you whack it good with a hammer and it "flys off." That sounds scary.
Any suggestions from those who have "been there and done that"? --Steve
Scary or not, that's how it's done. Spread out a catch towel. Peened indicates previous reattachment.
Yeah, a big hammer and really whack it. It may take several blows, but it will come off. The crank is very stout and can take the beating, the bolt in the center of the puller is actually what you hit with the hammer, and make sure there is plenty of load against the puller when you hit it. It's just another small exciting adventure you get with owning an XZ.
+1 Fret and QBS
Bang the centre bolt, then tighten the other 3, bang then tighten, bang then tighten, repeat till you are blue in the face
You don't need or want an impact hammer
Oh, and by the look of your pic the flywheel will drop a metre onto the floor. Not so good. Put a box of towels under it - it won't hurt you but can move out a foot or so when it comes off
Quote from: turbosteve84 on March 25, 2015, 08:17:34 PM
I can see the ends of the bolts as they are flush (and "peened") to back of the rotor. Probably wasting my time, but.....
I've peened there and done that :)
Mine exhibited no signs of a loose flywheel and had relatively low miles but fear of future damage prompted me to go ahead with the repair. I could see the peened ends of the bolts and posted the pic below. I was told it wasn't enough. There wasn't consensus as to the peening having been done at the factory or as a recall dealer modification but was it deemed inadequate by the forum elders at that time.
Does yours look anything like this?
You guys were right. You're always right. Tell your wives I said so.
Great advice. Had to use the 10 lbs. mallet but it eventually and suddenly flew off. Below are some photos. The starter clutch bolts look very secure and well peened. What do you think? Likewise the 46mm nut looks like it hasn't moved since 1981 (bike was assembled 12/81). Yes, only one securing "tang" is bent but I think that is by design. If I remove it I can safely secure it with the other tang.
So, your thoughts. Since I'm up the ass of this Vision this far I might as well replace those starter clutch bolts. But the 46mm nut? I'm tempted to leave well enough alone. Still....
Two side notes: I'm amazed at how clean and tight everything looks inside this engine. Is it really 30+ years old with 30K miles? I don't think the engine ever had ANY maintenance (all eight valves needed smaller shims!). And what's that marking on the flywheel gear? --Steve
I think the punch mark is to time the crankshaft to the counter balancer shaft. There should be a corresponding punch mark on the driven gear it meshes with.
Clarification: Definition of terms
By "peened" I mean 2-3 protruding threads that have been beaten to a mushroom shaped appearance.
The factory system, which is what t84 is looking at, is what I refer to as being "staked".
The staked factory bolts do not provide long term attachment and, imho and actual experience, should be replaced with peened bolts.
I am surprised that at 30k reported miles his example has shown no signs of attachment failure.
Well, I removed the starter clutch bolts. They came off WAY too easy. No signs of backing out, so I was prepared for a real fight and there was none. They gave up rather easily without even a "crack." I feel better now that I'm installing new bolts.
I sourced two 14mm and one 15mm M8 bolts from Home Depot (that was all they had). Should do the trick with some Locktite, torquing and "peening" or "staking." I ordered a 46mm deep socket ($20!) which should last for the one time I'll probably ever do this trick. Socket won't be here until next week so I'm hoping for some good weather so I can take care of other Visioné business.
Below is an image of the starter clutch after removal. Looks nearly brand new. --Steve
It would seem that your pro-activity has enabled you to dodge a significant bullet. Your experience is the first time I've seen a relatively high milage starter clutch that hadn't failed. They usually self destruct no later than 28k miles. Your report of the three bolt ease of removal would seem to indicate that the end was on its' way.
Agreed, you just may have saved yourself a more expensive repair in the not too distant future. Once they loosen up I don't imagine it takes long for things to head south. :o
Can you cancel the 46mm socket?
Unless it's unusually deep it won't fit the entire crank stick-out inside it.
If you can't and it doesn't fit, then weld a pipe fairly close to the business end as a lever, then hack the socket driver end off with a cut-off blade
The shaft depth is about 70mm. The socket depth is 75mm. Should just make it. If not I can always use the monster socket as a weapon. --Steve
Quote from: turbosteve84 on March 29, 2015, 11:08:11 AM
Should just make it. If not I can always use the monster socket as a weapon. --Steve
That's if you can lift it! ;D
If it does work I'll now have someone to borrow one from..... :P
Absolutely!
I figure we can ship this around the world whenever, or wherever it is needed. Recipient pays for shipping, of course.
Really, when will I ever need a 46mm socket again? I have no plans on buying a Porsche 911 (same nut holds the flywheel on!) and one Vision is enough. At least for now. --Steve
The Mother of All Deep Sockets was needed to remove that 46mm gear nut. Easy-Peezy, Lemon-Squeezy. I may rent out this socket as a studio apartment. --Steve
OK, I'm probably overthinking this.
In the vast majority of cases I install gaskets without any sealant. Experience has taught me this.
But in the illustration below (from the Yamaha Service Manual) it's advising to apply Yamaha #4 sealant -- but where? In the holes? (see image below).
I'm finding out that the Vision is very, ahem, special, so before proceeding I'd like to hear a story or two of successful (no leaks!) alternator cover installations. --Steve
I found I needed sealant around the stator wire exit, and dressed the entire gasket lightly. Didn't do the holes though.
Took a couple of goes to get a leak free installation.
Second the stator wire exit. That is the only place I have seen these things leak. Clean the rubber grommet real well and use the Yamabond or equivalent around the perimeter and where each wire goes through. It will keep the wind blown oil mist off your shoes.
Seem to remember that there was a trick to sealing the wires. I think it went like clean the block, the wires, the case and the cover to an oil free state. Slide the block toward the stator and then apply copious amounts of Yamabond #3 to the case and cover voids where the block ends up living. Next apply copious amounts of Yamabond#3 to the wires on both sides of the block. Next, slide the block back and forth along the the wires to work the Yamahbond #3 into the block and thus seal off the oil pathway through the block. Slide the block to its location near the voids and insert it into the engine void and the into the cover void.
I did the repair you are doing and installed a new stator as well back in July 2011. I've seen where FSM's will note problem areas to use sealer but I didn't see that particular warning and installed the gasket dry. The cover has no leaks but despite my efforts to seal the wires, that area does weep a bit. It is minimal and by the end of the season you can note where dirt has stuck where the wires exit the cover. The annual cleaning with S-100 takes care of that. :) I wouldn't call it a leak as it doesn't drip or get on my boot.
Given the Vision's appetite for stators, some members at the time advised using grease on the gasket as a release agent so it could be used again. Those that went that route seemed to feel the gasket still was doing it's job.
Thanks for all the advice.
I smeared black Suzuki Bond over the wire holders but installed the gasket dry. A little seepage is no big deal. The Suzuki Bond is really black ThreeBond. Hard to find, but worth the effort, as I found this is the only sealant that kept my Kawasaki 750 Turbo camshaft plugs (those rubber half circles) from seeping. --Steve
Giving up with rotor bolt, cant get it loose no matter how I try. I can see that my starter clutch is loose but the bolt won't give up so I can make the repair.
Just when loosing all hope I gave it last whack with hammer and it came loose :)