Starter solenoid

[pullshocks]

This morning for the second or 3rd time I had a problem where the started kept cranking after the starter button was released.  It kept cranking after I killed the engine, and even after turning off the ignition.  Only by disconnecting the battery could I get it to stop.  So I conclude the solenoid is sticking.
I checked again when I got home and it apparently had unstuck.  But this is not good.

Today was about 33F, but it has also happened in warm weather.

Is the solenoid able to be serviced, or do I need to look around for a new one?  I have a spare wiring harness buried away, not sure if the solenoid was included.

[67GTO]

I had to replace mine. You can't take them apart and fix them.

It's a common starter solenoid, found mine on ebay cheep.

Dan

[fret not]

It might pay to inspect the starter button on the handlebar for electrical malfunction.  Maybe not the cause, but it might be.  Honda has had such a problem at times, though it is rare, it can happen.

[Rikugun]

Yikes, that sounds like it could be a little unnerving.  :o So as it's running I guess the starter clutch is in override mode but once you killed the engine did the starter reengage and begin to turn it over again? Did it run the battery down before you could get it disconnected? And this has happened 2 or 3 times?  :( On each occasion did the battery need to be disconnected?

Very curious why it happened. Once the key is off there is no longer power to the relay solenoid even if the button were stuck on.  Maybe the solenoid's return spring is broken or weak? First I thought the contacts welded themselves closed after extended cranking but they wouldn't release as you later found it.  Weird!

I took a similar one apart that had intermittent connections. Vision on the left and Kawi on the right in the first pic. The contacts were quite pitted and a half hearted attempt at resurfacing them resulted in a short lived repair...  Anywho, the top came off easily with 2 screws and allowed inspection of the contacts. The soldered switching wire connections are internal on the Kawi unit so disassembly may require more work for the Yamaha. Once apart you can also pull on the bar to see if it returns. To access the relay coil & spring the metal case is crimped together and would be difficult to disassemble. It might be interesting to hack it apart just to see what's up though.  :)

[pullshocks]

Good idea to check the starter switch, but logically I don't think that's the cause.  Turning off the ignition should kill power to the starter switch and therefore kill power to the primary.  Which should cause the secondary to return to its normally open position.  Since the starter motor kept turning, I can only conclude the secondary is sticking.

Until I have time to access the solenoid, I guess I will keep my screwdriver close at hand every time I start it.

[motoracer8]

 Many times if you have a low or week battery the electro magnet will not pull the contacts together hard enough and the contacts arc weld themselves together, then the starter will engage untill you disconnect the battery. Look at the connection, it goes from the battery to the solenoid to the starter, a direct connection once the solenoid is entergized.

When you push the starter button you are entergizing the magnet in the solenoid, that pulls the contacts together, if the contacts weld themselves together the starter button, or the solenoid entergizing circut is out of the picture.

   

[Rikugun]

Like I mentioned previously, I considered that too but later he finds it not making contact. This doesn't sound like the contacts had been resistance welded together. Are you suggesting a "temporary" weld?

[Re-Vision]

Most relays that are arc welded usually come unwelded when the relay is rapped. I've smacked a bunch and torn them apart to look at the contacts.    BDC

[motoracer8]

 I had a BMW that would weld it's relay and a smack would free it, the third time the weld was permanent and I had to disconnect the battery.

A Toyota relay ended the probblem.  Most of the motorcycle starter relays I've seen are pretty much the same, probbably any one that would fit would work.

[Rikugun]

If smacking it caused it to release I'd have to wonder if it was actually "welded" or just stuck through mechanical interference of the parts or a broken spring. It would have been interesting had you dissected it for a post-mortem!  ;D

[motoracer8]

 Yes, it was welded, it came apart when I took it apart, the spring was fine.

Years ago I had a old Ford truck, they were famous for sticking the starter relay or you could hear it clicking but would'nt make contact. The trick was to take it apart and turn the copper contact disc over and it was like new again--- for awhile.

[Rikugun]

I considered flipping the bar over on the one pictured but after looking at it closer I changed my mind. If you look carefully you can see little projections that appear shiny in the otherwise blackened contact area. I assumed these were put there intentionally and rather than lose that feature (the backside is flat) I tried to remove pitting from them and the  corresponding posts in the top cover. After several weeks of flawless starts it began to act up again so I just replaced it.

[Re-Vision]

They make burnishing tools for relay contacts, if you don't have one handy you can use a strip of paper pulled through the contacts several times until both sides are cleaned up and polished. Of course new solenoids are better but sometimes you have to make-do.     BDC

[pullshocks]

This all sounds plausible....I have ridden several times since (Seattle rain let up for a while) with no further problems.
At these temps it usually takes 3 or 4 tries to get the engine running, with a twist of the trhrottle each time to give it an accelerator pump shot.  The day of the solenoid issue I got a little impatient.    I now pause a few seconds between attempts

[Rikugun]

When mine is cold it prefers full choke and several squirts prior to committing to the starter button.  :(  :)

[pullshocks]

Full choke for sure.  Even in summer.