Who could give me tips on painting??

[Blake]

Hey everyone,

After taking a ride saturday i decided i REALLY need to paint the bike again.   theres starting to be rustthrough on the top of the tank and i DEFINATELY dont want that happening..so this week im going to strip it down to metal, do a little body work, and hopefully start painting this weekend.  

now my question.  I've painted a few bikes before and had decent jobs done with spray paint.  However, i've come across an actual paint booth with real sprayers and the whole shabang and i'd really like to go ahead and use that (to try and get a better job done).  however, as you can already guess...i've never actually used the compress air paint guns before..and so i had a few questions.

1.  for painting the bike..would it be fine to just get an acrylic enamal from a home depot store?  they have a decent selection of colors and im not going for any crazy color scheme, and also, id like to keep this on the low cost side.  i was just wondering if there would be any problem using paint from the store as opposed to paying 30 bucks a quart for ppg or house of kolor paint?  or what would be most helpful is what have you guys used?  I know Sable Painted his and it looked pretty darn good from the pictures.  Any help/tips you can give?

2.  the question that ive most wondered about...  i know you have to think out the paint..but by how much, and what do you use to thin it?  just paint thinner from home depot again?  

as you can tell i'd like to get a step above a spraypaint job here, but still not looking to go all out on the paint (quite yet...engine needs to be first).  if theres any tips on how to go aobut getting a halfway decent job done in a paint booth with a spray gun..i'd REALLY appreciate it!



Thanks a lot guys,

Blake

[Sable]

Hey Blake,

     I don't have access to a paint booth so my knowledge is exclusive to spray paint. I just have been touching up paint jobs and re-painting for so long, I am getting pretty good at it. I guess the only thing I can suggest when you go to thin out the paint you are using is to mix enough for you to do the complete job because you'd be using the same paint for the whole project.  Even if you are off just by a little bit, it can drastically change the color.

Best of luck ;D

   ~ Sable

[harry_angel69]

I am just starting to learn but here is an overview of what you asked.  DO NOT use anything but automotive paint.  You can do better with spray paint.  Yes you will need to thin the paint.  How much, ask the guy at the automotive store paints can differ.  If you are having problems with a lot of runs, it is too thin.  If it looks like an orange peel, it is too thick.  Buy those cheap mixing cups with the marks on them, don't guess.  No paint booth or good clean place to spray and let the paint cure you will need to use a hardener.  How much, how dirty is your garage.  Follow the instructions on the hardener.  Get some very fine sandpaper and don't be afraid to sand a run.  If you sand through you have more paint.  Nobody is satisfied the first time it does take time and practice.  Just like learning to ride there is a learning curve.  You are always afraid at first but before too long you are trying to make your pegs shoot sparks on that tight turn near your house.  Don't act like you don't know what I am talking about.

[silicon_toad2000]

dont buy the cheap stuff, go for the good stuff. I'd use acrylic paint, wet rub and clean between each coat. mix the last coat as half clear coat and half colour (with thinners added of course) and spray 4 coats of clear over the top. When they have all finished give it a good buff with a real fine cutting compund and you'll have the deepest shine in your paintwork.

[Blake]

Harry,

i think im going to have to listen to you and go with the actual automotive paint..but one question...where can i buy some?  would the local parts stores have them? (pep boys, autozone, etc) or am i going to have to go hunt down a place?  as for what kind..it'll definately be enamal, since if i used acrylic..i really have no clue where i could get access to a full mask respirator...and ive already sniffed enough lead fumes making bullet castings that i dont need any more "problems" up there :)




also,  thanks for the info silicon.  half base and half clear eh?  never even thought of that..but actually sounds pretty good.  maybe you could answer one more question.  wet sanding.. i know it gets the slight orange peel off, but do you do it after the final clear, or final base?  and then do you just buff it with the cutting compound the same?  was just wondering.   thanks.



Blake

[Humber]

USE HVLP GUN ONLY!!!

[harry_angel69]

Any good autoparts store should have supplies.  If not they will know who does.  That is a excellent point on the HVLP gun.  They require a much lower air presure, so less overspray and less paint waste.  Nobody uses siphon feed anymore.  As for a mask I would look for one rated for insecticide.  They will all have some crap about how not to use them, but if it is stopping that stuff it should stop paint fumes.  This will sound odd but keep track of time.  Look at a clock every few minutes if a odd time frame has passed you are blacking out and need fresh air.  Probaly will not be a problem because it is not a complete car, but better safe than sorry.  You can always pull a front fender and practice.  It will look funny but you don't need it to ride.  You did mention that you were trying to do this quickly like in a weekend.  There is a one-stage paint.  That is the base and the clear together.  Of course, it is cheaper and faster, and I have seen it look as good as any new car paint.  But it will not give you that super finish that you see at car shows.  That comes with many many coats of base and clear.

[Blake]

Harry,

i dont know how much looking at a clock will do since i have problems remembering what i did 5 minutes ago anyway  ;D


at first yes i was planning on doing it in one weekend..but after reading all the responses i might take my time.  my only constraint is that i'll be taking my bike back to college on the 1st and i pretty much need to get it done before hand..since there i have no place to paint.  The major time restaint is the auto hobby shop on the marine base nearby:

Wed - Fri 1200-9pm
Sat - 0800-7pm
Sun - 1100-5pm


only time id have to do it is on the weekends (since im at work now..and dont usually get home till 5 or so.. )  so that leaves 8-7 on saturday and 11-5 on a sunday...

but..reading a few sites..i think the best thing to do would be go in friday evening... law on the primer...then hopefully base coats saturday.. and clear sunday...hmm..

i just looked at their site.. 50 bucks for the day for the paint booth, or 10 bucks an hour...  hmm..maybe i WILL be painting in the garage :)  


ok.. so next question.. if i do paint in my garage (which more than likely will be it now...if your answer to my question is yes..).. i dont have a big enough aircompressor to run a paint gun... BUT.. i have one of those electric wagner paint sprayers.. it does a pretty damn good job with wood and such... do you think that would be good for painting the bike?  

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?prod_id=162203&cm_ven=hd_goog&cm_cat=Search&cm_ite=24-21-2-Wagner_Paint_Sprayer-BP-16-162203

that is what im talking about.. i guess its an airless sprayer?   was just wondering..when i get home today i think i might go test that thing out on some spare body parts i have.. see how it looks..


thanks a lot harry...you've been a big help.

[Blake]

oops..link to it didnt work..

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&productId=59435&categoryId=0

try that one...  says airless...  thats not the exact model..but just to show you..



thanks again,

blake

[harry_angel69]

The first problem I see is that airless paint sprayers are made to shoot thicker paint like latex.  I don't know how well it will do with a thinned out enamel.  The ones I have seen really do not have a pressure adjustment.  Have you tried to rent a HVLP gun.  I know they start at about $70 new and work their way up, and I said that nobody uses a siphon feed anymore but it does not mean that you can't.  

If you did not like the frustration you wouldn't own a Vision.  

[Blake]

haha...that is very true...vision is synonymous with Vision..  its the getting there thats the fun.

ok... so now hvlp guns...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90978

can i just hook a hvlp gun to my air compressor and just turn down the pressure going to the gun?

that one im pretty sure would work on my compressor for cfm (its only a 6 gallon 1.5hp/ 3.4cfm at 40psi that was intended for a nail gun...)  but what about the "detail"?   there really isnt all that much to paint (tank, radiator, side plastics) so im kind of thinking a big hvlp gun might be a little too much?

i'll definately have to make a trip to the harbor freight store one of these days and see if they have any of the guns.

oh..one last thing.. another i found

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90977

says its 5.91 at 29psi..  there wouldnt happen to be some sort of formula to figure out what my cfm would be at 29 would it?  just wondering if anyone knew.. ill have to look it up..

[harry_angel69]

Sweet, you found one at Harbor Freight and I did not even think of that.  The only problem that you would have with the detail gun is the cup size.  You might have to fill it more often but it should work just fine.  Make sure you mix enough for the whole bike for uniform color.  

There are formulas for figuring cfm at a specific pressure, but it is not worth the time.  If you are only using 30 or 40 psi your compressor should kick on no at about 90 and pump back up.  If you are draining it faster than it is filling stop and wait for it to shut down.  

Invest in a in-line dryer.  This will keep water from messing up your paint.  They are less than $15 and will keep your paint consitant.

If you get one with an on-gun regulator you can set your base pressure on your compressor and do fine adjustments at your gun.  Then you have the ability to move the compressor outside, where it does not bug the F out of you.

[silicon_toad2000]

wet rub with really fine grade as you go through the colour coats, buff after the final clear coat has set, buff enough to remove about 1 coat of clear. dunno what its like where you are but here if you have more than three coats of clear they turn yellow in the sun down here