Riders Of Vision

I was getting ready to pull the flywheel today when I noticed a back-and-forth play in the crankshaft. I can't imagine it being a problem because nothing seems to be loose. It's not much, maybe a very small fraction of an inch. I was just curious to know if this was normal. 

 :)...Behind the flywheel, once you have removed it, you will find the idler drive...slide this off and you will find a large, (46mm) nut. This has a habit of coming a wee bit loose, because the guy's at the factory didn't seem to have the time to bend over the TWO lock tab's...::)
However, its an easy fix. Remove the nut and lock tab...clean them and the shaft thread's and install using some blue loctite, torque down and bend the TWO lock tab's over, flush to the nut. (see more in this thread).

                                      http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=5851.0

                               

Now my question is....where can I find a puller? It looks similar to a steering puller. I saw one at a pawn shop and almost bought it. Is there one made specifically for the V or do I have to borrow one from one of you guys? I've also read that there's a great deal of toque involved in getting it off. A little help?

you can buy the puller at any autoparts store or sears. you can see it on my page here: http://www.xz550.com/starterclutch.html.  click fig 4 for a clearer pic.
--Lucky

 8)...Yup, I have one of those in my collection...think I paid the huge sum of......$25.00... ::) ;D :D about 2 week's ago at one of the local auto store's. I think they are called an "harmonic puller". General puller not "V" specific...as for removal requirement's...read my thread above...and keep your wrist's outta the way :o ;D ;D :D :D

             

I got the bolt off the end of the crank by jamming a cloth in the gears and standing on the edge of my ratchet. I figured as much about the puller. I had one but it got kicked to the curb along with my '83 Camaro when that finally died.  :( I lost some good tools that day.

My flywheel came of easier than I was expecting.......... I tightened couple turns........ wack 4-5 times ......tightened.... and wacked 4-5 times....... poped right off ...no smashing of the puller.            Getting the bolt heads started pulling flush/evenly I think is key.       Plus I got the puller at Sears which was heavy duty that helped.                      I know around here autozone lets you use one for free/deposit.

I went and got one at sears last night for a wopping $19.99. It was a bit of a pain to get it off, and I overtightened it, so the heads on the 3 puller bolts are bent a little. I figure I can just replace them at an hardware store. I hit it several times with a small amount of force, but in the end it was one calculated big hit that knocked it off. Thank God my wrists were out of the way ;) because that thing hit the ground like a ton of bricks. :o

Next task.....finding a 46mm wrench! Woo-hoo!

I think Lucky mentoined in a previous thread about buying better bolts for the puller before using it in this application.  The puller I got from Harbor Freight (aka China West  ::) )  worked well but I used grade 8 bolts from my local hardware emporium & the pneumatic impact on the puller took the flywheel right off.  No BFH & the whole thing stayed on the shaft, not falling on the floor, scattering starter clutch parts everywhere.  Gotta love air power!

H₂O

Quote from: munkyfistfight on January 19, 2007, 10:55:49 AM

Next task.....finding a 46mm wrench! Woo-hoo!

if you don't find one or don't want to spend a whole lot-o-money.....
ace hardware has a plumbers wrench (looks like a cresant wrench) that'll open far enough for about $10

or..... sharp chisle/flat punch and hammer will work too

oh yeah, my sears puller came with sae and metric bolts... upgraded the metric to grade 12 before I even started

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this, but DAMN!! PB Blaster will now be a permanent fixture in my tool box from now on! ;D and I will tell everyone about it. Great suggestion and I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for you guys.

As for the crankshaft. I'm curious because one of the tabs on the lock-tab is up, and so is the one on the water-pump side of the crank. The play is very very minute. I'm guessing thousandths of an inch. I read somewhere that back and forth play wasn't a bad thing. There's no up and down play, so should I really investigate further?

Also, while I have the starter clutch off, the bolts don't seem to have backed out at all and they're pretty tight in there. Should I realy replace them, or would some loctite be all I'd need? My friend at Napa told me that if I used Red loctite, I'd never get the bolts out ever again. If I were going to replace them, any suggestions on sizes?

Thanks ya'll!

bolts with Red locktite can be removed, it's just not easy to do. YES replace the bolts! do you really want to go back later & do the job again?  longer bolts, peen 'em over & forget about that problem forever.

my .02
--Lucky

I just checked the crank on DeckBike, which is partially disassembled and of unkown mileage/condition, and there is no crank play in, out, up or down.

when one has a case off to do a stator or some other "operation", you have to think to yourself.... "while I'm at it, what else should be done while I'm in there"

starter clutch bolts are one of those things... they are factory peened, but a nancy must'a been at that workstation  ::). ok, they may be tight now, but for how long?

both my balancer gear nut and starter clutch gear nut (the 46mm one on the crank) had one tab on the washer bent over, and both were loose... on an engine that had less than 6k miles on it.

some say... if it ain't broke, don't fix it...
others say... if I can't fix it, it ain't broke
all depends on how often you like having your bike laid up working on it ;)

good point. I guess I'll track down that wrench. The biggest problem that I'm having with this bike is the "duh" problems.
I've read through alot of this forum, and the stator, the starter clutch, the tci, etc...are all big problems.

I used to own a '94 Saturn SL2. When I got the car in 2001, it had 100k on it. When I sold it to a friend 2 months ago, it had 320k on it, with the original engine. Not bad for my first car....the problem I had with it was the questions that arose that sounded like this....."Who designed this???"  ??? ??? ??? At either rate, as I'm sure applies to the Vision, it was one of the best cars I ever owned, it just required special maintenance. I bought the manual, and I learned how to take care of the cars special problems.
I'm going to be very proud and happy when I get this thing running.

Anyways, when I got the bike 4 years ago in a junk yard, the tach read somewhere along the lines of 42k. When I pulled it apart the biggest problems were that the carbs were gunked, the stator was fried, and the gas tank was completely rusted out.

I figure that what I'm going through right now are the "growing pains" of being a Vision owner, but i don't think I'd have it any other way.  :P :P :-X

Gracias, again, to all the help! The Bedroom Vision shall ride again!!

 :) The info' you require, RE: the three soc' head cap screw's for the startes clutch. The original one's are M8 x 12mm with a fine thread pitch - 1.0mm. I have to admit that I replaced mine with one's of the same length, however, I used red Loctite and then torqued them back in, turned the flywheel on it "back", (thread's side out), and using a punch I peened the end of the screw's in a "shamrock" style:
   *    *
      *
Lucky is right, part's using red Loctite are removable...but you need to take a torch to get the heat required to "break" the thread's. Make sure that thread's that are getting the loctite treatment are completely clean & dry, (use a parts washing solvent), before applying.

Have no fear, we will help you to "raise her from the ashes"... ;)

               

Got the bolts out. They're alot smaller than I imagined. Can I take them to a hardware store and possibly match them up? Gotta love a machine thats held entirely together with allen-key bolts. :D :)

Quote from: Tiger on January 20, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
:) The info' you require, RE: the three soc' head cap screw's for the startes clutch. The original one's are M8 x 12mm with a fine thread pitch - 1.0mm.

I got longer ones, put a nut on, ground them down to 13 or 14mm, cross cut the tops, took nut off, inserted into starter clucth, loctited and peened them over onto the flywheel...

get the grade 12.8 black ones

I belive the question was about c/s end play, yes the big nut on the flywheel side comes loose, and that has been covered here many times, but that has nothing to do with crankshaft end play. End play should be .004 to .006, you check this with a dial indicater, mounted near the clutch drive gear on the right side of the engine, with that done you move the c/s side to side to check end play. It is not easely adjusted as the thrust surfaces are cast into crankcases.

  Ken G.

Where did you get the end play spec? I couldn't find it. The closest I got was on page 8-22 in the Yamaha manual where journal clearance is given as 0.0008 to 0.0024 in, which is pretty tight. If you can detect end play without a gauge, it it probably too much.

Visually, its not much. But I can definitely move it with my fingers. If I wedge my fingers behind the gear on the stator side, I can pull the crankshaft and it make a contact noise. It just didn't seem to be enough to make a difference. I'm going to tighten that bolt and be on the safe side. The internal engine compartments are clean and there's no sign of wear or "foul play". We'll just have to see how it pans out in the long run.

It would probably be worth your time to put a dial indicator on the end of the crank to see what the clearance is. If it is over 0.006, you may well have more as yet uncovered problems. I would hate for you to put in the kind of work yours is going to take, judging from the photos and have it blow up a mile or so into your first ride.

Now my question is........how tight does this nut have to be on the crankshaft? I can't see a way to measure the torque on it. Should it just be tight enough that the shaft doesn't move anymore?  I only ask because I can't find a wrench that'll fit over the nut. My adjustable wrench will fit, but I don't think I could tighten it down enough with that. Will the lock tab hold it in place once it's tight enough?

Walt, the numbers you quoted are rod bearing clearences, and you are quite right they are small. Where I got the crank end play numbers, was from the Yamaha tech dept. I repaired a Vision engine some years ago that had been run out of oil, It ruined both rod bearings, one main bearing, and the thrust bearing surface cast inside the crankcase. If you look on page 3-34 of the factory shop manual you will see what I'm talking about. The damage to the engine exceded the value of the bike, crankshaft $600, Crankcases $400, This was when you could still buy parts for them, and there were not alot of junkers around. But the owner wanted it repaired, so I welded and machined the crankcase, had chromecraft fix the crankshaft, and I resized the rods. He did most of the assembly work himself, I assembled the bottom end so I could get the end play right. He rode it untill 2001 without probblems [with oil] and sold it to buy a Suzuki.

   Ken G.