Knee Dragging

[Lucky]

Ok, now that the nice weather is here, i thought this would be good fodder for discussion, or at least an interesting read.

i've been playing with my lean angles little by little, working on my confidence, etc. (dropping the bike was NOT part of that  ::)) Since scraping Daves peg (sorry Dave)

i've got the bike over much more than ever lately on the half dozen or so curves between home & work, & though, incorrectly, that they were becoming less chalenging.

I'd like to drop a knee on the bike at some point.

there is a very good artical on the R1 Forum here:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171467

I'm not sure my fully loaded Vision is the best bike to do this on, but perhaps knowing the particular bike well enough makes it possable.  If i hade a second Vision, it'd def get cafed  ;D  I'ii bet there are at least a few of you (Zore?) who have done it on the V...

opinions on this bike's capabilities? i know the riders capabilities are 90% of it, just wondering if you think this bike is fully able to do it, or 'not quite there'

anyway, that's all, i mostly wanted to post the link.

--Lucky

[kiawrench]

 
i was hitting some of the dragon with a knee down, but that lil ol' brake rod decided i had done enough tempting of fate.

it can be done, you can do it , and it will look just as funny with you doing it as it does with me or anyone else. it just takes a lot of practise, a deep trust in the bike,anda really good set of tires .
one note: i wont do it anymore- starting to take longer to heal up from mistakes .

[ps2/bikevision]

ive never drog a knee, mainly cause i just wear jeans. but i have drug a toe. i kind of stick my feet out a little so the toe of my boot will start to drag when i get leaned over pretty good. i use it as a judge of how far over i get.

[Lucky]

i did drag boot on the Dragon, it's the way i ride with my toe below the shifter.  i pulled it up after that & never touched peg. (really, ask peg, lol)

[Brian Moffet]

The reason the racers drop a knee is to know how far over they are.  The will slide off the seat to help the turn, but the knee is used for judging the angle (or so I've heard.)  I've only dropped a foot once (and it wasn't pretty)

Brian

[Lucky]

I see it as a confidence in my skills & machine goal...

[h2olawyer]

After riding the naked pumpkin & comparing it to the full faired V, I'd say it is easier menatlly to get the naked bike over.  I was taking corners on it at a much faster clip & greater lean angle than I ever have on the full faired V.  My skills have improved over the last couple years - riding more.  I'm thinking I will soon be peg scraping on the pumpkin.  Not sure if I'll ever get to that point on the silver V.  It is a confidence thing & the full fairing just seems to hinder that a little for me, anyway.

Brian is correct - dragging a knee is used as an indicator more than anything else.  You really need to hang off the bike to get your knee to that position.  At the races I attended over this weekend, there was a session of bikes.  I watched technique closely (being a flagger right at a corner puts you close to the action) The kneedraggers had the outside knee on top of the seat, their butt halfway between seat & inside peg and their knee sticking way out.  They were hitting knees while their pegs still had quite a bit of clearance.

Sounds like we're at about the same point in our learning curve!

H₂O

[reckon]

to drag knee with a V with STOCK FOOTPEGS, you'll need to be fully scraping the pegs AND hang pretty damn far off of the seat.

I get my V as low as it'll go (fully scraping the pegs to the point of almost lifting the rear wheel) and I still have about a half inch of "chicken strips" on the tires (the strips of un-touched rubber at the very edge of your tires) and with a "normal" seat hang off I'd be no where near getting a knee down.

on my RZ350 with the rear sets and metzlers it's MUCH easier, just hang off the seat a little, and lean it over until I feel my knee pucks start to scrape, and give it plenty of throttle on the exit.

so if you really want to drag knee on your V, you'll need to get 1) rear sets 2) some GOOD leathers, 3) a nice smooth 30-40mph corner and 4) plenty of ball sack

[Brian Moffet]

At one point in time, a friend of mine and I went to Alice's restaurant.  He was on his FZR 600, and I was on my Vision.  Because the road was really tight, I was pretty much keeping up with him all the way up.  (not sure I could do it now, I'm out of practice).  When we got there, he commented he dragged his footpeg a couple of corners and asked if I had as well.  I was rather embarrassed to to tell him I didn't even get close. 

Brian (gotta love that ground clearance!)

[ps2/bikevision]

when i first got my fzr it had the stock pegs on it with the feeler studs on the ends. After hitting a nice sweeper and hitting the peg it scared the crap out of me. Id never scraped with the vision in that corner. I ditched those pegs for a pair of lockhart phillips aftermarket ones. I havent hit those ones yet and dont want to. I hit them on my buddies bike and it wasent as bad as the fzr. I did have a bent fork at the time. But i didnt like how it felt. Thats also why i use my toe as a guide. Once i feel it i know im far enough over my my likeing. Just the same as dragging a knee. Just less painfull when you forget your not wearing your pucks.

[h2olawyer]

At one point in time, a friend of mine and I went to Alice's restaurant.

Did you get anything that you want?   ;D   Thought that place was back east in Mass or upstate New York.  Must have been quite a roadtrip.   ;)

H₂O

[Brian Moffet]

There is an Alice's restaurant in Woodside, on skyline Blvd.  Not sure if that is "The Alice's" or not...

http://alicesrestaurant.com/

Brian

[reckon]

There is an Alice's restaurant in Woodside, on skyline Blvd.  Not sure if that is "The Alice's" or not...

http://alicesrestaurant.com/

Brian

it sure is,..........and I'm old enough to remember

lesee,..I was 5, traveling in the back of a VW bus,...my mom was a singer in a band called "the maximum speed limit",..my mom had a 883 sportster with a 936 kit my step dad had put on it, and I remember she was always arguing with him that "it had plenty of power before, now it's a MONSTER!",...and we were stopped at alice's and she traded (or something) a guys 883 sportster, for her "monster",...and that my step dad was pissed,.....but I didn't care because I liked the 883 better because she would always take me for rides on it,

so I guess I have been on motorcycles just about my whole life

and I STILL just LOVE them


that was a long time ago


nowadays I NEVER ride up there anymore because of all the cops harassing motorcyclists

[Brian Moffet]

Yeah, the ride I mentioned was around 1992 or so.

Brian

[h2olawyer]

The "Alice's Restaurant" from Arlo Guthrie fame was actually the home of Alice & Ray Brock.  The house was a converted church and located in Stockbridge, Mass.

For a link to the story, check here:

www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/alice.html

I have heard the story told by Arlo on NPR and read it in some long forgotten magazine articles.  This telling follows the points I remember.

H₂O

[Kenny]

  Lucky- One of the first " corrections " I received at the FAST course I Took was to get my feet above the Pegs & here I thought I was "well healed over" when I scrubbed my boot souls! ;) ;D
                         Ken S.

[motoracer8]

In 91 I bought a new BMW K100 RS, and with it came a two day riding school by Reg Pedmore, I din'nt want to chance throwing a new BMW down the road so I took the Vision. There were many new BMW owners in the class, several of them wonderd what I was dooing there on that piece of crap Yamaha. The V had a new set of Avons, that were pretty much used up by the end of the second day, I had a great time strafing some of the new bikes, but some of them could ride, so it was hard to keep up on a flexi flier with no brakes. I could hang with most of the twins, but the fours would just pull away. It was great fun, and in the end some had alittle more respect for my piece of crap Yamaha. The Vision is fun to ride but it is no road racer, they will do some very rude stuff if pressed hard.

  Ken G.

[QBS]

All of you guys a just Great!  I am always amazed at the depth of knowledge and experiance to be found here.

[zore]

Here is going to my 2 cents based on experience.  I have done a few track days and this is the only place I would put a knee down.  I just don't think public roads are good enough to ride at that level.  My street riding technique has been carried over from my track lessons of a few years back.  Pick a gear, place the balls of my feet up on the pegs to keep the toes from dragging, then slide my ass off the seat into the turn to maximize weight transfer.  I keep my knee tucked in the tank.  I don't even ride with knee pucks anymore (I don't suggest putting a knee down with out pucks... ouch).

Another thing I was taught was not to worry about dragging a knee.  Worry about being smooth, and getting the bike turned using good form and technique.  The knee will touch down on it's own at that point.  Track tutorial days are an easy way to gain skill and confidence and is a lot safer than trying to learn techniques on the street.  Basically,  if you try to hard, you'll just end up using bad form and technique and might actually go slower. 

At the gap, I was dragging the mac exhaust and foot pegs around corners on almost 20 year old tires so I think with a good set of tires and the suspension right, it should move pretty well thru a turn.

If money allows, I'd like to do a track day this year, but who knows.  Might have gotton a knee down here but I was too fat and the leathers too tight   ;D.  Those things just seem to shrink over the winter.

[reckon]

  I have done a few track days and this is the only place I would put a knee down.  I just don't think public roads are good enough to ride at that level.

I never dragged knee on highway 24 westbound at the 980 connector on a suzuki water pumper with almost 140hp, at nearly 110mph,...............nope never.

but I think I was like 18 and stupid when that never happened  :D  (and lucky to be alive with some of the crap I used to pull on motorcycles)


now a days I don't even ride track days,.....I'm savin up for a trip to bonneville in 09'.