On the www.regulatorrectifier.com website, they make the following claim about the XZ550 stator that they sell "Redesigned and Improved output Stator. This unit has a higher output capacity than the OEM unit, and will not have the problems that you have experience with you OEM version." Actually, they make that claim on all their stators, but nevertheless, the comment caught my eye.
I've written them an email to ask them who their manufacturer is, but meantime has anyone had any experience with RegulatorRectifier? They also have a similar claim about the R/R they sell for the XZ550R, "Re-Designed and Improved Regulator Rectifier. This unit has a higher output capacity, and will not have the problems that you have experienced with your original version. 8% better Performance than the stock unit." I'm intrigued by the possibility of them having best of breed quality parts for these two components
All we need to do is have 20 people chip in 8 bucks, ship one to H2O and see how long it lasts...
Quote from: Brian Moffet on July 01, 2009, 08:36:49 PM
All we need to do is have 20 people chip in 8 bucks, ship one to H2O and see how long it lasts...
LOL...the true "Acid Test"
I think they should just ship it to him for free to try to prove their point. If it fails, then theyre fibbing.
David
That's a good one, Brian (and David)!
I'd say, these are from the same supplier Electrosport uses. Same blue insulation on the stator and same casing on the R/R. I got my last ones from RM Stator in Canada & that stator was the same as the Electrosport unit I bought a few years ago. They're Chinese made. Electrosport makes exactly the same claims. When they were still Electrex, they had all their parts made in the US. That's no longer the case.
I replaced an OEM type R/R with the Electrosport / RM Stator / this outfit replacement last year. The regulator went out in about 1500 miles. Swapped back to the old OEM type & got an additional 1000 miles out of the stator. That stator was the first to go much over 1000 miles & it made 2500! That's why I'm pretty sure I got a bad OEM type replacement R/R. The older OEM type R/R still tests as fully functional with no faults. Somehow, it was shunting too much back into the stator - with the new aftermarket R/R, the bike runs a bit cooler as well.
Pretty sure I have my stator issue cured. I'll know in about 400 more miles. If it fries then, I'll know it is most definitely a vibration issue since everything was replaced (again) last time.
H2O
So much for their specific claim:
"We have a few different models, some are made in South America, and others in China. Is there a brand name that you are looking to avoid?"
At this point, it looks like simple cut and paste marketing
Mine was Rick's Stator. It's now dead. I might just buy another from Rick.....mine lasted two years. That's longer than any of the warranties.
H2O, I doubt the cause is a vibration issue. Unless yours vibrates more than most or you are not using quality hardware to fasten the stator the the case. Both my Vs had the same vibe characteristics. Electical failures are caused by 50% heat the other 50% wiring issue. But in the Vision case is mostly heat. Take it from an E.T.
After changing the stator several times and the R/R twice - and still burning stators, I was thinking I might have a high frequency vibration - one that isn't easily heard or felt. After the latest R/R swap, I believe I may have the problem at least partly solved. Always used the OEM hardware to mount the stator and always loctited the screws.
H2O
Mine weren't locktited.....but installed with a manual impact driver. I'm sure that I'll have to use the impact to get them out also.
you do not have to use the phillips bolts that hold the stator. There is enought clearance for regular hex bolts. Reason for the phils is to limit torque so you don't strip the cases.
Perhaps those with stators that last a long time ride mostly at lower (or higher?) rpm's than those with short lived stators? I've only taken my bike to the redline a few times and ride mostly in the 4-5000 range, or try to. Mind you, I've already burnt one out.
90% of the time I am in 5th gear...back roads or hi-way. So my rpms are 90% 3500 to 6500. ANd I see redline regularly. 31k on the original....still kickin'...hope I have not jinxed myself. FYI I have set my thermostat to 165 opening. COuld that be a help....? suggest that may help. But constant changing the same parts and not finding the ACTUAL cause is wasting time. H20- You have an electrical issue and the stator failure is the result. QUESTION:What's the root cause? Personally...I think it's likely the wiring harness. Or your brown regulator wire is screwing things up somehow.
I've been good for 5+ years now (touch wood). did all the regular mods, soldered the connections, moved the R/R & of course built the oil cooler.
--Lucky
I think H2O finally determined it to be a bad R/R.
somebody better knock on some wood.
David
About 98% certain it was an R/R issue. The times I've been able to swap the R/R in the past, I kept getting bad regulating issues in the replacement R/Rs & went back to the one that kept testing OK.
I'm getting tired of posting that I'm fairly positive I found the issue. Posted it what seems like a dozen times in various threads. It sure appears that the replacement R/R I got from Rick's when my original stator died was fubar from the start - even though it passes all tests with flying colors. The "Rick's" R/R is nothing more than the exact R/R Yamaha installed originally. Same size, shape, color, sticker & brand. I'm now running the replacement R/R sold by RM Stator. (Looks like the one Electrosport sells.) Had one from RM last year & the regulation side went bad (charging @ 17+ volts) of course, that happened a week after the warranty ran out. >:( But, I got 1500 miles on that stator / R/R combo before the R/R died. Then I changed back to the "Rick's" R/R and got the typical 1000 miles before the stator died. So, I got 2500 miles out of that stator - 1500 miles on the RM + 1000 additional on the older "Rick's". The fact I got the 1000 miles on the "Rick's" again was the telling factor.
If it was a wiring harness issue, I have no idea where it would be. I've owned this bike since new & have never cut any wires except for the stator connectors. I've built a few taps to install in line to get power for things, but that involved making a wire pigtail that plugged into factory connectors. The only other wiring fault would have been a factory defect or a short from rubbing - but I went through the harness & there is no sign of rubbing anyplace.
H2O
I installed a hardly used stator (OEM from the Vision racer) in the spring 0f '05 and it failed 2 weeks ago . Mileage was around 25,000. It's been hard wired on both sides of the RR, which is from a Kwaker KZ1100, which has a larger heat sink and its been relocated to a bracket above the left foot peg mount.
It failed after a day of running in 122. deg temps. The Vision was coming up on an oil change and was about 1/4 quart low when i left home. It took a quart to top it off , just before I jumped on the freeway to come home, so the stator was not getting the correct amount of oil splashed on to it.
I still need to remove the '03 Eletrex, from the spare bikes engine and install it in the rider.
H2O, WHAT >>>>if any electrical accessories are you running? These bikes only put out max. 250-300watts depending on the rpm of the engine. The bike running and w/brake light on draws 217 watts. So imagine stopped at a light. The stator is not capable of pushing needed juice for high wattage accessories like an electric vest(winter) or another 55w quartz driving light... I have 1157 bulbs in the front signals as running light(aka Honda style). That's only 16watts extra. I know any more draw is pushing it if I was stopped w/brake on. If you have high wattage accessories...take them off.
Again, the damn thing is most likely fixed! 98.2763957% positive it was the R/R. (re-read the post above as to how I made the determination) I also installed a new battery both with the first stator / R/R replacement and just got a new one again this spring. Made it 6 years with the previous battery on a battery tender. 8)
I went through several stators with just the OEM power requirements - no accessories. Some I had just the helmet cam added. The last 3 I had a pair of 55w driving lights. Every time, the stator lasted 1,000 miles. No more, no less. (within a hundred miles)
The stator is ALWAYS putting out the maximum once the bike is over around 2K RPM. The excess power is shunted by the R/R to ground & as heat off the R/R. After much discussion here, I tried using all the available power & then some. By using all the power, the R/R has much less or even nothing to shunt. Made no difference in the stator life. I've tried soldered connections, Posi-lok connections & OEM style plug connections between the R/R & stator. No change. I've run an additional ground from the R/R directly to the frame. No change. I've been through the entire harness twice looking for bad wiring - found none. It isn't like I merely swapped parts every time. I even tried using the battery from Tractor on one of the stators. Still got the typical 1000 miles.
Tried other R/Rs, but every one I had on hand had a bad regulator circuit - charging @ 17+ volts. With the new R/R from RM Stator, I got 1500 miles out of the stator before the regulator side died, installed the old OEM type R/R & got 1000 additional miles before the stator fried. Finally, 2500 miles out of one stator! The difference was the mileage I got with the R/R from RM Stator. I installed another new RM stator R/R with the new stator last fall. 900 miles so far & going strong. The R/R that I had been using tests fully 100% functional in all Electrosport tests & it was brand new when I originally installed it when the first stator died. That was why I doubted it was the R/R for so long & tried finding other trouble sources. I had thought the R/R could have been the culprit and that was why I finally bought a new one 2 years ago - (only to have it go bad about a week after the warranty ran out).
The big irony is that I decided to install a new R/R, & new battery when I put the first replacement stator in. I was hoping to avoid future stator issues. That was also when I soldered the stator / R/R connections the first time (never again). Turns out that in my zeal to avoid or at least stave off future stator problems, the new R/R I installed has some sort of undetectable defect - at least undetectable with the Electrosport charging system flowchart - which ended up causing all the fried stators. ::) I believe it was failing to shunt all the excess to ground, causing the angry electrons to back-up and cooking the stator. It was working more like a heating coil than a charging system. With the new R/R (as well as the previous RM R/R, the bike tends to run cooler as well.
I installed an auxilliary power center in the fairing. Ran a pigtail tap into the license plate light circuit to operate a 40A relay. The tap is a "Y" with connectors that plug into the wiring. No "Scotch Lock" type connectors. In fact, the wiring has NEVER been spliced into - not even with a "Scotch Lock" connector. Relay is wired directly from the battery & then to power center. The aux power center has the driving lights, the volt meter & the helmet cam power port connected to it as 3 separate blade fused circuits. However, I was blowing up stators long before I added the power center & it changed absolutely nothing regarding the stator life after installation. I also added a second switched ground circuit to the cooling fan for manual operation.
My volt gauge shows 14.5 volts with everything but the driving lights on. When I add those to the mix, the volts drop to about 13+. If the cooling fan, brake light & turn signal are on, the voltage slowly drops to between 11.5 ~ 12 @ idle. It quickly recovers to 13+ volts when I get moving again & the brake light / turn signal are off.
This is the last post I plan to make on the subject - unless this stator fries in less than 3000 miles. I'm getting tired of typing the story over & over again & again.
H2O
H2, to make life easier, in the future use Control C and then Control V. Old school DOS. Cheers.
I think H2O uses typing the whole thing every time he has to think about it as a form of therapy.
H2O, My too many years in elctronics tells me you are probably causing your own problems by running 2- 55w driving lights. Now are surely overtaxing the charging system. That means even w/o the brake on you are required to pump ~ 300 watts. Guess what, you most likely don't have 300 watts available most of the time. You are not doing yourself any favors using the driving lights. Just run your hi-beam in the day and get a quality quartz bulb. I have a Venture w/420w alternator for 20 years. I can only run my 55w pair when on the hiway. Otherwise the voltage really drops. Just so you know...my stator in the Venture is perfect. I suspect your problem got worse w/driving lights installed. As my voltage never drops as low as yours. TAKE THE DAMN DRIVING LIGHTS OFF..... ::)
If I remember correctly, there are a few things to think about:
1) The rectifier/regulator draws maximum power from the stator, anything it doesn't use it dumps to ground (heat at the regulator)
2) Drawing maximum power from the stator means it always has maximum heat dissipation in the stator for a given RPM
3) The maximum power that can be produced depends on the size of the magnets, the placement of the magnets, and the RPM.
Can we agree on the above?
If so, then why does putting additional load on the far side of the R/R cause more power to be drawn from the stator at a given RPM?
Oh yes, please feel free to get as technical as you need, I can keep up in that area.
Brian
The driving lights made no difference in stator life. Same with as without. Why would I have gone through stators at the same rate before adding the lights as I do after I added them? THE LIGHTS STAY ON! They are not the problem. I will eventually swap to 35w bulbs, but 1000 mile stator life was happening for several stators before the lights were added.
Brian is correct - As I've been led to understand, the stator puts out full power all the time, no matter what power requirements are being requested. Trying to use all the available power from the stator puts no extra strain on the system. When the max power is asked for, nothing really changes except that little or no power is shunted to ground or converted to heat, the battery charges slower & the R/R has a bit less to do.
I've done all I can for now. I'll just wait until I get past the magic 1000 miles on the bike and see if the stator is still running. That should happen on the next ride - whenever that may be.
I appreciate the help, everyone here has had suggestions over the years. I've tried them all & nothing has changed. I tried using no more power than the basics on the bike require. I tried using all the available wattage. I tried using some extra wattage. I tried soldering connections. I examined the wiring harness. I tried different brands of stators (including OEM). The only thing that made a difference was when I got a second new R/R (aftermarket type - not OEM) that gave me 1500 miles before the regulating side died. I put the old R/R back in & voila - another 1000 miles & the stator died. That stator went 2500 miles - a 150% improvement WITH THE LIGHTS. It was most likely (98.987456872682287% sure) the old R/R. I installed a new aftermarket type R/R @ the same time as the last stator. If I can get 4500 - 5000 miles out of a stator, I'll call it good. That will get me through 2 or 3 years of riding.
H2O
As H2O has stated(so many times that he must be getting tired of it) additional load on the electrical system does not cause extra burden on the stator. Its output is the same, approx 22 amps. The only downside to additional load is reduced battery charging capability. No problem on shorter(less than 300-500 miles) runs and nightly battery charges.
The stator insulation eventually deteriorates until it can no longer keep the vibration of the windings from going into ground contact, shorting and burning the stator out. (I'm getting a little tired of having to repeat my explanation too).
I think the idea of protecting the windings' insulation from the sharp angles of the stator chassis has got to be a major step in the right direction.
Thanks guys.... Wisdom has spread... your threads are appreciated..
'rhpaw' says I need the install my spare stator on Sept 17, before we head for New Mexico.
I feel confident after going over and over it.
I think that H2O is a magnetic personalitiy and maybe needs to ride with us to Roswell to find out the "Truth" ::)
It's sort of funny - I have no problem with wearing a wristwatch (other than I find them uncomfortable after a few minutes) but I have had charging issues with nearly every vehicle I've ever owned. I think I'm just snakebit when it comes to electrical power generation.
I'd love to go to Roswell with y'all, but I'll be in the panhandle of Oklahoma for the week enjoying some very dark skies, taking some pretty astrophotos & otherwise hobnobbing with some of the more famous amateur astronomers @ the Okie-Tex Star Party. I've heard some wonderful reports about that party & am really looking forward to the experience. Six nights of seeing the Milky Way stretching from horizon to horizon (weather permitting). My cousin will be there with his 16 inch scope & will be one of the featured speakers. Not sure if he'll be talking about imaging Arp Galaxies or doing his "Dermal Philosophical Telescope" which allows attendees to 'touch the light of far away worlds'.
H2O
H2O, why do you think you can defy the laws of physics? On a good day, you have a 280w alternator. You have a constant load near that and more ALL the time. How come you think your Vision can run more electrical load than an '82 Gold Wing which has a 350w alternator. Which is another(same vintage) bike known to burn stators when overloaded w/2 driving lights. WHEN did your 1000 mile/stator loss , start??? Have you had this issue since the day you bought this 'V' ? Everything has it's limits. Live within them. Your voltmeter does not tell the whole story of how the system is working. Take the lights off and start over. If you don't want to believe what I am saying. You are bound to keep repeating your results. PS- don't buy chinese parts.
Jason, could you answer my questions please (see about 6 messages above.) My understanding of the physics obviously does not jibe with your understanding of the physics...
Brian, I agree mostly what you say 1 & 3. But the R/R does not draw in the typical sense. It's simply is a passive diode fullwave bridge rectifying filter. Changing A/C to DC and regulating the DC to approx. 14-15v. If you give it 20vac it works with that ....give it 100vac it works with that. The size of the diodes determine it MAX. input it can handle. these old style units= MOre input the hotter it gets. The draw is from the load of the entire bikes electrical load. My Venture R/R is the same design but bigger...bigger internals(diodes). If you do exceed any component's design. Requesting too much output(watts/amps) or exceeding design input(oversized stator) ...things break.
Quote from: jasonm. on August 18, 2009, 04:47:10 PM
The size of the diodes determine it MAX. input it can handle. these old style units= MOre input the hotter it gets. The draw is from the load of the entire bikes electrical load.
So this is basically saying that the heat problem is in the R/R, not the stator, correct? (which is what I have argued all along).
Of course, if your R/R should drop down its internal resistance due to a short, then a fair portion of the power dissipation will occur in the stator, but what would likely happen is an open circuit due to the heat. That makes the stator circuitry open, which means no power, correct?
(http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Images/STatorExtraWire.gif)
Is this diagram agreed to be accurate?
And your correct the stator will supply the maximum current and therefor maximum power when it views the outside world (in our case the RR) as a short.
My stator issues started @ 4500 miles. I replaced BOTH the stator & R/R at that time. Was not running any extra electrical loads at all. None, zip, nada (typing again). I went through three or four stators before trying to use more of the electricity from the stator. Always with the same results. (this is like deja-vu all over again & again - think I could type this while unconscious now). The lights were an addition two or three stators ago. They made no difference.
What did improve stator life was a change of the R/R (haven't I typed this many times before?) Me last stator endured 2500 miles or 2.5 times longer than any since the OEM stator died. The R/R lasted 1500 of those miles before it stopped regulating. The stator was still fine. I put the previous R/R on and got 1000 additional miles out of the stator before it died. (wow, this sounds familiar)
I now have another new R/R and stator installed at the same time and all is working well. The last new R/R had occasional short voltage spikes about 3 months after installation. This one is showing none of those and the volt gauge runs rock steady.
I appreciate the help, but as I've stated before, I am about 98.09823469348659348076023876520387% sure the problem is solved - or at least much improved. By the way, the first defective R/R was a Japanese unit - not Chinese (which I agree is likely even worse).
I have charging system gremlins that love nearly every vehicle I've ever owned & always present an 'odd' problem. Once the failures are found, they are of the "hmmmmmm - I've never heard of that before" type when I discuss them with knowledgable people. As an example, I've now had two R/Rs that were faulty from new. Anyone could have received them, but I was the lucky one.
H2O
Ok...H2O...have you tried changing the flywheel? There maybe an issue w/ the magnets. Also to those out their saying max. power delivered all the time. Correct term is the R/R only gives "Max of what's available". NOT max all the time. Otherwise you'd have max. watts/amps available at idle. And we all know that is NOT possible due to the low rpms. That diagram is pretty much simplified as accurate. There is more to the regulator.
The current draw on a stator that is being regulated within its design limits will be dropping a constant 22 Amps to ground at all times whether its at the switching transistors or through fused loads. When the load increases to the level that the regulator can not maintain its lowest regulated DC output voltage then the stator output AC voltage will rise in an attempt to bring the regulator back within its regulatory range, this increase in stator voltage will cause maximum unregulated current to flow to ground (Load current plus current to ground through switching transistors). This increased AC input Voltage will push max Amps through the loads and load resistance will decrease until heat buildup reachs a point that the weak link (R/R or stator) will fail. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it. BDC
Quote from: jasonm. on August 18, 2009, 07:26:46 PM
NOT max all the time.
Yup, which is why I specified max for a given RPM... ;)
Brian
I'm fairly sure, although I can't find the proper theory behind this, that the voltage that the stator puts out is only related to RPM, windings, and magnetic field. I don't think I have any text books on this, and I dug out some old notes and thats not helping me. If I'm correct on this the AC voltage of the stator will not rise, although if the resistance of the stator load decreases the current will increase. Which will at some point burn the stator out. I think h2olawyer is correct in thinking that the RR is directly related to the life of the stator, since its the bottom line on how much current draw there will be.
Quote from: Re-Vision on August 18, 2009, 07:32:14 PM
When the load increases to the level that the regulator can not maintain its lowest regulated DC output voltage then the stator output AC voltage will rise in an attempt to bring the regulator back within its regulatory range
Quote from: thisandthat on August 18, 2009, 08:03:27 PM
I'm fairly sure, although I can't find the proper theory behind this, that the voltage that the stator puts out is only related to RPM, windings, and magnetic field.
Power is basically what is produced by the stator, and the maximum power available is based on the RPM, the number of windings, the number of poles, the magnets, and how close the magnets are (basically defining the magnetic field, the amount of wire passing through that field, and the speed it passes through the field.)
The voltage is set by the regulator, and then you can use the P = IV equation to get the amount of current. Draw more than that current and your voltage will go down (because power is a constant for a given RPM).
The maximum power than can be produced for a given generator is when the internal resistance in the stator is equal to the external resistance. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_theorem ) That would also produce the most heat in the stator, since it has to absorb 1/2 that power internally, (most likely in the form of heat). When the external resistance becomes higher, more of the power is dissipated in the external resistance (it's in series with the internal resistance) so the actual heat absorption of the stator would drop.
If you had the old buzzer type of regulator (they use a spring-tensioned electro-magnetic buzzer to open and close to keep a constant voltage) then the internal power would rise and fall according to the close and open of the regulator. But those are really noisy and push a lot of electrical noise into the lines.
That's basically the physics I'm going by, and I admit it's been a while since I looked at this stuff. I'm willing to have someone show me the error of my ways.
Brian, I think we could gain some useful information if you and H2o swapped bikes for a season or two.
1. If H2o's bike fails its probably H2o's fault.
2. If Brians bike fails it surely will be something H2o has done to it.
3. If both bikes fail then it clearly indicates H2o as the likely source of failures
4. If neither one fails then this would point to Brians doing the right thing and the outside chance that H2o's original bike is a lemon. BDC
Brian, believe you are correct in all you say at 19:03 if applied to a non-regulated system or a system thats operated within its design parameters (22 Amps). I'm not certain that everything I've said is correct but I was applying it to a system that has problems in regulation due to phase resistances or excessive fused loads. BDC
techno genius's,
you all know your going to need one.
Right now there is one chance in 11 that someone will get a new stator for $25.
Some guys have bought 2 ea tickets, that is really good odds.. you better get in on this...
this is my last attempt to the count down....about 100 hours away.
http://sidbid.com/raffle/ the good because!
What ever are you going to do, when this site dis-quappears? (a new word)
Quote from: jasonm. on August 18, 2009, 07:26:46 PM
Ok...H2O...have you tried changing the flywheel? There maybe an issue w/ the magnets. Also to those out their saying max. power delivered all the time. Correct term is the R/R only gives "Max of what's available". NOT max all the time. Otherwise you'd have max. watts/amps available at idle. And we all know that is NOT possible due to the low rpms. That diagram is pretty much simplified as accurate. There is more to the regulator.
It was 98.93846723894729386734986789672938% surely the R/R!
H
2O
So, what's the margin of error on that :-)
Quote from: Brian Moffet on August 19, 2009, 10:13:07 AM
So, what's the margin of error on that :-)
+/- 97% :D
Unless my stator dies again soon, I think I'm going to limit myself to reading, but not replying to, posts about my stator. I'll still give info to those having questions or problems of their own, but I am sick & tired of running down the history & procedures I've been through to try to get mine figured out (which I really believe I've discovered & fixed).
H
2O
just copy and paste, when the question comes up.
I'm pretty sure that voltage is constant for a given RPM, thats Faraday's law in play.
-d(magnetic flux)
EMF = ------------------
dt
Since the magnets are constant, its just rate of which the field lines are cut by the coil. Something along the lines of EMF = Number of coils * Area of coil * magnetic field strength * sin (wt), might be a bit different because thats for a fixed magnet rotating coil.
The way I see it working is...
The rectifier...rectifies the three AC signals from the stator, giving a rippled DC voltage, somewhere around 40-70 volts depending on the RPM of the motor.
I'm not sure, but I'd imagine that this is a switching regulator (solid state not mechanical), so could use a pulse width to determine the amount of time it allows the 40-70 volts to get through then lets a capacitor and possibly the battery to smooth it. Depending on the RPM of the motor the pulse width would change (on more often for low RPM off more often for high RPM), I think this would effectively be your resistance of the regulator and as you said the higher the resistance (the more often the switch is closed), the less power is dissipated across the stator. Also the amount of current drawn would be dependent on the load from the bike. If a lot of current is needed its going to take more power to turn the magnet then if the bike is only drawing a little current. Ok everything has stopped making sence, I'm going to go get some coffee. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to understand on how this works, I figure if we can somehow fixed the vision stator problem we will walk down the street an people will whisper are names with aw and reverence.
After writing this I see how much guessing there is. Has anyone looked at voltage vs RPM and current vs rpm on this bike? After mine is running I should try to find some nice big amp meters and figure this one out.
Quote from: Brian Moffet on August 18, 2009, 08:29:56 PM
Power is basically what is produced by the stator, and the maximum power available is based on the RPM, the number of windings, the number of poles, the magnets, and how close the magnets are (basically defining the magnetic field, the amount of wire passing through that field, and the speed it passes through the field.)
The voltage is set by the regulator, and then you can use the P = IV equation to get the amount of current. Draw more than that current and your voltage will go down (because power is a constant for a given RPM).
The maximum power than can be produced for a given generator is when the internal resistance in the stator is equal to the external resistance. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_theorem ) That would also produce the most heat in the stator, since it has to absorb 1/2 that power internally, (most likely in the form of heat). When the external resistance becomes higher, more of the power is dissipated in the external resistance (it's in series with the internal resistance) so the actual heat absorption of the stator would drop.
Yes, for a given RPM, voltage is constant, current is based on the draw on the stator. I was combining rectifier/regulator stuff. My bad.
Quote from: thisandthat on August 19, 2009, 06:50:02 PM
a switching regulator (solid state not mechanical), so could use a pulse width to determine the amount of time it allows the 40-70 volts to get through then lets a capacitor and possibly the battery to smooth it.
I think this might be incorrect. I don't think we have a switching regulator. I believe that the regulator will draw full power all the time from the rectifier, and dump what is not used to ground. A switching regulator would not draw full power all the time. This basically means that the stator is always producing full power for a given RPM. (and a constant loss to the engine for a given RPM.) I guess one could attach a current meter to one of the stator lines and see if it changes as you add or subtract load. I guess it could be switching and either switch between the bike electrics and a resistor, but I'm not sure about that.
Probably easier to attach the R/R to a 3-phase generator and see if it takes more power to maintain an RPM when you add or reduce load...
Addendum:
Without knowing exactly how the voltage is regulated, and what the details of the circuitry are, I'm going to stick with the thinking that the power is mostly dissipated in the R/R unit. I can see of several design problems that would make the power shift to the stator (shunt resistors being too small, for example, might cause the stator to take up more load than it was designed for). That's the big question at this point, and one I do not know the answer to.
Brian
Unfortunately, when I had driving lights, I never noticed a drop in power when I turned them on (110 watt total) but since 1 watt is 1/746 HP, I doubt I would notice that... ;D
While sitting on my bicycle exercising (a very close mechanical analogy) I have convinced myself that I was incorrect. There is a direct correlation between the amount of current you are drawing from the system and the heat generated inside the stator.
Brian
Once long ago I worked for an engineer who designed and built transformers, he told me that Texas Instruments would still be building computers if they had came to him for their power transformers. TI's transformers were not precision wound so a short that would normally cause the loss of a single winding could now cause the loss of several windings and create enough heat to start fires. They quit manufacturing PC's because of this. I don't think the stators are precision wound, so a single short could potentially take out several turns on a pickup coil. Ideally the insulating varnish or epoxy should be applied under vacuum to eliminate air bubbles. Poorly wound windings with air bubbles might contribute to failures. I think it was one of the Kiwi's who said when we have a battery, R/R, or stator failure we should check all three because when the weak link fails it can also do serious damage to the others which may in turn become the new weak link in a repaired electric system. BDC
I hope we all agree on this. The stator does not "DRAW" power or voltage. It is excited by the spinning magnets in the flywheel. So the stator is(generator) a pusher of power depeanding on RPMs...like a drug dealer on the corner. Your bike is the addict. Needing his/her fix...amps or watts depenting on how you look at P=I x E. Now, the addict needs more drugs(amps) to stay going because he has gotten FAT...gained 50 pounds(accessories added). But there comes a point when the addict cannot get enough drugs(amps) or gains too much weight to satisfy his needs and gets "the shakes". Then it gets worse and he/she dies ,due to lack of supply(watts) or the user shoots the supplier for holding back...dead stator.......FYI, you change the word drug to food... ;D
Quote from: jasonm. on August 20, 2009, 05:52:09 PM
The stator does not "DRAW" power or voltage.
I certainly hope I didn't imply this, it was never my intent.
Brian
WHat I should have been clear about is the PUSHER or the user dies...Pusher(stator) 'cause the user gets a gun and shoots him/her or the user dies . Both cases result of lack of drugs. Any way you look at it > IT's supply and demand issue.