I want to convert my steering bearings from ball and race style separates to a one piece roller style. Does anybody know what dimensions I need to specify in order to get the correct replacement bearing size?
:) As far as I'm aware, they are not available over-the-counter at bearing distributor's...However, here is the supplier of the one I use on all my rebuilds...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Yamaha-XZ550-1982-1983-Steering-Stem-Bearings-Kit_W0QQitemZ120531822910QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c1041a93e
8).......TIGER....... 8)
I can confirm Tiger's assessment of these bearings not being available at your common bearing outlets. I tried to get some from NAPA, no luck. The link from Tiger is the way to go.
Ben
Any motorcycle shop with a Tucker-Rocky catalog can order you stem bearings.
Ken G.
That's better, two taper bearings are worth $25 but not $50, because I'm sure the units only cost $4 or $5 each, you know?
Any suggested supplier for wheel and swingarm bearings?
Thanks!
Quote from: Jimustanguitar on February 27, 2010, 11:29:31 PM
....Any suggested supplier for wheel and swingarm bearings?
Thanks!
...You mean like these...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Yamaha-XZ550-1982-to-1986-Front-Wheel-Bearings-Kit_W0QQitemZ120531891915QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c1042b6cb
...and yes, this supplier does rear wheel bearings, fork seals, fork dust seal covers and brake pads for Vision's...and at decent prices :o The swing arm bearing, I don't know... :-\
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Very cool, thank you... I didn't get a chance to explore that seller yet because I've been working and only have the net with my phone, so it's tedious to do much more than email, you know?
Thanks again, you made my life easy... Now answer my gas cap question!
Just joking, thanks again.
I did some research on PYRIMID Bearings, and they have been in the business for a long time. As far as I can figure the are in Europe and I got a feeling they are attached to the P&H Heavy Equipment group and they make bearings for cranes, shovel and heavy duty applications. P&H makes cranes, and shovels and I think is Dutch. (Harnishfarger??)
They look good to me. I ordered a set of steering head replacements for my R75. The set I recieved look to be of good quality.
Tapered stem bearings are a definite improvement over OEM, but are very touchy to get adjusted correctly.....at least on my Vision. Following procedure in the manual is fine, but after tightening the stem bolt, it gets even tighter, so I had to back off the lock rings a little at a time to get the right adjustment.
Still didn't ride right though.....was kinda pulling to the left and would get a wobble occasionally.
After reading up on this, some say the swing-arm bearings contribute to what seems to be a front end problem.
I put the bike up on the lift....and there was at least 1/4" to 3/8" play from side-to-side in the swing-arm.
Decided to tear it down yesterday and it all came apart very easily. No rust, no corrosion.
Pivot shaft came right out, bushing slid out, and needles looked great. Everything still had grease on it.
No noticeable wear from the needles on the bushing.
Only thing I did notice was some wear on the 2 thrust washers on the inside inner edge.
So I turned them over for a new surface, and re-assembled everything.
I don't have a vernier to check for end play, but if I need to disassemble again, I'll get one, along with new bearings.
With torque at 60 ft lbs, I managed to get one extra hex turn for the lock ring on the pivot shaft and it all tightened right up.
No play at all by feel, will test ride later today.....
I don't have a manual.
Does anyone happen to know the torque specs for the steering head?
Don't know that there is such a torque spec. The usual plan is the tighten the bearings until there is just the very very slightest resistance in moving the handlebars from side to side.
Haynes says tighten lower ring nut until snug but not binding when moving handle bars from side to side, another place says tighten until snug and backoff a little. Yamaha manual says tighten lower ring nut until tight but does not bind when moving forks from stop to stop. Steerung stem bolt should be torqued to 94 ft-lbs BDC
The torque specs are for the original ball bearings & don't apply to roller bearings which are capable of much higher loads, so they must be installed, tightened, checked, ridden, checked, etc...
Also, I'm not sure how many people know how to properly pack a roller bearing. smearing grease on the outside & races isn't enough:
the proper procedure is to put a lump of wheel bearing grease at the base of your fingers & 'scratch' the bearing over your palm, picking up a little grease each time & forcing it into the rollers 'till it comes out the top. turn the bearing a few degrees & repeat.
it's messy, but the right way to do it.
you can also purchase a bearing packer, probably run $25...
--Lucky
Quote from: Lucky on April 21, 2010, 06:43:24 AM
The torque specs are for the original ball bearings & don't apply to roller bearings which are capable of much higher loads, so they must be installed, tightened, checked, ridden, checked, etc...
--Lucky
That's what I'm asking. I intend to inspect and grease my originals if they look OK.
Don't do that. if you are going to all that trouble, just put in a new set of tapered bearings. It improves feedback and more importantly makes the ride so much more predictable.
The torque setting I gave is generic for 22mm bolt holding tripletree together and the steering stem bolt should have no influence as to the type of bearing installed. BDC
Quote from: Raj1988 on April 21, 2010, 11:50:20 AM
Don't do that. if you are going to all that trouble, just put in a new set of tapered bearings. It improves feedback and more importantly makes the ride so much more predictable.
My front end feels fine. I just rebuilt my forks though, and now I have a little click on hard braking. Often that can be steering head, so I thought I clean grease and check it because I also have read about a Vision " front end click" so I'm not gonna go crazy over it.
The thing to check is to get it on the centerstand, find a fat dude to sit on the back of the bike, or ratchet tie down to something fixed in the ground so the front end is just hanging.
Dollars to dumplings if when you lightly turn the forks left and right they'll hang dead center. This is because the very hard ball bearings pounded a little dent right in the middle where the forks spent 25 years for the most part.
It sucks, and it is a pain in the ass, but new head bearings solve alot of handling issues that pop up later.
Actually Inane, the center indention isn't caused by "pounding", but rather by the narrowly focused wear resulting from the virtually continuous micro steering corrections that are made to keep the bike travelling on a straight line. Think of it as continuous micro countersteering.
Quote from: Re-Vision on April 21, 2010, 12:09:00 AM
Haynes says tighten lower ring nut until snug but not binding when moving handle bars from side to side, another place says tighten until snug and backoff a little. Yamaha manual says tighten lower ring nut until tight but does not bind when moving forks from stop to stop. Steerung stem bolt should be torqued to 94 ft-lbs BDC
excuse me that spec is wrong...it's 34 ft/lbs
Quote from: QBS on April 21, 2010, 06:29:33 PM
Actually Inane, the center indention isn't caused by "pounding", but rather by the narrowly focused wear resulting from the virtually continuous micro steering corrections that are made to keep the bike travelling on a straight line. Think of it as continuous micro countersteering.
Meh, focused points of wear/pounding, either way theres indentations the balls sit in and it makes for a bad handling setup.
Quote from: jasonm. on April 21, 2010, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Re-Vision on April 21, 2010, 12:09:00 AM
Haynes says tighten lower ring nut until snug but not binding when moving handle bars from side to side, another place says tighten until snug and backoff a little. Yamaha manual says tighten lower ring nut until tight but does not bind when moving forks from stop to stop. Steerung stem bolt should be torqued to 94 ft-lbs BDC
excuse me that spec is wrong...it's 34 ft/lbs
Heh. The last bike I did this on was a Venture, and it was 85 ft/lbs, though it seems to be assembled in the opposite manner to this bike.
Jason. I was definitely wrong about steering head bolt torque values because I read the values for a nut rather than a bolt. Where did you get the torque value of 34 ft/lbs. If I were to extrapolate from the table I was looking at, would expect a higher torque than 94 ft/lbs. BDC
If you had a manual you would know. I suggest you get one. My Yamaha manual has saved me many times. STEERING stem bolt is actually 39 ft/lbs. This is a bolt. Not a nut. Thus torque figures are not the same as a bolt.
I have a Yamaha and a Haynes manual and I gave the same amount of wrong answers that you did (One). BDC
I have rarely found important specs far off in the OEM service manual. I have found in My Venture OEM manual. One place says to torque the front axle 2 ft/lbs more on one page vs. another. But that is nothing on something needing 75ft/lbs or so. Haynes and Clymers have more errors than Yamaha.
Quote from: RedRocket on April 21, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
My front end feels fine. I just rebuilt my forks though, and now I have a little click on hard braking. Often that can be steering head, so I thought I clean grease and check it because I also have read about a Vision " front end click" so I'm not gonna go crazy over it.
The clicking could be your forks. I thought is was my steering head bearings so replaced them. Made the world of difference to handling - a highly recommended upgrade, but didn't cure the click.
There is a fix described here in German. I am about to tear down my forks to install air caps from an XZ400, so will look at the circlip then.
http://www.xz550.de/tp3/fileadmin/xz-tipps/xz-das_knacken_in_der_gabel.pdf (http://www.xz550.de/tp3/fileadmin/xz-tipps/xz-das_knacken_in_der_gabel.pdf)
Expect to have to tighten tapered roller-bearings in your steering neck every 300-400 miles. I've had them already in or installed in four different bikes. Only in a 1975 CB400F have they not needed retightening. So I'm not sure they're worth the trouble. Maybe you could just replace your present ball-bearing ones. Also, the All Balls brand, made in China, have tolerances that are off so. Expect to have to take some emery cloth to the steering neck to get them to fit or take them to a machine shop to have them turn down the neck.
Tapered bearings RARELY need tightening. I replaced mine in my 800# Venture after 70k miles. Put a couple thousand on last year. No tightening needed.Thus your 300-400 mile spec. means something is " a miss" on the cheap bearings being used .
Truth, Jason speaks.
I don't agree that tapered-rollers won't need tightening every 300-400 miles. The stock ones did on my 1980 Suzuki GS550 and the aftermarket ones of excellent quality do on my 1980 XS650 as well. The service mgr at the local Honda Yamaha dealer agrees with me because his experience has been the same. Only on the 1975 CB400F have the bearings stayed tight, but Honda uses a different tightening mechanism. It remains to be seen how they'll fare on my 1982 Vision, which isn't on the road yet. I honestly can't say there has been any difference in steering, no matter what Joe Minton said in his famous "Minton Mods" to the XS650, or any other bike he has recommended upgrades to. If you don't do wheelies, good old ball-bearings should be fine.
:) I have had tapered steering head bearings in my Vision for several years which equals several thousand miles of riding and have found them to be a lot better than the oem stock ball bearings/races. They give me more feed back and the steering feels more precise. I have not found a need to re torque them as yet.
I have also used the same bearing supplier/bearings for ALL of my 19 Vision rebuilds and on other Vision's that needed them changed, with no negative feedback from the owners at all.
Oh, and I don't do wheelies ;D 8)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
QuoteAlso, the All Balls brand, made in China, have tolerances that are off so.
I put these in my Vision this spring with no installation problems and a set in my GPz 500 last summer also with no problems. It's been my experience tapered neck bearings last longer and require less maintenance than balls.