I finally had the time, motivation and decent weather outside so I wouldn't suffocate in the garage to get started. I need to do a quick search on here for which color loctite to use putting it back together but other'n that it's gone almost distubingly easy. Here's the pics so far:
Cardboard panel with the bolts. I had the one wire holder and the copper washer, the pic in Hayne's showed what looked like another wire holder or two but don't have those.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3515.jpg)
YICS cover and peek screw removed. I need a new o-ring for the peek screw. :P
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3516.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3517.jpg)
Clutch lever removed.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3518.jpg)
Looky, stator! Far as I can tell still looks alright after 2-3k miles so far *knock on wood*. Not sure what he did to the plug, if it had one. One of these days I might find out but it's working for now so...
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3519.jpg)
Starter clutch/rotor.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3520.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3521.jpg)
It came out with only turning the breaker bar about 270 degrees with a good thwap each 90 degrees. From what I've read that's exceedingly easy. Also only had two rollers pop out an only one hit the floor. Took all the springs and such out after. Note the lack of bolt heads.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3522.jpg)
Springs, caps and clutch rollers.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3523.jpg)
Factory 'peened'.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3526.jpg)
Apparently someone, factory or otherwise, had rotated that cover. They even gave one of those corners a slight bend to keep it from moving back. When I straightened that out and moved it back the bolts would move in their sockets but it did take a little effort to be able to unscrew 'em. The cover rotation seems like a good back-up to keep 'em from coming out.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3527.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3528.jpg)
Clutch removed.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3530.jpg)
Keep an eye on the washer in the middle. Mine didn't fall off but it could do so easily if not being held on by oil, etc.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3529.jpg)
Back of the clutch. I couldn't tell any cracks or broken parts looking it over, hopefully I didn't miss anything. The underside of that cover was scratched up some but I'd reckon it's from it being rotated &/or the bolt heads rubbing against it.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3531.jpg)
And here's my stop point. I've ground down the first of the three replacement bolts but didn't want to go further without a second opinion. Is this far enough or do I need to go down to the next thread? Thanks.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3533.jpg)
Note to those doing it who aren't too experienced such as myself. Paper towels are obviously not a good choice to keep the gears from moving. I found out neither are chamois cloths. :P It did the job well enough but the teeth did move some and sheared off a bit of the fabirc. It was a royal pain getting the little pieces and such left in the teeth out. Use a cotton rag or something better than chamois. Also today was a reminder why I tend to like getting decent tools. The center bolt on the puller just would NOT thread through. I even tried holding the breaker bar between my legs and seeing if it just had a rough spot. Took the center piece and center bolt back to Sears and they opened another they had on the shelf (thankfully). We tried the old bolt on the new centerpiece. no-go. Tried the new bolt on both centerpieces and it worked fine. Apparently they made my bolt too thick. So they gave me the new bolt and I was on my way without anymore problems. I didn't have any concerns about needing one with a higher rating but those with stubborn bits might.
Quote from: Aelwulf on September 25, 2008, 09:09:51 PM
Apparently someone, factory or otherwise, had rotated that cover. They even gave one of those corners a slight bend to keep it from moving back. When I straightened that out and moved it back the bolts would move in their sockets but it did take a little effort to be able to unscrew 'em. The cover rotation seems like a good back-up to keep 'em from coming out.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3527.jpg)
Hmm. I wonder if this was a change or a recommendation by Yamaha at one point. Were the bolts tight when you pulled them out with this "mod"?
Brian
I used a lead wheel weight , to jam the gears for removal of the rotor/starter clutch. just inspect for and small fragments of lead stuck to the gears and be sure to remove any found.
I believe the sheet metal plate slips and gets out of place.
Quote from: Brian Moffet on September 25, 2008, 09:17:56 PM
Hmm. I wonder if this was a change or a recommendation by Yamaha at one point. Were the bolts tight when you pulled them out with this "mod"?
Brian
They jiggled at a touch but they didn't just screw right out, I had to put some twist behind 'em to get 'em to turn and keep turning. So yeah, I'd say they were tight in that it would've taken a fair bit to get 'em to start backing out.
Quote from: Aelwulf on September 25, 2008, 09:09:51 PM
And here's my stop point. I've ground down the first of the three replacement bolts but didn't want to go further without a second opinion. Is this far enough or do I need to go down to the next thread? Thanks.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3533.jpg)
that's plenty long enough, in fact perfect if you choose to do it "my way"
some folks, would make then slightly shorter, use red lock tite, and peen them in several places substantially better then the OEM "punch" marks
what I do is leave them slightly long, and using a dremel, cut cross patterns on top of the bolts.
Then after they are loctited and torqued, I use a punch in the center of the cross to slightly spread the quartered bolt
So long as I'm in the 'non-dangerous' neighborhood works for me, thanks. :)
Looks like I'll be doing that job again Friday when I change rotors with Tractor. ::) Like law or medicine - I'll practice until I finally get it right. :P
H2O
:) Looking good... 8)
Once I have removed the left side engine cover, I put a rag into the oil hole just below the flywheel, before removing the flywheel, etc. Like RickG, I use a lead wheel weight to "jam" the gearing. RED thread locker is what you need for the three Soc' head cap screws and once torqued down I peen each one at three points *
* *
8).......TIGER....... 8)
I was going to try the cross method since I tend to suck at punching but like an idiot I waited until after they were in. Yeah, doesn't really work that way. :P So they're in and tri-punched, although not as 'pretty' as Lucky's. Idjit me also tried to over-torque 'em-saw the one on the picture of the whole gear assembly and thought it referred to these, not the center bolt it likely refers to. However try as I might they wouldn't tighten more than 1/4-1/2 turn past hand-tight (thankfully I don't have a vice in this case lol). So they should be around 14 ft-lb based off that, maybe a smidge over but not anything I'd be worried about.
On to the current question: any of you remember if the flywheel sits flush with the center bolt hole or does it hang over a little? I have it on but it doesn't want to slide flush. It figures the one thing I need a pic of is the one I didn't take. Just want to make sure I'm not trying to force it to do something it shouldn't. Thanks. Ff that's good as is then just need to clean the old gasket crud off the stator side of the cover and see about sealing things up after torquing on the center bolt.
I'm going by memory here (I don't have anything open right now) but I believe the flywheel sits a little proud of the crankshaft end. This probably is to insure the proper pressure to keep it from shifting.
Thanks. :) Put it on and torqued it. Cleaned the crud off the stator side from the old gasket. Placed the gasket I've had sitting for a while, looks like the holes might be off a bit. for most it'd probably be fine, with me I'll likely jack it up so going to check into a cometic one. Discovered I already have a new oil filter (apparently ordered it off ebay with a throttle cable a short bit ago, was about $6 for the filter).
Updated pics:
After installing the bolts. Slid the cover over partially again just in case.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3534.jpg)
Peened bolts
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3535.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3536.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3537.jpg)
Cleaned up cover and overall pic with flywheel back on.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3538.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/Aelwulf1/1982%20Yamaha%20Vision%20550/Starter%20Clutch%20Bolts/CIMG3539.jpg)
So just to put on one gasket or the other, screw it all down again, put the clutch lever and cable back on, put in the oil filter and refill it.
Speaking of gaskets, from doing searching I gather red RTV? If I get the cometic none at all? Thanks again.
The Cometic gasket goes on bare naked. The OEM type (fiber), I use gasket shellac. Don't know why, but I do. I've put bare naked fiber gaskets on as well without any problems.
H2O
They look well peaned!!!! I use a coat of my favorite , Gask-a cinch , to keep the gasket in place and to facilitate a clean removal , next time. (there's always a next time ) It helps with sealing on gaskets that are being used the second time, too.
Just ordered a Cometic, should have it in about a week. :)
Edit: still waitin' on the gasket, should hopefully have it by Saturday. They took a while to get the paymnet processed, maybe they should switch to PayPal. :P Then it's gettin' filled with Shell Rotella T 5w-40 Synthetic like the Meanie just did and the truck's going to. I'm curious to see if any of the three act differently on it. So far the Meanie's doing well with it although I think it's a wee smidge over-full with the bit of Seafoam I added.
Shold've asked this before. :P For secure the wires and attempt to prevent oil leaks what do you guys use? A clear silicone RTV kinda stuff? Also what is best advised to attach the gaskets under the carbs to the engine? Same stuff or something different? I haven't been able to find any gask-a-cinch stuff around here yet. :P
I've never replaced the manifolds so I don't have an answer for what to use (if anything) at the carbs. As for the wires through the grommets in the side case, I prefer Yamabond 4 (Hondabond 4 or Threebond 1104 will work just as well). However, the latest stator replacement, I ended up using some GE silocone sealant since I couldn't find my Threebond. ::) No leaks (yet).
H2O
the OEM intake gaskets come already prepped w/Yamabond. A bit more won't hurt. DO NOT use any silicones(RTV) on the intake gasket. As for your starter clutch work. Nice...But did you use 12.9 grade bolts??? The 12.9 is always on the head somewhere as it is on the OEM bolts. Also did you absolutely clean the threads of the flywheel...w/brake clean or laquer thinner ?? Also clean the crank and flywheel mating surfaces as well. If you answer "yes" to all and used red loctite...your good. Where you wires come out. A good non-chlorinated Brake cleaner to get as much oil off those damn wires as possible. Then use a Permatex ultra grey or black. Suzuki sells a great silicone. Buut it's vey expensive--about $20 a tube. I torqued my clutch bolts a bit more than what the book 14 ft/lbs said. As these are the same size threads as what holds your brake rotors @14 ft/lbs on, and are set into the aluminum wheel. But the flywheel bolts are threaded into the cast steel flywheel. So I did mine more towards 20 ft/lbs.
Quote from: jasonm. on October 13, 2008, 06:24:59 PM
...The 12.9 is always on the head somewhere as it is on the OEM bolts.
??? Sorry Jasonm, but not always...
8).......TIGER....... 8)
I don't remember exactly what grade they are, but I do remember I got a stronger grade from Fastenal than OEM supposedly were be it the 8 or 10.9 or 12.9 or whichever. They've been sitting a while. :( I blew out the holes and wiped 'em down but didn't spray cleaner through no. The rest of it's definitely been wiped down a good bit. I knew when I put it in RTV wasn't the stuff I was thinking of but I couldn't get another term out of my head. :P Thanks. I'll have to see how much the stealership wants for the Yamabond if they carry it, I know they don't carry Yamacool anymore. >:( Or I'll see about finding the other stuff, it can be a project for this weekend.
I've gotta start proof-reading my posts more, that last one was bad. lol
Edit: got some Threebond. Put a bit too much most likely by the wire hole as it kept leaking out but hopefully once it sets it'll be good to go. Then I should finally have the cover back on and a little cleanup to do and this one'll be done.
Quote from: Tiger on October 13, 2008, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: jasonm. on October 13, 2008, 06:24:59 PM
...The 12.9 is always on the head somewhere as it is on the OEM bolts.
??? Sorry Jasonm, but not always...
8).......TIGER....... 8)
if it does not say 12.9...then you could not say it is...I have my originals..12.9 and the replacements from the hardware store say it as well. I like the piece of mind knowing if I grab anything at the hardware store that is special and I am paying for it...it best have proof it is...special...aka 10.9 or 12.9. FYI, LOOK at all the engine case allen bolts with a magnifying glass...all say 12.9 or should.
Quote from: jasonm. on October 22, 2008, 06:38:22 PM
Quote from: Tiger on October 13, 2008, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: jasonm. on October 13, 2008, 06:24:59 PM
...The 12.9 is always on the head somewhere as it is on the OEM bolts.
??? Sorry Jasonm, but not always...
8).......TIGER....... 8)
if it does not say 12.9...then you could not say it is...I have my originals..12.9 and the replacements from the hardware store say it as well. I like the piece of mind knowing if I grab anything at the hardware store that is special and I am paying for it...it best have proof it is...special...aka 10.9 or 12.9. FYI, LOOK at all the engine case allen bolts with a magnifying glass...all say 12.9 or should.
:) With all due respect Jason, WRONG!!! I sell hardware (for an American Company) for a living to a variety of end users: The military, Transport, Industrial, etc, etc. These are end users who demand to know, in most cases, specs...and rightly so. You DO NOT find many hardware manufacturer's, on-shore or off-shore, who put the specs on the heads of socket head cap screws. Ask your hardware store if his hardware is of North American or far East manufacture...in truth, he prob' won't know!!! FYI...Metric fasteners come in 8.8, 10.9 & 12.9. Soc' hd caps in 12.9 at 176,000 p.s.i. and to a lesser degree, 8.8 at 116,000 p.s.i...
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Tiger, I believe you. Yes, I suspect much is from the far east. But again, every "special bolt" I buy has the grade on it, otherwise I do not buy it. Main reason is, the stock at the hardware store can easily be mixed up. I believe the hardware store by me sells "Hillman" brand nuts and bolts. Right on the box is gives the grade. Then I look at the head of the bolt. If it matches, I buy it. No match, no sale. I trust no one but myself. AND even then , I double check everything I do. Yes, I am "slow" doing many things others rush through. I can take 20 minutes picking out a couple bolts at the store. That's me in a nutshell. "slow perfection". maybe that should be my mantra.
Ok, finally got the side panel on today. Hopefully the 1194 stuff will prevent any leaks out of the wire hole. I also got the rubber carb mounts put back on with the new gaskets. That just leaves the carbs for the engine area. Then the gas tank, get it painted with plastics to match, replace the fork springs and put in tapered head bearings (latter two waiting on a bike lift of some sort). Knock on wood it'll be set after those.
I do have something that may or may not be an issue. I turned the ignition on just to 'test' the shifter and clutch cable after putting 'em back on. First question is, does the shift pedal usually shift in & out of first without the clutch pulled in when the bike's not running & 2) is it typical for it to only shift between first and neutral after doing the starter clutch bolt fix? If neither of those are normal anyone have an idea what I screwed up? Thanks.
your shifting is not related to the clutch bolt fix.
because the engine isn't running, yes you can shift without the clutch...
AND because you're not moving... not getting past first/neutral/second is normal
Aight, that's what I was hopin'. Thanks. :)
Alewolf, before doing the steering bearings. Put the races in the freezer. Mine is -5F. And the warmer your garage the better. The races will shrink a tiny fraction. Often just enough to get them in easily. Also using a heat gun on the steering stem to expand will help as well. To seat the races. Use a brass punch tapping around the edge of the new race or find a large washer to sacrifice while using a steel punch and hammer. Also to seat the races ,perfectionists remove everything in the way and use a stack of washers the same size as the races along with a big strong c-clamp or big portable vise. SO you see, there are options.
Quote from: jasonm. on November 08, 2008, 12:30:50 PM
Alewolf, before doing the steering bearings. Put the races in the freezer. Mine is -5F. And the warmer your garage the better. The races will shrink a tiny fraction. Often just enough to get them in easily. Also using a heat gun on the steering stem to expand will help as well. To seat the races. Use a brass punch tapping around the edge of the new race or find a large washer to sacrifice while using a steel punch and hammer. Also to seat the races ,perfectionists remove everything in the way and use a stack of washers the same size as the races along with a big strong c-clamp or big portable vise. SO you see, there are options.
We didn't have a brass punch so drifted mine in using the old bearing top , a large socket a hammer and some gentle tapping. Made sure the head was clean and then lightly greased. No freezing/heating. The old bearing top was the perfect size to push evenly on all edges at once. Also used that same bearing top to seat the fork seals. The job was made easier with two, thanks Iain. I'm still finding ball bearings in the garden.
reason I say freeze it, is because sometimes the new race will scrap the stem and get a speck of metal and not allow the race to sit perfect...Ask me, I know from experience.
I've got a set of punches although not sure if I've any brass ones. I do have some large(r) washers sittin' around since I have to use one to get the oil cap off the Meanie. Freezer/heat gun option is doable, but no portable clamp. Unless I have a C-clamp, might be thinking of a large monkey wrench I have. :P Really wish I could get someplace I could put a small bench in with a clamp and all for such things. It can be done without though so first priority is getting the lift.