Starter Freewheeling.

[Billy Bob]

Ok Pulled the flywheel off, here's a pic of what I got.  The rollers and springs and spring keepers come flyin out, those 3 allen bolts on the back of flywheel were all loose, one wearing off a bit... Take a look at picture.  What do I have to do now to fix this?  tighten bolts and throw in?  How are the rollers and springs supposed to sit?  Anybody have a manual with some detail on what to do here?

Thanks, BOB

[ps2/bikevision]

bob, thats commonally refered to as the starter clutch fix. its pretty simple. go to hardware store and get some allen bolts 1-2 threads longer then the ones you have. it goes back together pretty easy. the spring goes in the hole. then the spring cap. then the roller. check the rollers for flat spots. then reinstall the clutch to the flywheel. use loc-tite on the bolts. then flip it all over and peen the ends of the bolts over, thats why you need longer bolts. once done you will not have to do it again.

[Night Vision]

do you have the other spring and the woodruff key?

[h2olawyer]

You may not be able to find bolts 1 ~ 2 threads longer than the OEM bolts.  Just get the next size longer along with a few nuts that fit the bolts.  Put 2 nuts on the bolt.  Use the top one as a marker for the correct length & the bottom nut as a jam nut so they don't move.  Grind the extra length of the bolt off, loosen the jm nut & remove the nuts from the bolt.  This preserves the threads and gives you the proper length bolt.

After getting the bolts to the correct length, a dremel tool with a cutting wheel or a small jeweler's file can be used to make a shallow "+" in the end of the bolt.  That makes peening them over just a little easier.

H₂O

[ps2/bikevision]

good call h20 i forgot about that. i used a small drill bit and drilled a little hole in the center to make it easier. then used a pointed punch. worked great.

[Billy Bob]

Yeah spring was still sitting in the flywheel, all parts are there.  Ok thanks guys, I'll try this out.

[Night Vision]

woodruff key also?

[Billy Bob]

Yes woodruff key is still sitting in the crank.  I took the starter clutch right off the flywheel and it has a big crack in it. Looks like a previous owner must have had a similar problem, all 3 bolts looked like they were center punched on the end. Also the flywheel looks and feels rough around where the rollers are spinning, should I try and smooth these grooves out with some emery cloth?  I assume I need a new starter clutch too.  Heres a pic.

[ps2/bikevision]

thats exactly what mine looked like. i was lucky and had a spare. it would be wise to smooth out the croves if you can. if not start looking for a new one. i dont know if you can reuse of fix that clutch though. id replace it.

[Billy Bob]

Well I have definately found the reason why it is freewheeling, the starter is in fact turning backwards.  I looked at the direction of the flywheel and it shows it is supposed to be spinning counter-clockwise, now the starter is turning the gear in behind the flywheel clockwise.  I have no idea how this is possible.  Either way the starter clutch fix is done, now to just figure out wtf is up with the starter.

[inanecathode]

Reverse polarity? Dont see how thats possible either...

[ps2/bikevision]

Who ever rebuilt the starter must of done it. They must of hooked up a wire wrong inside. take the back of the starter off and see if you can change the brushes. ill bet they hooked them up wrong. thats the only thing that would cause it.

[Lucky]

one brush is staked to the plate, the other has an insulated lead to the terminal.

perhaps something isn't stock.. brush plate, starter itself, etc. 

[ps2/bikevision]

thats what i was sorta thinking. Unless they cut the wire going to the pos stud and the one to the neg clip. The guy may of had to redo all the back of the starter. I guess the staerter needs tore apart and some pics taken so we can figure this one out.   side note, i tore my spare apart to see what could of gone wrong and its full of oil. Looks like ill br rebuilding that. And it bench tested good. I know my other one is junk. It was sumerged in water and mud after i rolled mt truck and it wont turn at all.

[Billy Bob]

Ok pulled starter out again, here's a pic of the wiring.

[louthepou]

Hey Billy Bob, good progress. I got a spare flywheel and starter clutch, willing to help!  ;D

Hey PS2, thanks for the tip: to keep my bike starter in good shape, don't roll my truck in mud. Check.

Lou

[Night Vision]

Ok pulled starter out again, here's a pic of the wiring.

the configuration looks good to me, nothing wired backwards there...

[ps2/bikevision]

yup the back is wired right. What does the front look like? There should be a gear on the end of the armeture with two planetary gears that go around it. I dont know how changing anything in the front would reverse it but it would at least tell us that we are indead working with a vision starter.

im starting to lean towards luckys view. Fix that starter clutch, make sure its a vision starter and then we will have to go from there. It was most likely the clutch all this time but if the starter is the right one and its turning the wrong way then we got some issues.

[Billy Bob]

I did the starter clutch fix, and just slipped it on the end of the crank and tried rolling the bike over, it still freewheels.  Gear behind the flywheel is turning opposite way (clockwise) that the flywheel is supposed to go (counter clockwise). 

I even took the gear and flywheel w/ starter clutch assembly out and spun the gear in place on the flywheel using a drill just to see if maybe my starter was going too slow, but it still never engaged.  The starter has to be going backwards.

[inanecathode]

Maybe i'm being too obtuse, but isnt that how gears are supposed to work though? For every gear mesh theres a change in rotation?