Riders Of Vision

Well, I have an 82 Vision listed in the swap shop...  Since no one jumped on it ;) I guess I might as well try to get it running. 

I put a new battery in it.  When I turn on the key I get the idiot lights to turn on.   With the bike in neutral, and the kickstand up, engine kill switch to on, I get some clicking when I push the starter button.  But nothing else.  Time to start tracking down wiring to the starter I guess?  And maybe pull it out to check it?

Thanks for any tips.  I'm starting to work through the FAQ, technical pages and Haynes manual....

I get 12 V+ at the positive terminal on the starter motor when I push the starter button, but no turning.  Guess I have to pull it.

If you have the time, You'll get a lot more than what you were askin!! These guys REALLY know these bikes and can help you..  Im betting you wont want to sell her when she runs!!!

I mainly just want something to ride.  If I can get this going I'll keep it.  I'm just a bit leary of getting another caught up in another bike that requires hard to get parts...

I'm open to suggestions from one and all, especially if it sounds like I'm doing something unnecessary or stupid.  :) 

On the good side, so far it looks like the rubber, seals, etc are all good despite the rough looks of the outside.

are you sure that your battery is good? if so you need to do a starter seal and rebuild. Some guy was selling brushes on flea-bay when i had to do mine and I got a kit for about 60 bucks.

Just got a new battery and charged it up over night.   Maybe I'll charge it a bit more to make sure.

Are the brushes for the starter motor generic enough that I can just search on that?  Or is there another model I search on?  I'll pull out the starter motor sometime this week...

the brushes are pretty specific.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-Starter-Rebuild-kit-1982-83-XZ-550-VISION-XZ550_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem4a896060dcQQitemZ320132374748QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Gator, you just need brushes for a 2 brush Mitsuba starter.

 :) You may indeed need starter brushes, the starter could also be full of oil if the starter seal has gone kaput, the starter solenoid could be shot...However, before you go there try a couple of other things first... ;)

1 x When you push the starter button, TAP the starter motor with a hammer...Does it turn over now??

OR...

2 x With the ignition on, short the starter solenoid (its on the right side of the battery box) across the top two terminals...does the starter turn over now??

:) Let us know the outcome... ;)

                 

I have one FREE seal left!
Let me know if you want it.  It will be needed to rebuild the starter.

Ok you got me I'll take it! I'll pm you my address .

Glad to do it for you Rick.  Now I just have to get "rhpaw" (currently on "v" vacation) motivated to send the seal out.
get me an address and I wll get crackin.

yeah, I'll send it.. get get me an address.

You guys are the coolest! 8)! They sent me one, too! :D!! It's in hand and ready to be put in when I get back to her!! so cool. :)

Thanks for the tips.  I already drained the oil, so I just took off the starter motor.  I put the battery voltage directly across it and it didn't move.  I took it apart and the brushes were very dirty, worn.  I need to measure them to compare to the official specifications I guess.  The armature looks good.  I don't find any shorts between the contacts and the shaft, and all the contacts seem continuous.

The inside was a bit greasy, and had some burnt grease, but I don't think it had been filled with oil...

One other thing though.  One of the end cap supports (where it bolts to the engine body) was broken.  How easy is it to get a new end cap?  Or can I just JB weld this?   :)

those long bolts and the starter body where it bolts to the engine is under a lot of stress/torque...

plus, those mounting points are where the starter grounds.

I have a parts starter and can send you an endcap for a $15 paypal donation to the site...

that's what Brian donated for an '83 brake pedal... I think that's fair

Some success!  I cleaned up the inside of the starter motor.  Just some emery cloth and alcohol.  Put it back together and the motor works now. 

Now how do I get the spark plugs out??  If I put my socket on it, I can't rotate the wrench handle.  If I add an extender I bump into the gas tank etc above it.  Is there some perfect Yamaha spark plug wrench people use?  I'm thinking I'll take the gas tank off to get the spark plugs out.

Night Vision, thanks for the offer of the end cap.  I'll PM you.

The easiest way to get the front plug out is to pull the tank and use a long wobbly extension , or as many short extensions as needed , with a wobbly on the end. The Vision uses an 18 mm plug wrench, and some have walls that are too thick (like mine so I turned them down enough to fit . ) I'm told snapon 18 mm plug wrenches will fit right in.

It seems like the socket fits down over the spark plug.  The rear one seems stuck in, I still haven't figured out how to get at the front one effectively.  I think I need to remove all the bracing for the fairing as well as the gas tank.

The rear brake is frozen solid.  The foot lever moves, but it seems like the cam is completely stuck inside.  Another thing to take apart...

take the air box off too... it's almost a straight shot

Patience is a virtue working on these old bikes. -Bite me constantly.

A thin 18mm deep will get the plugs front and rear, and I find that a shorty (1- 1.5 inch socket extender works best to get them out.

For the rear brake, it's a bitch to remove the wheel from the spines if they've never been seperated before.. Use a rubber mallet and lots of silent cursing. It will eventually break free. While you're in there replace the brake bolts listed as a sticky at the top of the page. It's MUCH easier to do with the rear wheel off.
(If they're not replaced, the bike will kill you and 4 of your closest family members) -"Curse of the V"

I put the starter motor back in.  (JB weld works for now.   ;))  Now the engine turns over at least. 

However I'm realizing that this is going to take more effort than I want to put into at this time.  I really want a bike I can ride.  I'll probably work a bit more to show the engine runs, but I'm looking to pass this on.  Back to the swap shop.

Gator, be sure to get something 20 years newer , all old bikes will require extensive  repair to be reliable. 
And most of them will not be anywhere as good as the Vision, when your done.

Suzuki gs500, and the kawasaki gpz 550 are both good machines you can get pretty cheap and have a decent amount of support for em.

I got an 83 Honda Passport from my brother in law.  I had fun getting that working.  And I don't mind wrenching a bit to keep it in shape.  For some reason I'm just not bonding with this bike.  Might be different if I had some time on it.  I can see everyone on this forum is passionate about the Vision... What is it that makes this bike special for you?

The Forum!   Plus the bike is cool.

It was technicily advanced for the year , it produces very good power , especially for the size , handling is excellent . No chain to mess with . I don't see another one every mile. I could go on for ever and ever .
It just is a combination of factors, to me its worth what ever I have to do, to keep it going
Like I said all old bikes will take a fair amount to get right , but the Vision is worth the trouble, many are not.

Quote from: Gator68 on May 17, 2009, 11:36:04 PM
What is it that makes this bike special for you?

When I bought mine, it was from the dealer.  It had 10 miles on it.

Mine had only 6 miles.   ;)

H₂O

I am not a racer, I don't want the only place i ride to be a track, i don't want an engine that is only good in a small rpm range. so no inline 4's

I am not and off road rider, and enduros are uncomfortable

I like to take the girl on loong rides so it has to be passenger friendly, so no super duke

I don't want a heavy bike, I need something narrow and flickable

Chain sucks major, and no one is doing much belt

I want a bike that is twist and gone, so it has to have lots of torque so it must be a single or twin,

the only twins are sv650-Chain and too sporty
Super Duke- Too big and not passenger friendly
BMW F800ST- too buzzy and too sporty and bad for passengers
Buel Bad for passengers
Harley- waaaay to much cruiser in that them bikes.
Bmw F650CS -got one, she is damn close, but it is a single but the vision is smoother

Quote from: Kid Jedi on May 18, 2009, 12:49:08 PM
Buel Bad for passengers

XB's are bad for passengers.. The vibes are worth a try though. I HEAR they'll vibrate the panties off any female within a 20 foot radius.
(supposedly)

... I'm a marked man, none of those chickmagnet things work for me. :( :(

Son, you have got my genes!
I have only liked two Harley's ever.  Evil's bike and yours.

Evel Kinevel would ride a Buell now.. And, if you watch Ghostrider with Nick Cage, he rides a Lightning X1 to all that daredevil stuff...

(http://moto-images.caradisiac.com/IMG/jpg/7/8/6/1/2/ghost-rider.jpg)

Robbie K rides a Hondo CR

he tends to land much better than dad did.

All good reasons, and Kid Jedi's motorcycle priorities are a pretty good match for my own.  I'm just tired of having to drill out screws...

you go vintage and it is going to be an uphill battle...

I can tell you one thing about going through all the trouble of an old machine (especially a good one)... you've gone through it... Ive had bikes when I was younger, but never really got into wrenching them, Now, without the money to have someone work on them and getting a free bike that had serious needs, I went through nearly the whole thing,, and I feel more secure and confident on that bike than any other vehicle Ive ever had,, now, I can ride it like I can fix it. Because I can. It was lots of work, but the feeling is priceless. I WILL get that feeling from the vision, too. Its not far off, just a few bucks and lots of elbow grease. I think the feeling of accomplishment when someone says "nice bike" and I say, I DID IT!! Is worth the effort. Also,, I get bored seeing hardley ablesons and their clones all the time,, I love seeing ANY other bike.. just for variety if nothing else.. Im a non-conformist by nature so you wont see me on one.. See you on the road,, you'll recognize me, I'll be the one with the permanent grin!!!

Agreed.. I always like to think that I can leave something better than I found it. With the Vision, we really do have a winner because man.. when they're bad -THEY'RE BAD! but once you get everything run through and plugged into the right spot. The bike is spot-on.

All the bikes I've ridden have been modern. The Vision doesn't feel like much of a step back for me.
Although I LOVE vintage bikes like mad, I hear they're GD nightmare in just about every sense. The Vision seems to buck that trend. -funny, since it was considered such a kicked dog when new.

HD? everybody hates em... I tend to think they're really pretty bikes in a 57 Chevy sort of way. What I really can't stand is dumbjerks on motorcycles. Cruisers seem to have a lot of them, and sportbikes seem to have a lot of them too.

Take the jerk out of the equation and a bike is just a bike.. just chrome or carbon fiber. Then again, I'd rather have a 70's guzzi than a new R6.. So what the hell do I know?

I have restored a couple dozen vintage bikes, the vision is far worse than almost anything else out there.. but she is worth the work.

Quote from: Kid Jedi on May 19, 2009, 01:38:25 PM
...the vision is far worse than almost anything else out there..

:-\ Hmmmmm, interesting comment...Totally disagree!!! Other than funky carbs, I don't think they are any worse than most  ??? if anything I find them quite easy to get going again...I presently have #10 awaiting pick up from my garage by its new owner and on Friday just gone, with a clean set of carbs in hand, I resurrected "Beast's" Vision which was last tagged in '95, so he could take part in the wekend OnROV Spring Ride...so, KJ, please explain...

                 

#10 eh?  nice. Compared to other bikes from the era the vision is harder to turn in to a reliable running machine than a Kawi GPZ550 or a suzuki GS500. After you get her running right then you get to do the starter, a tank with FOUR points lower than the petcock that probably rotted out,  do the clutch bolts, a stator or 2, maby a R/R, rebuild the YICS, and then the whole flapper door thing.

Now here is where I might get my ass beat....
Compared to the honda VF700, Suzuki GS500, Kawi GPZ 550 The 82 vision was a unreliable lemon form the factory.  if you want to restore a bike to get to and from school keep looking.

IF you want project that could net you a wicked canyon carver with high touring possibilities, a great sound, that is cheap to buy, here is your bike, but be warned, if you are inexperienced she will probably spend the first month in your garage getting some major love.

Ask ANYONE here who has restored one if it was worth it, and they will tell ya HELL YA.

Bottom line: the bike needs more TLC than the average UJM, but your effort will not be wasted.


but what do I know ? ;D

Quote from: Kid Jedi on May 19, 2009, 08:56:13 PM
Compared to other bikes from the era the vision is harder to turn in to a reliable running machine  than a Kawi GPZ550 or a suzuki GS500. After you get her running right then you get to do the starter, a tank with FOUR points lower than the petcock that probably rotted out,  do the clutch bolts, a stator or 2, maby a R/R, rebuild the YICS, and then the whole flapper door thing.

Now here is where I might get my ass beat....
Compared to the Honda VF700, Suzuki GS500, Kawi GPZ 550 The 82 vision was a unreliable lemon form the factory. 

:) This, of course, is all subjective shite based on the teachings of the old magazine write-ups of the period which in many cases have been proved incorrect. Infact, as we have discovered, some of the so called "experts" had never even seen in-the-flesh, let alone rode a Vision :o ::)

We have several Visionaries here on the ROV who have owned their Vision's from new, with none or very little of this B.S...

Diatribe like this is one of the reasons the Vision only lasted two years in North America...but several years across the globe... >:(

I've replaced the stator in the "The Mistress" once in four years and am at present running on a used Virago unit...and the Vision isn't the only bike that has had stator problems...look back at your list and check the history...

Hmmmm, gas tank....Never had to replace one because it rotted out...but yes it does happen if not stored properly at lay up!!!...but I've seen that happen with other make/models too...

I overhauled my starter during the winter as it needed brushes...this is the first one that needed doing of all the Visions that I have rebuilt/sold...Other bikes don't require a starter overhaul after twentyseven+ years is what your saying ::)

Never had a problem with air flapper door, as yet, etc, etc.....

As I have said many times..."THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE VISION" ::) If you get it free or for very little money YOU KNOW she needs work and in some cases extensive work!!! However, no worse than any other FREE/Cheap old/older bike of any make...

Your obviously not stupid...your handy with a wrench...so please stop the anal remarks based on second hand B.S!!!

RANT  over...sorry for the thread high jack... ;)

                               

Ya,what Tiger said.lol

I am one of the smart people who ignored the "experts" in the early 80s and bought a new Vision.  Never regretted the decision.  In fact, I was really happy it had such a poor (if misinformed) reputation, as that allowed me to buy it new in 1984 for $1300!

The problems I've had (other than stator) are due to my laziness when storing it.  Yes, my fuel tank rotted - but once I figured out what to use & how to do it, I had that fixed within a week.  The stator issues I've had sure seem to be caused by a bad replacement R/R that always tested OK.  When I replaced the R/R, I got more than 2x the miles out of the stator.  Then that R/R went bad - reinstalled the previous one & got the typical (for me) 1000 miles before the stator fried again.  I now have another new R/R and stator.  I expect to get lots of miles out of it now.

I am in total agreement with Tiger.  ANY old bike needs work - even those owned by one person since new!  Inline fours are a real pain for carb synch and if there are internal engine problems, you have 2x more cylinders to deal with.  Sure things on the Vision could have (and should have) been designed better - but that's true of every motorcycle.  They're all a compromise among the engineering, sales / marketing and financial sectors of the company.

Most of all, this site is tops for knowledge, devotion and friendly help anyone with any old motorcycle could ever want or need.  The Vision likes to be ridden often and will reward the rider with snappy performance and reliability.

H₂O

Did this bike get slandered in the 80's? i havent read any bike reviews, i was going off of my own experience with MY vision. I have put in about 3x the work other ujms needed to be restored...

Kid,
Lucky has a CD that has every piece of trivia about this bike.  Get him at his email.  The CD is definitely for "V" owners.

By the way,  FYI, I have a nephew that asks me questions from time to time.. When I respond, "Well, I don't Know!"  He says...
But But But, You know everything!

I love him for it..

I know that you are one of those guys..... "You Know Everything."  (It's a complement.)   Thanks for making this site what it is.

Kid, if you think a gpz is easy to get into rideable shape i suggest you get one and try it yourself. They're incredibly fragile machines and the fueling is twice as delicate as the vision.

The vision is easy to fix up. Just clean the carbs, make sure its charging, and change the oil. The only reason they get a bad rap is they confuse people because its not an inline aircooled side draft carbed bike like every other mid sized bike since 1959.

Quote from: inanecathode on May 20, 2009, 12:07:21 AM
Kid, if you think a gpz is easy to get into rideable shape i suggest you get one and try it yourself. They're incredibly fragile machines and the fueling is twice as delicate as the vision.

got one with 109K, a 1982 gpz550. did a FULL rebuild, tranny to cams traded it for my first car, 1985 Nissan King Cab 2.4L

I try to only talk about bikes I have split the cases on.

Having worked in a greasy hole on OR., for 3 years, where we got all the old bikes that the Stealers wouldn't work on, I worked on lots of old bikes , every brand out there and most models. They were no easier or harder than the Vision, to bring back to life . Some were the same bike year after year, some people don't learn, that they need to set them up for the winter .Just try getting the carbs out and back in on an old four . I've got two pry bars 24 inches long !! For carb removal and installation.

I've had a Vision engine  down six times , more Honda CB750's than I can count, 450/500 Suzukis, Gpz's , VT Hondas, you name it. I find fours a major P.I.A. Two cylinders are enough, OK three if your greedy, but four, forget it ! Not for me. I hate the high rpm buzz.

Its fine by me that Visions are bad mouthed , it let me buy the first one for 500.00 and the 7.5 parts bikes for next to nothing. Going into a badly under funded retirement , I picked up every Vision I could get my hands on. Mostly these weren't the caliber that Tiger gets , they were parts bikes and they have kept me running for 10 years and I hope 10 more.

Don't get me wrong. I love my vision like no other bike, there is a reason I am putting all of this work in to mine, when i have an 03 bmw f650cs beggin for attention.  8)  I think that the vision that rolled of the assembly line is kinda cruddy, but with all of this support for her its pretty easy to work out the quirks. All bike have quirks, & visions have em in spades. H2O's stators for example. She aint the easiest thing to work on, and that if you are looking for basic transportation there are bikes that better fit the bill.  I Hate the guys who think there bikes are perfect and refuse to see the shortcomings of there own bikes. All bikes have strengths and weakness, I just like to view mine with no illusions.

The Yamaha Vision. The perfect bike.*

*In theory

Now I am having a blast trying to make that theory a reality with modern tech. :D

as for your special carb removal pry bars i totality agree with ya, I custom ground a screwdriver and specialy designed pair of pliers to make carb removal/ installation possible on the 1988 KZ1000P I had to do a valve replacement on today.

Also I think the vision deserves A LITTLE of the bad mouthing it received.  In the U.S. when you buy a bike people here expect it to be perfect and not have ANY problems till at least the second owner. Dumb ass Americans in my opinion. but in other, smarter countries, such as Europe, people understand that bikes are prototypes and shift happens, and don't mind having the dealer work on there bike for a week or 2. Americans want their instant gratification (I hate Americans)
In other more civilized regions *Cough* CANADA *Cough*  people understand this kinda thing.

I think that the slander the vision received was more cultural than actually based on fact.