Side cars

[Rick G]

This is where we can talk about side cars . Its something I have long thought of , for when I'm too old and feeble to hold the bike up!  LOL  There going to have to pry my dead hands off the grips!

[kwells]

I want one so that I can bring the dogs along on some bike trips

[Lucky]

This is where we can talk about side cars . Its something I have long thought of , for when I'm too old and feeble to hold the bike up!  LOL  There going to have to pry my dead hands off the grips!

naw, they just cut ya off at the wrists..., lol

[Rick G]

Works for me I won't feel a thing! ;D

[YellowJacket!]

Heh.  I'd love to have a sidecar to take my dogs for a ride.  Levi. the younger one is afraid of my Vision since I put the Macs on it but Dexter loves to go out in the car and would probably ride in a side car.

David

[kwells]

So what side cars are available for these bikes on a budget?  Do any come with the brackets to make it fit without making custom stuff?  I've seen some really nice ones on BMWs but I cant help but to think they are in the thousands and way out of my budget.

[Kenny]

  If you want to get into a Hack  try a Ural-the Canadian importer is about an hour from here I believe the US inporter is in Seattle Wa. You can get into one of these for around $11G's,  brand new with a two yr warranty they are great for back roads -You would get flattened if you used one on our  400 series of highways though. My neighbour has about 25g kms on his it's a real conversation piece! ;)
                Cheers Ken S.

[Night Vision]

plus, if I recall, it's a 2x3 after you lock in that x3 wheel.....

....great for those snowy days where the passenger is nice and comfy all bundled up in the hack sipping hot totties

[67GTO]

You can only drive it in two wheel drive when your on snow or gravel, otherwise you can't turn :)

[Kenny]

  Right you are about the two wheel drive although this is not standard on all units -the big problem is no differential  aka solid axle & straight ahead only,  or drop it into reverse... Ural has a video with machine gun mounts & or anti-tank launchers installed This would be an excellent set up for Toronto's road rage drivers!  The video maay be avaliable on the Ural Website
                           Cheers Ken S. :-X

[kwells]

not sure I'd be interested in a powered side car...prob something just basic

[h2olawyer]

Here's a place to start looking:

http://www.sidecar.com

It worked for me earlier - now, it is REAL slow.

H₂O

[kiwibum]

Funny seeing this here, girlfriends sister just expressed interest in riding in a sidecar and I said I would make one some day. I always remember seeing "CHIPS" on TV as a kid and there was a very cool sidecar with the 3rd wheel in the middle of the chair so the chair would lean with the bike as it cornered, always wanted to make one ever since. ;D

[XZv2]

Hi, Rick, there is the sidecar topic. You think of putting a chair to your XZ. I have done so two years ago and I am preparing now a second XZ as a sidecar-puller.

As far as I know there are now two running XZ's with sidecar: a German XZ with an auxiliary frame connecting it to an Ural/Dnepr sidecar, and my one with a German MZ sidecar.

I chose the MZ sidecar because it has three balls as connection points to three connection bars: a massive non-adjustable connection bar just behind the footrest, an adjustable one below the seat, just behind the tank, and an adjustable one below the tank at the front. It forms a strong triangle. Near these three points there are strong XZ frame members to connect them to. (also I like its frame with good springing, its hinging aluminum nose, the boot, the stabilizer)

Most sidecars, such as the Russian Ural/Dnepr sidecars have two balls as lower connections: one behind the footrest and one at the low-front of the engine, and two forked adjustable bars connecting to bolts with matching holes near the front of the saddle and one near the front of the tank: in total a four-point connection forming a strong rectangle.

You can easily understand the problem: the XZ has no frame member in the low-front part (let's say where the XZ starter-motor/oil filter is). That is really a problem: most sidecars have this connection as (important) part of their four-point connection.

Another problem is the connection up-front: ideally you make a sturdy bar between the left-right frame members there, just below the tank: in practise it is pretty full there: the front cylinder head and water cooling parts are really in the way.

My German friend drives his sidecar-XZ only in winter and he took away the fan. In this way he could make a strong left-right connection. For my new sidecar-XZ I made a large and strong construction bolting to the lower engine and the frame member below the tank up-front. That required a complicated construction.

The advantages of an XZ as a sidecar-bike are: the front forks can be mounted in such a way that the axle is up-front, resulting in a good steering geometry, that means pleasant driving characteristics (if you have tapered steering head bearing and a strong front fork stabilizer).
Also important: "sister-Yamahas" offer parts that are useful for sidecar-use.
The gear-wheels of the XZ400 reduce the gearing (my German friend burnt away two clutches with the standard Euro gearing). These fit and they are a real necessity for pleasant driving.
The 16" rear wheel of an XV750 Virago fits right in the XZ, but I use the 15" wheel of an XV700. That is real strong wheel with short big spokes and a bigger brake. The tire of a small old Citroen car fits this wheel (125 x 15), and this reduces the gearing further (and tire wear).
But: this wheel fits but it cannot be fitted right away. You have to retract the back section of the final drive, put the wheel on the splines and slide final drive and rear wheel back together.
By the way, I carry a gas cylinder in the boot in case of a puncture, just as expensive German cars without a spare wheel.

Another problem is the exhaust. The right part is in the way of the area where you want the connection to your sidecar. And: no right silencer please because the exhaust fumes may be drawn into the sidecar, at traffic lights this is not nice for your passenger.
For my present sidecar I took off the right silencer, closed the right side of the rear cylinder collector below the gear box and removed the content of the collector: no difference in performance.
For the sidecar-XZ I am making now, all parts will be at the left. For the front cylinder there is a 2-1 construction, and the back cylinder will join that.

Coming to a conclusion: certainly it is simpler to connect a bike with a traditional cradle frame to most sidecars than an XZ. Also there are other points where you have to make adjustments: ideally the silencer has to go the left; for the gearing you need XZ400 gearwheels. You need an oil cooler because the engine has to work hard.

But also is true: my XZ with sidecar is a dream to drive because of the comfortable springing of the sidecar wheel, the torsion bar between the sidecar wheel and the rear wheel, the turned-around front axle.

If you can obtain an MZ sidecar in the US, that is not too difficult to mount, but you need the balls that are used on the MZ motorcycle and you need a good welder to connect them to the XZ-frame.

I have a nice XZ with MZ sidecar with a three-ball-connection. Still, after two years of pleasant driving I thought of many improvements. I bought parts to make a fourth ball connection near the starter motor to have an extra connection. For that I had to make a complete auxiliary frame that is bolted to the XZ frame and engine.

The front fork seduced me already long ago to think of the XZ as a sidecar bike, because I had long ago a Panther with forks with a non-sidecar and a sidecar position. A friend of mine had a Norton with a wonderful MZ sidecar that I always admired. So much underrated because of its East-German "communist" origin, wonderful construction but mediocre finish, and well, this sidecar had its fittings exactly where frame members of the XZ are. That's where XZ and MZ are comparable, both underrated products. So I tried to hitch these two together.

If you can buy an Ural sidecar in the US, you have to think about a strong front member to connect the ball low-down and the fork higher up, how to modify the exhaust for the left side only. That are the most difficult problems.

The two rear connections are not easy but not that difficult. In the present XZ I use the aluminum triangular plate with a reinforced steel back for the lower ball. It is still in perfect condition. For the new construction it has been replaced by a massive 6 mm steel plate that is bolted from low to the top of the frame.

In general, sidecar-driving is a world of its own. The first 1000 miles are dangerous because your non-sidecar reflections do not work. You have to steer it. Be cautious. Here is now a school where learn the first steps.

The XZ frame seems strong enough to withstand the forces of sidecar driving. I greased the rear-fork bearings two years ago, no play after some thousands of miles; even the front-fork seems to hold its own. I stiffened the front fork by using longer spacers; for the new one I have air support.

To sum things up, Rick: best is, if you want to go for it, to buy a sidecar with the fittings to a motorcycle and start looking how to connect it to your XZ. If you are a good welder, or have a friend who is a good welder, it can be done. But again, the marriage of an XZ and a sidecar is not easy because the lack of a low frame member and because of the exhaust at the left side.
It can be done. You need a workshop, some time and you must hunt for the parts you need, such as the XZ400 gear wheels, I got one set from the UK and one from New Zealand. My German friend got one from Japan. Also an oil cooler is necessary

On my website you see some pictures of the sidecar + XZ I use at present. I will try to have the new one running around Xmas and hope for snow. Rick, is this OK for a start?
XZv2

[mdskinner731]

heres a vision built just for the "older" or handi-capped vision lover iv showed it before but this guy custom built this and has tried to patent this design.. http://www.obriensmotorcycle.com/customs.html

[XZv2]

Wonderful, mdskinner, a four-wheel Vision. Wow, must be something to drive that! With the standard gearing and tires, it will be a clutch-burner. 
XZv2

[Lucky]

Must be me, i only count 3 wheels...   ;D ;D

[mdskinner731]

i can see who cant count.. lol not gonna mention any names lets see who figures it out.. ???

[Rick G]

XVv2, thats a lot of valuable information , I'll start looking for the parts needed.  The oil cooler I have ,I can weld and have a friend who has better, more modern equipment . I had'nt thought  about a 400 clutch and primary drive , I guess I assumed it was the same as the 550 . I have  a set of euro gears in my other Vision  and like them a lot on the forever straight aways here in AZ.
The chair is the big problem , I'll start looking  fo a used one.  I'm also going to snap some pics of the mounts the next time I see a urinal . 
There is a fellow here in town, that has a 1000cc kawi  with a really wide chair on it  . They were made here in the 70's, but I forget the name.  I saw one on a Gold  wing in MN. and it looked line a Civic attached to the wing.
Thank you for providing the info. 
Sorry, but I only see 3 wheels too!

[XZv2]

Hi, Rick,
In Europe many chairs are what they call "one and a half seats". That are extra-wide chairs for two children. They are heavier and more difficult to steer than "normal" single seaters. More wind drag and I would advise a 1000+ cc engine.
I don't know if ever MZ sidecars were imported in the US??
Popular sidecars sold in Holland are Ural/Dnepr and Velorex, both with traditional 4-point connection.
The German traditional number one was Steib, since decades not any more producing, but it seems some of their products are now made in India under another name.
Another brand with attractive single-seaters is Watsonian.
I wish you much success. I have no pictures yet of the auxiliary frame I made for my XZ-MZ#2, it is ready, not yet painted. If you need more specific information I am quite willing to share that with you.
As to measurements ideal for XZ with sidecar: best is to have the sidecar axle some 25-30 cm in front of the rear wheel axle. To have a toe-in of some 4 cm is perfect, sidecar wheel at 90 degrees, motorcycle a few degrees lean-out with driver and normal weight in the sidecar.
Lucky, forgive me, I am thinking too much on sidecars, counting four wheels on a Vision with two front wheels.....
XZv2