Quote from: QBS on July 06, 2009, 11:36:10 PM
Tiger, since you have probably done more starter clutch repairs than anyone else on the board, please give us a report of what you have found over the last 14 or so Vs'. Generally speaking, the condition of the clutches' various componets, common characteristics and the milages that apply to them, that sort of forensic thing.
:) In reply to "Q"s request...Please note that most of these Visions have come into my garage in non-running order :o ::)
Every Vision that I rebuild regardless of mileage, receives more or less the same "fixes"...one of these is to remove the left side engine cover for inspection of the starter clutch, main shaft/ balance shaft nuts and a visual of the stator, etc...I would advise everyone new to their Vision to perform this "fix" from the outset of putting your Vision on the road
..."Do it now or do it later", your choice :-\
"WHY" I hear you ask... :o
Several reasons really...
1 - Get to know your Vision...as you'll find/found, not many people outside of this group know much, if anything about the Vision, including most qualified motorcycle mechanics/techs!!!
2 - The time and cost savings, as well as the heart ache, are greatly reduced by doing your own repairs!!!
3 - To preserve
your Vision!!!
Without, you could end up, at worst, with a deceased motor!!!
Tell tale sign of a starter clutch problem...Your Vision is hard to start as it "slips" and makes a clattering noise which gradually gets worse prior to the starter clutch fracturing!!! Just ask Kev10104 or Wolf about theirs... :o :'( both of these were fractured when I removed them...
What you need to start:
1 - Make a cardboard cut-out of the left side cover...it doesn't have to be to scale...the idea being, that as you remove the engine cover screw's you place each one in holes punched into the cardboard in there corresponding place in the engine cover...You then return them to the correct place on rebuild ;)
2 - A left side engine cover gasket from your local dealer. I have an OEM one in a folder and use it as a template to make gaskets, as I need them, from gasket material purchased from your local automotive store ;)
3 - A 10mm wrench to remove the hex bolt from the gear shift shaft.
4 - A 5mm Allen key/Allen bit, to remove the engine cover socket head cap screws.
5 - A scraper to remove ALL the old bits of the old gasket that WILL stick onto the mating surface's.
6 - A 14mm socket to remove the bolt from the shaft that keeps the flywheel in place.
7 - A flywheel puller... ::)
8 - A 46mm deeeeeeep socket...
9 - A torque wrench...
10 - Grease...
11- Engine oil/oil filter...
12 - A bottle of RED thread locker...
13 - Three M8 x 16mm socket head cap screws...
14 - A centre punch...
15 - clean rags/shop roll...
Start by warming the engine and draining the old engine oil...remove and replace the old oil filter.
Remove the 10mm hex bolt from the gear shift shaft and remove the shifter from the shaft.
Remove all the engine case screws and put them in to the cardboard template.
remove the engine cover by giving it a wee tap with a soft faced hammer...you do get some resistance from the magnets in the flywheel...DO NOT USE A PRY BAR/SCREW DRIVER, ETC...This will damage the aluminum mating surfaces!!! Use a bungee cord to hold the engine case cover out of the way (to your right).
Remove the 14mm hex bolt that holds the flywheel in place...I use an impact gun/socket!!
You now need to use that puller that you beg, stole or borrowed...again, I use an impact gun/socket. Once tightened up, take a (BFH)...large hammer...and give the puller bolt a good whack!! it may take a couple!!!
Please note: When the flywheel lets loose, it flys off, so stand to the side when using the BFH!!! Also, its a good idea to put an old rug/bath towel, etc on the floor to help cushion the flywheel and hold the rollers/caps/springs from rolling all over the garage floor!!!
Once off, turn the flywheel over to see the starter clutch...it is (hopefully) held in place with three M8 x 12mm soc' head cap screws...(Lift out the Three springs/caps and rollers)...remove the three screws and lift out the starter clutch and inspect it for cracks/fractures...if you find any cracks/fractures discard the unit and go find another one!!! I have discarded 2 from 14!!! If it all looks fine, clean the flywheel with something like brake and parts cleaner,
in particular the screw threads. Replace the starter clutch in the flywheel and insert/ tighten the new screws...flip the flywheel over and mark the thread ends that stick out...remove the screws and cut off the excess thread...apply red thread locker to the screws, install and tighten down...flip over the flywheel and lay on a flat surface. Take a centre punch and punch all three bolts ( I do three each in a triangle pattern). Flip over the flywheel and install the three springs/caps and rollers...
Remove the gear wheel, (starter idle gear), that is behind the flywheel when mounted on the shaft, clean and inspect and slip it on to the flywheel...
Behind this flywheel you will see a 46mm thin nut holding the shaft...there should be a double locking tab washer. On ALL the flywheel removals that I have done, only one of these locking tabs is partially peened over!!! This 46mm nut comes loose (approx" 1/16") and causes an annoying rattling noise...(more on this later!!) Torque to 72 ft lbs and peen over BOTH locking tabs.
Reinstall the flywheel, taking care to engage the key in the shaft into the keyway in the flywheel. Install the shaft bolt/washer and torque to 58 ft lbs. It will help if you place a rolled up rag or lead wheel weight between the primary gears...
Make sure that the two mating surfaces engine/engine cover are cleaned completely of any old gasket material. Add a good smear of grease to both sides of the engine gasket and install on the engine mating surface...take the engine case and (keeping your finger clear!!) install the engine cover...remember, be carefull, the magnetics will pull the flywheel in!!! Install all the engine case screws into there original holes and tighten down...DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN!!!
Reinstall the gear shift onto the shaft and tighten the 10mm hex bolt...
Refill with fresh oil of your choice...
Start the motor and let her warm up some, switch off and check for any oil leaks...VOILA!!!
Many Visions have ended up, over the years, in wreckers yards because they were misdiagnosed with crank shaft/bearings, etc failures when in reality they needed the starter clutch fixed/the 46mm nut re-torqued up!!!
I have used various products (eg Red RTV silicone, etc) to seal the engine cover...however, I have recently reverted back to using good old fashioned grease to hold the gasket in place/seal the cover, as taught to me as a spotty faced, first year, 15 year old, auto mechanic apprentice...many years past!!!
Sadly, apart from this taking me longer to "type" than to do the "fix"...I am not able to put up pictures, however, if you search the archives that we have here you will find pictorial help!!!
I hope this will be of help to you...
yes you!!! 8).......TIGER....... 8)
This is excellent advice. Putting off the starter clutch fix can result in a cracked clutch housing which is a much more expensive repair. Good job Tiger!
Tiger this is really great! Can't wait for your next "tech" article! We need to get you to write an article on the Yamaha Vision and submit to the VJMC site and see if it will get published! Umm, shall I send you a possible outline to get started with? ;D
This is a most helpful thread Tiger. Thanks brother!
Great info, now I know what's causing that clatter noise...
I'm gonna get on this right away.
Thanks Tiger.
Thank you so much for this thread, after much searching around here I found it and it looks like exactly what I needed.
Yikes, and check out that avatar from OregonVisionary. :o Someone should do something about that....
Isn't there a way to make the robe stay open longer?
Someone needs to create an avatar that can be undressed to each persons individual tastes, but then why make extra work. BDC