Hey,
recieved an 82 xz550 as a gift...more of a headache than a gift!
Motor has no spark, I've dissected the wiring loom and could not find the short.
When hooked up to a battery--whether the key is in or not...the oil light would be on and same with the headlights but no neutral light.
Motor cranks but it's a little on the slow side and I have a new loom arriving this week.
Anyone know what kind of problem I'm up against?
I have 90 dollars into the bike as of now and that includes an oil change with oil filter...gas tank...and the wiring loom.
I'd rather have no spark than no compression...but in reality--I'd rather have spark and compression!
Any help would be great!
hooboy... I'm not great with electrons.. but:
might be the TCI? find one and use it as a spare if not
Sounds to me like the p.o. might have tried to "fix" something and put it (wiring harness)back together wrong. If it was gifted to you ask the p.o. what was wrong with it that it just sat till you were blesssed with the "v".
Best course of action. Put the new harness in. Connect as per Clymer/Haynes/Yamaha shop manual wiring diagram. Step by step gets you there.
Work on bikes long enough and nothing surprises you.
I would love to replace the TCI but since it's roughly 200 dollars used...I'd rather go through the less expensive solutions 1st...The guy I got it from thought it had a neutral switch problem but he never changed the oil or did anything except cut the seat frame rails off and take the paint off the frame and break some of the fairings and cut the tank in half just to throw it out...
I should have the loom tomorrow or the next day and I'm going to put it in according to the haynes manual except the manual doesn't say anything about a grey wire? I'm sure you guys know about the grey wire that is spliced under the tank on the left side....
My father has been riding for years and the kid I got it from went to MMI....my dad is taking it step by step with me and the MMI guy went all a%% backwards with it...
I may be biting off more than I can chew but I do have a 500 dollar budget I'm trying to keep...including painting...but I have all the paint here at my house.
Let us know what the new wiring harness does in regard to the lights coming on without ignition switch being on. A bad ignition switch could cause the lighting problem you described. The gray wire is shown in the schematic as running from a coil to the TCI and Tachometer. I have a wiring harness that is off the bike and I can follow just about any circuit necessary, so don't get discouraged too quickly if everything doesn't work the way it should. BDC
Slow cranking and no spark, common. Your battery voltage is too low to fire the TCI. You need at least 10.6 V to fire the TCI.
Quote from: visionbobber on May 25, 2011, 07:58:06 PM
When hooked up to a battery--whether the key is in or not...the oil light would be on and same with the headlights but no neutral light.
Welcome!
you'll find me annoyingly picky with diagnostics, & i'll pick on the one thing you didn't check, lol but that one thing you miss will always be the thing to trip you up...
did you check the switch for a short? also do the keys match? (one key for all 3 locks) if the tumbler has been removed, & the switch was reassembled wrong, it'll give you the above problem. BTDT...
--Lucky
ok play around with your kick stand safety switch... sounds to me like its sticky!!! and not allowing your bike to start?? worth a try i would say
Thank you Re-vision, Walt_M, Lucky, and Mdskinner731.
The ignition switch could be the problem which the loom wouldn't really change but I'll know hopefully today or tomorrow.
Lucky, what are these locks you're talking about and the tumbler?
As for the loom I have now, I have taken every clip / attachment off and cleaned them and also put di-electric (sp?) grease on all of them... The only connection that is a little iffy looking is the one coming off the gas tank but I'll be able to fix that no problem.
Re-Vision --How much would a new/used ignition switch be for the triple trees?
Walt_M- I know about the minimum voltage needed to fire the TCI but because of my short--I'm losing power somewhere within that mess of wires!
Mdskinner731- I do not think it is the side stand switch, I bypassed most stuff by taking an alligator clip to both sides of the starter relay while having a battery connected to positive and negative ends of the battery wires for the bike.
Ignition switch.
to find your short the easy way:
hook up your battery, pull your fuses, one by one untill the headlight goes out. that's the curcit with the short. if none of that does it (don't forget the fuse in the headlight bucket) then it's it's in the main before the fuse box or an unfused curcit (charging, starting, etc)
ok, I'm putting the new loom in but I suspect the old one was wired wrong...
For the rectifier unit...Does the 2nd connection (the one that isn't all white wires) come from the crankcase / neutral switch?
As I am putting it back together, I'm noticing that the TCI unit (3 wire connection) and the Rectifier (non white connection) have the same connection and it's really driving me nuts! The schematic isn't helping me much because as the forum says, I am a newbie!
the R/R connector with the heavy red & black wires goes into the wire harness. the 3 white wire connector goes to the stator (3 white wires).
the TCI connectors are the 4 wire(3) goes to the pickup coils in the stator case. the 6 wire connector goes to the wire harness (orange wire, black/red stripe, Blue/black, etc) DO NOT plug the stator 3 white wire into the TCI you'll fry it instantly...
ok so this may be a newb question but on the top of the TCI, which wires would be on the top? the connectors can go in either way...I have a diagram that says "top" but it's written on the side and it could be misunderstood easily by people like myself.
also, do the 3 wires that connect to the other side of the TCI box have a different covering than the usual insulated plastic / rubber...kinda a clothy type of covering?
I think the guy had it a$$ backwards and I wish I would have figured it out before!
Or do both sets of wires with the clothy covering go to the rectifier unit?
here, you need this: http://www.xz550.com/wiring.html go by wire color...
both the stator wires and the pick up coil wires have a cloth covering because they originate in the hot harsh enviroment of the stator case...
3 white wires run from stator to R/R with a (poor) connector in between. the only connectors you could plug in the wrong spots are stator & coil pick up. but if you connect white to white, you cant mess it up because no other gang connectors will fit in the wrong spots...
so the the pick up wires go to TCI box or the R/R...that diagram is informative but I am not so acclimated with wiring...
actually that diagram is foolproof and me being a fool...i can understand it--thanks!!!
pick up wires go to the TCI.
think about it.. pick ups send signal to TCI, TCI fires coils.
Stator sends power to R/R. R/R sends power to battery
When I got this bike..I knew how to clean carbs and get a Go Kart engine started (got a go kart when I was about 8 and if it broke, I had to fix it..)
Now I have all this knowledge and still at this point--I know close to nothing but I'm learning more every day. I did not want to buy a bike at a dealership and no nothing about it when it breaks....Building a bike was something I wanted to do.
Thanks Lucky for all your help. After I figure out which battery wire is which...which should be simple--I'll have her hopefully firing up tomorrow...who knows. Then it's a mountain of work from there...
Now I'm having trouble finding the correct connection to the oil pressure switch and neutral switch...The diagram shows red / blue from the neutal switch / oil pressure switch to black / red & sky blue to the harness...but from the oil pressure switch / neutral switch the wires are not red and blue...
Is the diagram wrong or am I looking at something wrong...
My schematic shows Sb (skyblue) only from neutral switch, B/R (black/red) from Oil Pressure Switch. BDC
make sure the sockets aren't reversed in the idiot display panel...
idiot display panel? I've gotten the problem down to the pick up coils....now figuring out how to test them. everything is working except spark...
specs for the pick-ups are in the manual (or maybe on Leathers FAQ page). it think they need to pass continuity test in a certain range. as long as you have thm pluged into the TCI & not the stator (& vice versa) it's probably a TCI. online prices are astonomical, but someone here should have one for...$40 ish...
I'm not getting power from the pick ups when it's cranking or not cranking...and thats with the 4 plug connector unplugged from the TCI but I am getting 11.6 when it's plugged in... I opened the back of the TCI unit up today and it doesn't look fried and doesn't smell fried...this bike has been sitting for about 10 years and my wiring is working great so I'm thinking its the pick ups...if it's the TCI unit...then it's the TCI unit...I'm 90 dollars into the bike and my goal is to be less than 500 including a new rear tire and fork seals. Pick ups should be around 40 I think but the TCI unit I've seen from 80 to 200 dollars...but the parts on the inside are like 25 cents...crazy markup!
v-bob ,, i will look in my shed,, see if there is a tci out there ,, may have one out there that still works .
if i do , will work out something with you on it .
i will test it out first ,be sure it will fire a bike too .
Here is the way to find out if your pick up coils are working. They are work on the principal of being pluse generators. The only thing you need is a old style volt meter hook to one of the pairs of wires at a time. Set the meter at the lowest setting, like millavolts, crank the motor, as the magnet on the flywheel goes past the pickup coils you will see the needle jump allitle. Also , I am also almost certain that if you check them with an ohm meter and they are anything but open, they are fine. Test the white and black, then red and black. It would be rare that they are the problem, I haven't heard of any of these owners ever having a failure.
KiaWrench -- Thanks!!
I have a bunch of parts on the bike that I won't be using probably--rear headlight assembly, few of the plastics among other things--Let me know if you need/want anything of that sort.
supervision -- Would I take the crankcase off to test that?? Or would I test on the plug that goes into the TCI box (4 plug connector) Thanks!
First unhook the pickup wires before testing, needs to be seperated from the ecm while testing.
every thing together, you need the fly wheel turning around the pickup coils so you can see them make the milivolts just make sure you don't test bb and rw or you will see nothing, maybe some one messed them up by acdent, who knows? There's plenty of people who have extra's, they never fail. On car distribtrutars they are a common failure but not on most bikes. I did have one friend who lost half on his xseleven, it was hard to find cause it would come and go, 4 to 2 clys.
QuoteI did have one friend who lost half on his xseleven, it was hard to find cause it would come and go, 4 to 2 clys.
That intermittent problem was more than likely not the pickup coil itself and is common on those bikes. The XS eleven has a centrifugal advance and the pulse generator wire harness moves with the backing plate. A short distance from the ignition cover the wires eventually break within the insulation from cold working. You of course can't see it due to it being covered but if you carefully feel the wires you can sometimes feel the problem area - there will be a bump or disruption of the otherwise smooth wire.
As it's running and you manipulate that area, 2 cylinders will cut in then drop off as a connection is alternately made then broken. Repairing the broken wire would have you riding again. At least until the next wire let go! :)
If it's a broken wire, then I'll consider myself lucky for once! Thanks! For the crankcase, what kind of gasket would you guys recommend?
OEM gasket slathered is grease. Others may recommend RTV, not me.
Using the above referenced technique, if one is careful, there is a very high probability that the gasket can be reused several times.
My best friend went to MMI and they taught him that small particles or pieces of RTV can break off and clog oil passages in the engine causing problems future problems...It's either 15+ dollars for the OEM gasket or big money / time problems later...but I'm not acclimated enough to make an educated decscion just yet...so keep those opinions coming! I appreciate them all! Thanks QBS!
I bought a gasket kit on ebay just for that gasket, and guess which gasket it was missing. The guy copped an attitude with me saying it was sold "As is" and I said sure, but you said it had everything except two valve stems. All gaskets were listed in the description, except the 2 valve stem seals. So long story short, he admitted he didnt know much about it and his son had bought the kit when he changed his stator some years ago. Long story short, I asked him to meet me in the middle and refund shipping, and I would give him good feedback, which we did, and I used "the Right Stuff" gasket maker for my gasket. I didnt want to wait, and figured it worth a shot. I tested it out on some old metal parts I had lying around and it seemed good stuff, so I used it, and have had no problems. The small leak I had is gone, and it sealed up great. I don't know what it will be like to remove it, but it seemed like it would be easy on my test pieces. Anyhow, not really a recommendation, but it worked for me. -JM
whoa! I may just go that route. Ebay can be a total pain, after Ebay gets paid--they really don't care about helping anyone...I may check out that gasket stuff--my father says it can be ok--just don't put too much on!
Ask tiger, he has gaskets for sale
i wouldnt use rtv...and i dont anymore. i recently took off the crank case to change the starter clutch.and found a bunch of rtv pieces in the pan...like Raj said , Tiger sells them dor cheap and they are good. like said before, grease em up good and.theyll last a while
I used rtv on mine in 2003 when I put it back on the road. No leaks but I am going back in some time to do the balancer and starter clutch. I used a very thin bead. I will be honest with my findings.
If you used RTV 8 years ago...and you still don't have a leak--I may check that out...But if they have the gasket at the local shop for less than 20 dollars..I may go that route too.. I'm not touching the crankcase cover till I've got a solid few hours to play around with it...been so busy lately!
so I just opened up the left side crankcase cover, the stator and wires look fine.
put a new gasket in and put new spark plugs in and my dad took the liberty of putting new brushes in my starter that had a bad oil seal...
so I have to open that up again and put a new seal in. regardless--I've done practically everything and I still have no spark but I haven't put a new TCI box in! hmmmm