:'( Bad news: after 8,000 miles my used Virago "Low Voltage" stator gave out on SmokeBomb yesterday..
GOOD NEWS: it happened on an epic 260 mile ride with my son on RedSkunk and my brother on CherryBomb
if I was a stator... that's how'd I want to go ;)
here's to good rides and healthy stators ;D
(http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/17/001/5F/63/FB/97/NCnS4sQ0L1EgbTydY+q6BGWEqxa7NwVb0300.jpg)
It gave it's life so you could ride. Noble part, indeed! ;D
H2O
(aka Stator Slayer)
:o Oh shite, don't let its sister know.....Shhhhhhhh, shes asleep in the garage, in a nice warm bath of oil...in "The Mistress" ;)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
And here I have one waiting in the wings , ready to install as soon as the present one (OEM I think) drifts off in a puff of smoke. I'll probably use it anyway .
What is needed is a conversion that drives an outside mounted stator , by a chain, or gears. That way it would run cooler and even if it didn't it would be easier to change.
Sorry about your loss, Night Vision. So much for the low output=equals longer life idea, I guess. Just yesterday, I was trying to think of oil cooling the stator. If the hole was super small.... and came out the side of bolt head, so it was directing the oil in a circle, rather than just peeing out the end of the bolt, it might be very effective. Is anyone currently running a bolt with a hole? I am afraid of lower oil pressure!
Well how neat to have both a son and a brother as fellow Vision riders. Afraid none of my kids have gotten into motorcycles. However two of my son-in-laws have to some extent (the one used my Vision to get his MC license and had a nice scare when he was passing some traffic about two years ago and my front end started to shake on him-problem since solved).
So me and my two brothers each do our own dangerous thing, the one flys his 172 Cessna (used to fly jets-had an engine fall off his KC-135 once while taking off when he was in the AF) the other shoots guns (loads his own ammo), and I ride a motorcycle.
Quote from: don_vanecek on August 22, 2008, 10:46:32 AM
the other shoots guns (loads his own ammo),
That's the only dangerous thing, the other two aren't :-)
Shooting sports are not dangerous. I was taught to shoot when I was 8 years old by my grandfather. I was a member of a junior rifle club from age 12 through 18 (and earned several levels of 'sharpshooter' medals). Firearm safety was always first & foremost at our weekly meetings / target practice. I thoroughly enjoy blasting clay birds out of the sky and target practice with any of my several rifles. However, the most fun is my .45 cal black powder replica Colt Dragoon.
Guns are only as dangerous as the person handling them, just like cars, motorcycles, power tools, etc. A firearm is really just another tool. Nothing more, nothing less. If more people were correctly introduced to them at an early age, there would be much less fear associated with them.
I've noticed that there is a vastly different attitude toward firearms between people who grew up in a rural vs. an urban environment. Most of us 'ruralies' have been around lots of guns for as long as we can remember & have never seen or had any mishap with them.
Thread hijack over. (no rant intended, just some musing)
H2O
Quote from: h2olawyer on August 22, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
I was taught to shoot when I was 8 years old by my grandfather.
In my case it was my father. Was a good rifle shooter in Boy Scouts...
What is really a hoot is my 64 year old brother shoots in these military type rifle matchs at the range he belongs to(M-1's, m-16's, AR-15's) and consistently comes in first and second beating out guys 20-30 years younger then him and they often have some pretty fancy modified guns.
Opps, sorry are we stealing your post again?
I went to military school for high school (willingly) and was on both the pistol and rifle teams. We were the only high school to compete against colleges such as USMA, USAFA etc....and win. I shot "master marksman" in small bore rifle and expert marksman in pistol (22, 9mm and 45). My only quirk, and one that drove my coaches crazy is that I'm right handed but left eye dominant. I shot pistol right handed but used my left eye...made for some interdeting sigh calibrations. ;D
But even more odd is that I shoot rifle left handed which did not prove to be a problem until the first time I fired an M-16 on full auto. Got smacked in the cheek by three ejected shells. :o
Firing the twin 50's with the national guard was a very thrilling experience.
David
Quote from: h2olawyer on August 22, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
Shooting sports are not dangerous.
H2O
Unless it's the type of sport where someone else is doing it at the same time towards you. ;)
I did well with rifles growing up, started with a BB gun, shot my dad's .22 a lot. I've barely missed Marksman each time I've gone with the M-16. I'm a bit out of practice for now, need to get my rifles out and ready to shoot again. And yeah, those shells hurt. :P In Basic the instructors didn't like me either, I do the same thing with rifles. Right-handed but tend to aim with my left eye. Trying to work out of the habit but it's a habit...
are you guys implying that I should shoot my Vision? GudGawd it's only the stator! its not fatal :P
No hunting Visions! That would be firearm operator error!
H2O
speaking of firearm operator error.
I once kenew a goy who took his family to the park for a cookout. After trying unsuccessfully for several minutes to get the charcoal lighted he decided to douse the grill with lighter fluid. He stepped back and flicked a match onto it and WHOOMP! It flared right up and ignighted his right arm. He ran around screaming and waving his arm like a madman until he was tackled by a police officer who quickly extinguished the conflagration. However, he was promptly arrested immediately after. His charges? Waving a firearm in public! ;D ;D :o :o
And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
David
After taking a better look at your picture, I notice the center bikes paint job. Looks nice! The white follows a good line. Also I see the seat has a grab-strap, and the wheels are black. That's cool you guys had a 260 mile run. Riding with your son and brother, thats good time I'll bet! One of my neighbors, has four sons, all of which ride! Yesterday, the dad, two sons and I went out for a little ride. We did a 150 mi. ride, part of which was thru the Little Dragon, my bike turned 56,000 miles. I rode kind of easy, and was curious on what kind of mileage I could get... I went 120 miles, on only 1.77 gallons of gas!
supervision: How eay were you riding? That worked out to 67.79661 MPG. I thought visions usually got around 50 MPG. Did you cheat and shut the engine off on the down hill parts..... :P
Quote from: YellowJacket! on August 24, 2008, 08:59:55 AM
speaking of firearm operator error.
I once kenew a goy who took his family to the park for a cookout. After trying unsuccessfully for several minutes to get the charcoal lighted he decided to douse the grill with lighter fluid. He stepped back and flicked a match onto it and WHOOMP! It flared right up and ignighted his right arm. He ran around screaming and waving his arm like a madman until he was tackled by a police officer who quickly extinguished the conflagration. However, he was promptly arrested immediately after. His charges? Waving a firearm in public! ;D ;D :o :o
And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
David
That reminds me of this:
(http://www.demopolislive.com/gallery/images/1/large/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg)
Little known (but really important) V trivia....
Regarding coasting on a V with the engine off: The owners manual says DON'T DO IT. The V transmission is lubricated by engine oil pressure. No oil pressure means no transmission bearing lubrication.
The paint job and seat strap on that center bike that supervision likes so much were available on Euro versions of the XZ. I've seen the paint both in red and in silver. It is a very sharp look. Might do something with Tractor when I do the repaint.
H2O
here's a couple more pics of 'Lil Stevie McQueen and RedSkunk
(http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/14/007/78/79/E5/83/9djvrje3xLgpCoE+R4CnT9saImFzwCez0300.jpg)
he's not a true Visionary.... yet ;)
he has an '08 Raven Edition R6 back in Florida
POSER!
(http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/19/006/46/FF/D3/AA/bUh6RrsnpLSZ1eoigjXSJ5UXcKobfsTD0300.jpg)
I really like the European paint scheme , but I can pass on the seat strap.
Aye, like the blacked engine and wheels with the red & white. :)
Quote from: Rick G on August 24, 2008, 05:35:55 PM
I really like the European paint scheme , but I can pass on the seat strap.
then you probably wouldn't like my Wilson tennis grips either ;)
BTW, that's
not a seat strap.... it's a :o
HOLY SHIT :o strap
that sucka is
F A S T
we tore down Kennys used Cag Daytona he got for his birthday, cleaned the engine & painted it appliance gloss black, cleaned & painted the bare frame silver, rebuilt the carbs, new gaskets for the reed valves, ordered a new clutch drum & pinion, & found we need a chain.
he's still looking at colors for the bodywork, but the blacked out engine against the silver frame should look very clean...
Quote from: Night Vision on August 24, 2008, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Rick G on August 24, 2008, 05:35:55 PM
I really like the European paint scheme , but I can pass on the seat strap.
then you probably wouldn't like my Wilson tennis grips either ;)
BTW, that's not a seat strap.... it's a :o HOLY SHIT :o strap
that sucka is F A S T
Second on the holy shit strap. Riding on the back of a v with nothing but those stupid handles feels like you're going to fall off.
Quote from: QBS on August 24, 2008, 02:15:39 PM
Little known (but really important) V trivia....
Regarding coasting on a V with the engine off: The owners manual says DON'T DO IT. The V transmission is lubricated by engine oil pressure. No oil pressure means no transmission bearing lubrication.
Isn't that true of any bike with unit construction?
I can't speak to "any bike", just Vs.
I always found the seat straps on Japanese bikes to be a pain in the a$$ , literally and I always took them off. The handles aren't any better. I wrap my arms around the riders middle and hang on. My feeling is that if I fall off, their coming with me. Ridding pillion is not for the bashfull!
Quote from: Aelwulf on August 24, 2008, 05:40:37 PM
Aye, like the blacked engine and wheels with the red & white. :)
I'll second that. It looks really good. I've been toying with the idea of blacking out YJ's silver stuff but just can't *yet* bring myself to do it.
The rear end is coming off this winter for paint and I'm going to install the painted and restored 83 monoshock I've been working on...maybe I'll just drop the motor out and do it then....Like I told my wife, I would sell the Vision when I'm done restoring it....something I plan to take a LOONNNNGGG time doing. ;D
David
I was going to wait for winter before I got into it.... but got bored not working on any Visions for so long (touch wood) ::)
The stator was tested soon after the "event" as an open circut between one of the three phases... not grounded out as the original and the electrosux failures.
As I suspected, this stator was not toasted (sort of). When I put the used Virago stator in 9k ago, it was a nice light caramel color... it's still caramel color, but like one of the dark ones in the bag of candies as opposed to the light caramels... mmmmm candy.
anyway... since it looked so yummy, I was curious where the failure occurred. I removed the stator from the case and flipped it over....
Oooohhhh... maybe that's it... where the windings come off the posts and into the wiring clamp/casings looked crispy...
I wiggled one wire around a bit and I either broke it off or it was already broke and just the crispy chit'lin was holding it there...
that's weird I thinks... the underside of the stator is closest to the outer case and should perhaps get some benefit of air cooling.. or not :(.
It seems that this was a heat related failure, perhaps combined with vibration... maybe there just wasn't enough epoxy on the wire gang/..
But this is the first time I've seen that particular part of the stator crispify while the posts looked good.
Anyone else seen this?
I'm wondering if the additional epoxy of the proper sort would prevent vibration damage? i may try some on my Virago stator.
Mine have ALL failed by shorting to ground. I'm fairly sure it is a vibration thing, but the way mine have failed, it is on a winding way down at the post, not on any of the outer wraps. Adding epoxy out there wouldn't likely make any difference - for the failures I've experienced.
H2O
perhaps epoxy with a strip of fiberglass cloth? may insulate it too much though....
I think that coming up with a way to relieve the trapped heat, would put us into a whole new demension, of life-span.
I went to the parts well this morning and picked out a nice HONDA VT500 stator I picked up cheap awhile ago...
now I'm down to two spare stators... another Hondo and a NOS Virago stator I'm saving for a special occasion :P
I got a wild hair and decided to investigate the side case threads that I sort of knew where not so good... I had two bad ones that were stripped out. Luckily, those two were "stop bolts" and not the one with with the copper washer that is a "through bolt".
that was a concern because I didn't want to contaminate the engine with "swarf" and when you helicoil a buggered thread, you have to break the set tang off...
I went to the local "PepBoys" auto parts store and found two types of thread repair kits... a "store brand" kit and "Perma Coil" kit. The coils in the Perma Coil kit looked beefier so $30 later it was mine.
The thread repair went good once I figured how the heck I was going to tap the holes with a stubby tap and the flywheel in the way. I ended up devising a tool that would put the Haynes fork tube tool to shame ;D .
I found that the ass end of a 1/4" socket fit the tap. Then I (eventually) figured out that if I took a 1/4" drive 5mm socket and put its ass on the tap, I could then place a 3/8" drive 5mm hex socket into the "reversed" 5mm socket... add a 3/8" extension.... and I was in business... plans are available upon request ;)
I actually perfer tapping threads using a ratchet and extension instead of a "T" handle tap holder.
I am able to hold the rig with one hand to make sure its square and level, while slowly ratcheting the tap with the other hand...
anyway, I think it turn out good. Won't know until the stator replacement is complete and I go to torque em down to 20 newts
Dave: Glad to hear the ole stator toasted previous to the upcoming fall ride. That's a silver lining on that cloud anyway. You got some good mileage out of it. I like the pics of your son and Red Skunk. Get one done in black and white and you can tell people that's you back in 82!
I am glad you mentioned the helicoil because I need to pick up a 6mm one for an almost toast sidecover bolt on my Venture. I checked last time I was in Buffalo and they were out of stock. If you are able to get your hands on a set and throw it your saddlebag that would solve my problem too.
Looking forward to getting the guys together again,
Lou: try ordering from KBC TOOLS (pg. 122 in their catalogue). It usually is stock item and can be picked up sameday. They are on 6200 Kennedy Road below Coutney Park Drive in Mississauga. About 10 minutes from you and me.
http://www.kbctools.com/can/main.cfm
SV, I had thought of using the filler opening , with a modified filler hose , to introduce an amount of fresh air to the stator cavity . Of coarse It would require a similar opening in the back to exhaust the hot air. This would require an oil separator . None of this is really that hard to achieve , but if vibration is a factor , it might not be of any help.
Oh yeah they are available here in Canada, but someone thinks that we will pay through the nose for them ::). Try about 4 times the cost at KBC compared to the good old USA :o. I'm not very patriotic when it comes to buying tools at such inflated prices. The automotive stores in the US really do a great job with making some of these specialty tools affordable for the average Joe. Canadian tire has done a great job in recent years here, but some stuff is still not on the racks. Nevertheless, I do appreciate the thought and sending the info :).
Now you've just given NV an idea how to pay for his new stator!
Thanks for the link,
Quote from: Rick G on September 01, 2008, 11:56:00 PM
SV, I had thought of using the filler opening , with a modified filler hose , to introduce an amount of fresh air to the stator cavity . Of coarse It would require a similar opening in the back to exhaust the hot air. This would require an oil separator . None of this is really that hard to achieve , but if vibration is a factor , it might not be of any help.
yeah, I sort of tried that a year ago.... oil filler hole and the timing mark hole, when opened at the same time, makes the engine sound like a steam engine instead of a V-Twin :P
Quote from: vadasz1 on September 01, 2008, 11:07:05 PM
Lou: try ordering from KBC TOOLS (pg. 122 in their catalogue). It usually is stock item and can be picked up sameday. They are on 6200 Kennedy Road below Coutney Park Drive in Mississauga. About 10 minutes from you and me.
http://www.kbctools.com/can/main.cfm
just so you know, the Perma Coil "kit" I got is slightly different than the professional Helicoil kit.
with the 6mm Perma Coil "kit" you get the tap, an insertion tool, and a couple (maybe six) one length coils in a bubble wrap package... for $29.99 + 8% sales tax
no case, no drill bit (1/4"), on multiple length coils, no tang removal tool etc. The tang just gets punched into the hole. I can see where the tang removal tool could be useful for those "through" bolts
oh, and the $68.67 is the going price for the Helicoil Kit here too. I think the patent ran out and other companies are making similar products.
I looked at the timecerts also... those are a little more complicated to install, pricier, and are probably more suited to higher stress applications.
NV, I made a tang breaker from a 5 mm bolt with a slot cut in the bottom. A small amount of chewing gum on the other end will remove the tang.
The steam engine effect is the pumping caused by the pistons rise and fall( as you probably know) It would take a VERY large breather to over come that problem , I'm afraid.
Rick you're a man after my own heart! ;D One of the benefits of needing to make it work and never having the "professional kit." I especially appreciate creative uses of chewing gum ;).
Take care buddy,
Quote from: Rick G on September 03, 2008, 01:05:26 AM
NV, I made a tang breaker from a 5 mm bolt with a slot cut in the bottom. A small amount of chewing gum on the other end will remove the tang.
The steam engine effect is the pumping caused by the pistons rise and fall( as you probably know) It would take a VERY large breather to over come that problem , I'm afraid.
WHAT????!!! no duct tape? what flavor gum? seriously, the I think the 5mm punch and stickum would work... I'll let Lou tell me how it works ;) :D
NV, I was considering a water jacket too. Is there any room just inside the case, on the end? 1/4 inch of jacket would have to pull tons of heat, what ya think? I never think of vibration, these things are smooth! Butt, the heat is way too high, IMO
boy, I wish you asked that question yesterday before I got it back together and I could have gotten some actual measurements :(
there is very little room between the rotor/flywheel and the side case. This I know because the VT500 stator's wiring harness was sticking up a bit too high and was interfering with the rotor (I suspected this and did a dry fit first). I had to take the stator back out and "bend" the harness down a bit to clear the rotor. This made the wiring harness pretty much flush with the side case, and the wire gang is only about a 1/4" thick...
also, a while back Don V didn't quite get the rotor seated all the way down and skinned the side case when he did the starter clutch bolts.. (sorry to squeal on 'ya Don)
CDL , we use what we have!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
NV I really prefer double bubble , I like the taste ( takes me back to my child hood) plus its much stickier than Wrigley's. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
we'll start calling you Bazooka Rick ... k?
anyway... got things back together tonight and fired 'ole SmokeBomb up......
???
???
:o
well huh! now that's interesting... the VT500 stator charges just a hair under 14v ( 13.7-13.8 ) at low idle (1000- 1100 rpm)
ok, that's acceptable....
drops down to around 13.5v at 5K...... ok, not a deal breaker....
BUT GET THIS - I get 14.5v around 1500-2000 rpm before it starts to drop off
so I think it's either:
don't worry... that'll change once the anti-rejection meds wear off
or....
better keep an eye on the R&R ;)
That sounds right NV. However, my OEM stator and many moons old OEM RR will not go up to 14volts at idle, at least not until I get the rpms up say above 2500. It goes up to 14.5-15.0 volts for a brief period of time when first starting out on the bike and then within 5 mins drops down to about the 13.8 range and generally maintains in that area. When I slow down and idle I usually drop to around 12 volts.
Assuming a fully charged battery this is my usual pattern. Of course that can change if your battey needs an extra charge, which I think the RR picks up and rises to the need.
It sounds like the Yami like the Ascot ;).
Quote from: Night Vision on September 04, 2008, 09:30:22 PM
...better keep an eye on the R&R ;)
:) I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on mine for similar reasons... ::)
8)........TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: Tiger on September 05, 2008, 06:35:27 AM
Quote from: Night Vision on September 04, 2008, 09:30:22 PM
...better keep an eye on the R&R ;)
:) I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on mine for similar reasons... ::)
8)........TIGER....... 8)
Same here. My Aerostitch voltmeter beeps whenever my voltage gets to 15.5 or higher. Been beeping a bit ans saw 16.2v the other day.
David
:) Mine goes the other way...It drops to about 13.2/13.3 after a short while on the road.
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: Night Vision on September 04, 2008, 09:30:22 PM
we'll start calling you Bazooka Rick ... k?
Either Bazooka or Double Bubble butt ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Quote]
Some how , what I was going to say disappeared ! and now, I don't even remember what it was.
As Rick experiences a "senior moment". ;)
H2O
Quote from: h2olawyer on September 09, 2008, 12:00:10 AM
As Rick experiences a "senior moment". ;)
Well, I thought I would never say this...
Wait, what did I come in here for?
Was it the cheesecake?
Huh.
Who ate the frosting?
Brian
NV,
Maybe we should send you down a complete Red n White 83 that turned over 100,000kms in Caron Saskachewan & has not had the Stator replaced... ;)
Cheers Ken S
sure! oh wait... is that the one with no brakes ;D
no wonder you rack up so many miles.... you just can't stop youself :D :D
Night Vision, my Son's VFR 750F would not hit 14.5, and I fixed it by running extra wire to make up for the resistance in the stock loom! Just an extra pos, and neg from the R/R, before the plug, straight to the battery, and it went right to 14.5
hmmm... I have the extra pos, but not the neg
... I do hit 14.5 occassionally, but not consistently
I may try that extra neg