Charging issues, I think

[arthurdent510]

So I've been having a problem lately with keeping my battery at a good voltage.  Usually everything runs and idles good when I first start it up, but after it warms up a bit I have trouble holding an idle.  It'll die, but when I try to start it back up the battery voltage is very low, sub 12v.  So I started working through the charging system fault chart thing, but having some questions.  This is what I've been finding so far with a cool bike.  I'm going to work on wiring a volt meter this weekend so I can look at it riding around and after it's warmed up a bit.

battery at start - 12.4v (sat on a charger for a while to get it there)
Voltage @ 2500 rpm - 12.4v (measured at battery)
@ 5000 rpm - 13.2v

So I pulled the wiring harness for the stator off and measured across the wires as the next step said, and I was getting less the 1 ohm between the leads.  It would sit around .8 ohms. Is this the symptoms of a failed stator? 

Another question that I wasn't sure about, if the r/r fails, will it fail open?  Or will it just stop charging the battery?  I've read that sometimes the r/r fails after getting up to temp, which would back things failing after it's heating up.  Just wasn't sure which side to start looking at, and wanted to make sure that I'm looking at the right thing..

[Walt_M.]

Yes, you have charging issues.You should have 14+ volts at anything above 2000 rpm. The stator coil resistance should be less than .5 ohm between any 2 white leads. Check the white leads to ground(the frame or engine) and there should be no reading. If you get any resistance there, you have a bad stator.

[inanecathode]

I would do as walt says and just check between the wires and ground, thats how the vision stators fail. I suppose you could have an internal short but that'd be the first one i've heard of.

[QBS]

Check the three stator output wires for continuity to ground and to any combination of themselves.  Any continuity indicates stator failure. 

I've only experianced R/R failure once and it was in the open mode, charging in the 15 to 17.5 dcv range.

[inanecathode]

The vision stator is y-wound, so they'll always have continuity between eachother.

[arthurdent510]

Ok, a couple more questions...  where is a good spot to measure voltage while the bike is running?  Is the battery terminals good?  Second question, at 5k rpm, it took a while to get up to the 13.x volt reading we got, it was very slowly climbing.  Is that typical?  Or should you immediatly see a change in voltage with rpm?

[h2olawyer]

The battery terminals are the best place to check the voltage.  Yes, the voltage should immediately rise with RPMs.  At idle, mine - with a good stator & R/R charges at about 13.5V.  As soon as the RPMs rise, so does the voltage - which peaks at just over 14.5V @ 2000 RPMs.  It sounds like the stator is shot, but run through all the checks (in order) on the flowchart to make sure there aren't other issues.  Also, before beginning the charging system flowchart checks, make sure all the electrical contacts at the stator, R/R & battery are clean & solid and that the battery is fully charged.

I've had enough stator failures that I just check for continuity between one of the stator wires & ground.  If there's any continuity, the stator is fried and you will definitely need a good replacement.  The reason to go through the rest of the flowchart is to discover if there are any other charging system faults.  I typically run through the entire procedure again after installing the new stator.  It is also part of my springtime maintenance, getting the bike ready for another riding season.

H₂O

[arthurdent510]

Well, finally got over to check it today, and there's continuity....  so I pulled the stator out  :'(  Time to find a replacement... any recomendations on where to get one?

[Kid Jedi]

Ricks is best. electrosport is cheap crap that will  fail in 3k

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

Speaking from personal experience with stators in not only the XZ550

[h2olawyer]

Tim Parrott on eBay is the least expensive, then there's Rick's Motorsport electrics, Electrosport and RM Stator - also on eBay.  RM sells the same Chinese import stators as Electrosport.  You could also get one from Yamaha, but they're running well over $400 these days.  You can find both Rick's & Electrosport stators @ Dennis Kirk.

I've used stators from all the above suppliers - they all got the same mileage for me.  But with my stator issues, I haven't been able to tell any difference among the choices.  Tim Parrott does require an OEM stator core to be sent to him, but his stators are by far the least expensive.  They look identical to the ones from Rick's.

Speaking from experience dealing with all the above in the XZ550.   ;)

H₂O

[Kid Jedi]

a ricks didn't work for you? why is your bike so hungry for stators? better grade oil? is your ground connection to the frame getting covered with crap?

would you like a regulator and rectifier form a 1976 gl1000? i have a spare i was planning to use ion my vision, but i think you need it more.

[h2olawyer]

I have been getting exactly 1000 miles per stator - no matter who made it.  I keep my bike clean & have owned it since new - always parked in a garage or large yard shed.  If you want a full history, go back & read the many posts I've made on the subject.  I won't take the time to re-hash it again.  The first stator that died @ 4500 miles, was replaced with a new OEM type R/R and a Rick's stator.  Always use Bel-Ray semi-synth oil.  The first 5000 miles I used Yamalube.  Never more than 2000 miles on any oil & that was during the original stator life.  The oil now gets changed with every stator & the filter every other change.

I have had tons of advice and done nearly everything I've been told, thought of or read about to increase stator life.  I finally got another aftermarket R/R.  My stator was still going strong when that R/R died @ 1500 miles.  Put the previous R/R on & the stator went -- wait for it -- another 1000 miles and then fried.  I have another new aftermarket R/R that was installed with the last stator last fall.  800 miles so far & everything is working well.  I also installed a set of Tiger's phenomenal battery cables a few years ago.  I believe the OEM type R/R which I bought new as a Rick's from Dennis Kirk was faulty from the outset but none of the charging system checks have shown anything wrong with it.

Rick's advertises their R/R as a Rick's unit, but it is the exact same thing that came on the bike from the factory.  I find that a bit deceptive and have not bought anything associated with Rick's since then.  It is a business practice I detest and equates to plagiarism in academics - it is just plain wrong.  Even if they make the best aftermarket stator, I won't do business with them until they change their practices.  This is the first I've mentioned it on the forum as it is really only important to me and not likely a big deal to anyone else.  I am not suggesting a boycott or anything similar.  They just irked me with what they claimed.  I was looking for and expecting an improvement over stock and they supplied a factory part.  Not a big deal at the time, but in retrospect, it has cost me several hundred $$ in fried stators over the past several years.  Thus, they will never receive a recommendation from me.

H₂O

[Kid Jedi]

I REALLY want to figure out why your bike is so hungry for stators. I trust your intelligence, and skill, i just love challenges! apart from a magnet check, or a possible wobble in the magnetic field (mis-located magnet on the flywheel?), I would LOVE to get your bike to my shop and plug her in to some logger software/ oscilloscope  and have you beat the piss out of her.  and review the data over a cold one but alas, distance is a cruel mistress. Have you considered getting a reg/rec from BMW? the cost is only 20 bucks more and the unit is 2x the size and 3x the load rating.


Actually I REALLY like that logger software idea.

http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/usb/el-usb-3.php

do a few rides with it hooked in to several points in the system, rig up a converter so it could also measure AC voltages

only if money grew on trees.  :'(

Hell you have probably heard this all before!

[louie]

hi there,

if you are still looking for a stator there is a place called rm stator in quebec that will mail one to you brand  new for 150 bucks. I am not sure how long it will last as i have not bought one yet i am still checking my wires but i to am having charging issues with mine they have a website online at www.rmstator.com if you want to check it out.

[kev10104]

I believe I am having some trouble as well.It shows 11.7 volts for a while and eventually goes up to 13.5 but it used to go up right away.

[h2olawyer]

I've bought 2 stators & now, 2 R/Rs from RM.  They ship to the US quickly and are easy to deal with.  The stators & R/Rs they sell look exactly like the ones Electrosport sells - sourced from China.

As long as the charging gets up to 13.5 - 14.5 volts, it is working & the stator is likely still good.  All mine have failed and gone from normal charging (14+ volts for me) and immediately dropped to battery voltage - roughly 12.5 volts and the voltage drops from there.  I know I can get at least 45 miles with a fried stator, even running the headlight.  Last time mine went, I got it started, it had been charging great right up to when I stopped for lunch.  Started it after lunch & noticed the voltage was 12.5.  Wondered if it was better to stop it & disconnect the headligt - then restart or if the headlight would use less power than a restart.  Whatever, when I got to my garage, the voltage was reading just over 11 volts and the headlight - though still on - was dim.  The turn signals stopped working about 2 blocks from home, so I know it was just a matter of minutes before the TCI would be seeking more power.

Sounds like louie may have a battery that might need a bit of water added or has a cell going bad.  Just a hunch.  Could also be a loose connection in a ground or in the voltage sense circuit (brown wire from R/R).

H₂O

[arthurdent510]

Ok....  so the latest update.  Replaced the stator today, but now it won't fire.  Turns over fine, but it will never catch.  The pickups were replaced with the stator for a set of used ones and I had to swap over the tci connector from my bad stator.  I drew out which wire went where, but chances are I screwed it up.  Is there anything else that could possibly cause it to not fire?  I'm thinking at this point to pull everything back out and swap out the pickups to make sure those aren't bad... 

[Walt_M.]

Check your battery volts while cranking. If it goes anywhere near 10.6V, it will NOT fire. Charge the battery an hour or so then try. The starter will turn over at less but the TCI won't fire.

[Tiger]

Check your battery volts while cranking. If it goes anywhere near 10.6V, it will NOT fire. Charge the battery an hour or so then try. The starter will turn over at less but the TCI won't fire.

Walt's right...You need a fully charged battery to "fire" a Vision. However, you can give it a boost from your car battery to see if that is were the problem is ;)

                8).......TIGER....... 8)

[inanecathode]

If it's turning over at all, it has enough voltage to fire the coils. The starter will quit spinning long before theres not enough voltage to operate the TCI. Higher battery voltage will help spin it fast enough to get good fuel draw and compression but this bike was running before it was monkied with so i'd suspect anything touched in the repair. Pickup coils, and the plug at the TCI.
I'd be suspect of the used pickup coils. Make sure none of the wires have pulled out and the plug isnt upside down (i think it can be, or switched with another, not sure). Check the resistance of them, it should be 110 ohms or so (varies a bit but you're looking for very few ohms or totally open (infinite)) unplug the plug going from them to the TCI, then check between the white and black then the red and black.