Balance Beads

[PHM]

I am installing some Pirelli Sport Demons, and I will be trying instead of mount on weights, which look so ugly on wheels, balance beads,anyone have any experience with these?

[Re-Vision]

Know they work on trucks, wonder how important it is to have the right amount?     BDC

[fret not]

I recall "balancing fluid" from the later 70s.  You put it in the tube (tire) and just ride.  It worked well enough of you didn't go over 60MPH but go for a good rip and the tire would touch the road surface about every 3rd revolution (well, it seemed like that at times). 

Lots of "arguments" on both sides on the internet.  Mostly hearsay and not scientifically based.

My concern is braking and acceleration forces on top of the humps and bumps of the road surface.  Seems to me that something loose inside the tire is not going to be properly distributed all the time.  If it works, great, one can't argue with success.  I'll hide and watch for a while.

[Re-Vision]

This site recommends 2oz per tire for most bikes.

http://www.counteractbalancing.com/counteract/en/products/motorcycles.html

BDC

[Rikugun]

I recommend removing all existing weights, locate the balancing dot correctly, avoid using large decorative valve caps and riding the bike as is. Unless the tire is defective you will not discern any out of balance condition, handling woes or odd tire wear.   ;)  :D

[Vandal171]

I have had balance beads in the tires of my Goldwing for the last 6,000 miles. I get no vibrations from the tires and they are wearing very good. 

[fret not]

I agree with Rikugun about wheel balancing in regard to normal street riding where the speeds are not terribly high.  I won't be using balancing beads or any other thing that goes inside the tire that can move around.

Where balance becomes more important is at higher speeds in "severe service"  race conditions.  Static balancing with anchored weights is what we used for road racing in the 60s and 70s, and still works very well.  You need free running wheel bearings to get it done well, otherwise you should have the wheels balanced on a dynamic balancer for the speeds you will attain.  If you are going to be a good citizen and never go much over the speed limit you can probably use the beads and get along just fine, or not.

[PHM]

It seems as though some people have had success, with this product, and as re-vision stated with the counteract site, it is roughly 2 ounces per tire.  My wheels at this time are at the powdercoater, should be done midweek.  Have ordered all new wheel bearings front and rear.  When all together, if we get a break in the weather I will see how it feels at highway speeds.  Thank you all for your input,,,will update

[Rikugun]

fret, that's exactly what I'm talking about. These bikes just aren't capable of speeds where balancing is an issue assuming cast rims and properly installed quality tires. Incidentally, OEM cast rims and tire manufacturing has gotten to the point that short of a defect, one is hard pressed to choose a bad tire relative to being balanced for street purposes. I even raced my 550 Kawasaki with no weights and never had a problem. The only problem I had was after using a bubble balancer and experiencing wheel hop over 70 mph. I removed the weights, the hopping went away and I've never balanced the wheels on my 550's since. This has been done with many sets of various brands of tires. I get even wear right down to the indicators and have never felt any ill effects associated with an improperly balanced wheel assembly.

I understand most of us grew up thinking balancing is essential in all cases and no amount of anecdotal evidence will be convincing. If it weren't for my experience above I probably would be hard to convince. We've been conditioned to be pro balancing such that anecdotal evidence that beads or the awful green slime work and most just believe it. Much like the perceived power gains of adding a loud exhaust, balancing makes us "feel" like the ride is smoother. I've read the testimonials on a bead site and interestingly they didn't offer one drawback. Why would they, they want to sell beads. One service manager offers they never got a complaint. That doesn't prove it works but only the beads don't necessarily hurt - and that assumes the ad is truthfull.  I think balancing could be negatively impacted in a small way and most riders will never notice it. Many will even swear there is an improvement. If there is an improvement with a new set of tires with beads added, I'd attribute any improvement in ride quality to the new tires.

I didn't intend to jump on my soap box but it has been awhile and I do enjoy it so....  ;)  :D  At the end of the day if you feel more comfortable spending that money even if it's just for peace of mind, you absolutely should. I'll be the first to admit there's something to be said for that. Additionally in defense of balancing, the last one I used was in the late 80's and it was not a high speed balancer.  It was spun by hand but did have a digital display which everyone knows equals accuracy.  :P  Short of a $1000 K&L balancer I'm a bit skeptical of them all and wonder how many shops still use older static types. Regarding beads or slime, I have reservations about putting things inside the tire. That combined with the success of doing without balancing altogether gives me no reason to try beads. Just my 2 cents, don't try this at home and YMMV.  ;D  ;D

Oh, one more thing. My rant applies to bikes with undamaged, OEM cast rims and good tires only. I have no experience with balancing slime or beads in cars and trucks. I also think conventional high speed balancing with weighs is a good thing when it comes to automotive applications.  8)

[Cdnlouie]

Just for the record some of these OEM cast wheels (from the era) are significantly less than perfect and require significant wheel weights to bring into balance. If that is the case or you do hate the look of the wheel weights (myself included here) it is a very reasonable option.  I have painted my weights after finishing the wheel with new paint and polished aluminum edges which helps significantly with the aesthestics.  At this point you just about cringe when someone suggests banging a nice bit piece of lead on the rim holder, so I get your point. I just picked up some these beads myself and intend to give them a run sometime in the spring.  I have a static balance which I totally find adequate for most any rims, but these little innovations may have a place in my toolkit for the future   8).  Looking forward to hearing your report!

[Vandal171]

I should also add that I have run balance beads in a set of 31" super swampers with great results and I always run balance in the front tires of my Peterbilt. On the Pete you can definitely tell the difference with balance. I have never had a tire shake worse with them installed so I can't see a problem running them.

[Rikugun]

Cecil, great to see you buddy! I had a premonition my rant would coax you from your lair! LOL  :) Always nice to learn your opinion. Don't be such a stranger. But then again, maybe having your visits so rare helps to keep them so special.  ;)  :)

Good point that not all cast rims are created equal.  :( I've only tried my method on maybe half a dozen models and luckily haven't encountered any bad ones yet. A relatively small sampling for sure. Can you recall any specific models that were particularly troublesome? Any from the Vision's era or newer? Happy New Year BTW.

[Cdnlouie]

Happy New Year to you Rikigun!  My absence is the fact that I am working on my physical body these days rather than the Vision  ::).  Still poke my head in whenever possible.  This topic caught my attention as it just happened to be on my mind too, as I personally found out my lovely refinished front wheel required about four ounces to properly balance due to casting margins (or profit margins) of error.  One of my local shop buddies (old school fellow) mentioned that this was not uncommon for the era, so it is a bit of a crap shoot on these cast rims.  Thus the balance beads may be a decent option for anyone who has this problem or wants to eliminate about four weights on the exterior of his wheel. Sometimes I find I can get away with no weights as I do my own tire changes, so I often try it first and then find that if I have a problem it could be an easy fix to simply add the balance beads.  Especially on my touring bike which requires a fair bit of work to remove the wheel after the fact, so the option has a few convenient applications.

As far as being a threat to rolling around in the tire, there are is really nothing that can happen inside except you need to keep the beads from getting into the valve stem when checking the tire pressure, etc. These little fellows really don't roll around very long before they afix themselves to the balance spot and you will wear the outside off long before it wears anything microscopically off the inside.

I appreciate all the comments given for this post as it is an interesting option especailly for those who don't have access to a static or dynamic balance and wish to do a tire change on their own, then get back on the road quickly & safely.  You can get away with no balance as long as you don't exceed speed limits, but anything greater will quickly reveal the importance of wheel balance.

I look forward to hearing more personal experiences,

[treedragon]

In 1985, on an XZ550 I was accelerating through 140kph when real quick the front went into a humungous tankslapper
Bike used whole width of road with violence.
Brute and strength and ignorance saved the day along with a clear message to universe this was NOT going to be the day I hopped the twig :o  :o and I got away with two wrenched forearms instead ;D  ;D
I always balance them myself these days for some strange reason  ::)

The bike shop concerned had not balanced the wheel as asked, it was fine after it was balanced although that first ride had an air of caution about it as I recall............
Here in NZ these bikes have a reputation for out of balance front wheels but as said previously many do not ride in the realms where it matters much.

In the shop we always balance front wheels when doing tire changes, even on the latest bikes. Maybe 1 in 20 to 30 doesn't need weights..........

[Night Vision]

As of April 1, 2011, it is illegal to sell or install a wheel weight in the great state of New York that contains lead   :-\

lots of MC shops are opting for the balance beads instead of larger weights made from something not on the periodic table of elements. 

lead bird shot was outlawed long ago... if they ban lead fishing jigs, I'll be an outlaw for sure  :police: .

[Rikugun]

These are interesting stories - and some quite surprising too.  One quarter pound of weight is excessive on a motorcycle rim and above average on even a car or light truck rim. I'd be concerned if it were mine. Did you break the tire down and reposition it on the rim and try again to avoid such amounts being used? I'd be curious which methodology was used to determine balance as the results can be dubious at times. I believe balancing technology for bikes has lagged behind that of the auto industry and many shops are using equipment that is quite crude even by bike standards. This would actually be an argument for using beads! Then there is the human element. Search the interwebs and you'll read many accounts of vibration in the steering wheel post balancing only to have it corrected by a different mechanic. It's not uncommon for a poor technician to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.   :D

Treedragon, given your near death experience I understand why you balance your own now! Did a weight come off making the rim suddenly unstable? I'd have to know more details to get a better grasp of what happened but it sounds scary. I also can't help but wonder why in NZ there is such a problem with front wheel balancing. On the surface at least this seems peculiar don't you think? Any theories?

I see references to the use of beads in trucks and I'd caution their dynamics is quite different than that of bikes. Not saying beads are dangerous or won't work in bikes I just wouldn't make the comparison to super swampers and big rig wheel assemblies. Something I wasn't aware of is the notion the beads "fix themselves to the "balance spot". I trust this is on the tire on not the rim!? So I guess this negates them being reused or would that be impractical anyway? I also hadn't thought of the implications of fouling the schrader valve and can't say that gives me a warm fuzzy...

I know the thought of not using weights of some kind is probably foreign to most. That's expected as instituting paradigm shifts is often met with skepticism. LOL  8)  ;D It's good to question the status quo sometimes. Like Cdnlouie, I change my own tires and try them with no weights first. So far none have been required. If the need arose, I wouldn't hesitate to balance them by some means and would even consider using beads after carefull consideration. Great topic PHM and interesting discussion.  :)

[Cdnlouie]

Great to hear the positive report PHM! Also look forward to seeing your Vision sometime when we are out and about in the spring/summer.  I enjoy the Niagara Escarpment Ridge Road ride down from the Hamiliton area, and its been a while.

RG the beads don't permanently affix, rather they locate to the balance spot as soon as the wheel develops rotational speed so the "rolling around" time is really not very much over the life of the tire. However, the size of the beads is so small that you would have a hard time chasing them down after a tire change.  Maybe a vacuum might work with a clean bag and then recycle the "little fellas" again, as long as you are careful after you break the bead.

I want to hear how NV might be able to use these "balance beads" on his fishing line! You might need a bigger motor in order to flee from the fisheries officer  :police: 

[Rikugun]

RG the beads don't permanently affix, rather they locate to the balance spot as soon as the wheel develops rotational speed so the "rolling around" time is really not very much over the life of the tire. However, the size of the beads is so small that you would have a hard time chasing them down after a tire change.  Maybe a vacuum might work with a clean bag and then recycle the "little fellas" again, as long as you are careful after you break the bead.

ahha, I see. Thanks for the clarification.  :)

[jasonm.]

1st the vision should use the "center" mount weighs that- all yamahas used in the 80's. They clamp on the center ridge. They are lead. And can only be found- only used . I personally have felt out  of balance wheels. Why, because I travel faster than most. Ask Cecil or others who have ridden w/me.  Lead weights are now illegal in the US. As for the beads. They do NOT balance the wheel at all. They are simply "dampers"  that help to minimize the "out of balance" feeling. Dampers like your supension to smooth out bumps. I use a spin balancer at the local shop when I put on new tires.