Well well
The Vision I'm currently working on has a slipping starter clutch so I decided to fix this asap. Seemed to be an easy fix.
I took the stator cover off the bike and I got some problems.
The previous owner of the bike "fixed" the starter clutch problem... or so he thought
1- He used very short bolts that aren't peened. They don't have anything to hold them there. These bolts have been cut with a hacksaw to their too short length. None of the reads go through the flywheel and the bolts surely have backed out.
2- The previous owner used the puller thread bolts to attach the starter clutch, leaving the original messed up threads for me.
This means I can't bolt a puller to the flywheel to take it out. I tried to, but the bolts will pop out, damaging the threads even more.
I could drill bigger holes and tap them but the starter clutch is in the way, I can't tap the threads to the bottom of the hole because the tap tool is conical.
You guys have any advice on what to no next?
pretty sure Tiger uses on of these
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKpgE3uZ!pb-2BOI))p,dU!~~_1.JPG?set_id=8800004005)
I think you could tap them bigger, use a "bottoming" tap: start with the regular tap & finish with a bottoming tap. (it's not tapered)
This 3arm puller could work I guess. Won't it damage the flywheel tough?
I think I could grind a regular tap to turn it into a bottoming tap, just like this guy did.
http://www.muller.net/mullermachine/howto/insert/index.html
i have ground down taps, but you need to do it in stages, so your going to probably need 3. usually you end up going further with each step & once you grind material away, you can't get it back. quicker, cheaper & easier to just buy one of each tap...
Personaly i've never had good luck with 3 arm pullers, they tend to slip & with the pressures required to get the flywheel off i wouldn't trust it as a good option. others may have had better luck with this approach & could offer a better opinion...
I'd try the three arm. If you damage the fly wheel buy another off tiger.
If its really stuck on there (as virtually all are) the three arm wont pull it off.
I had the same problem 10 years ago . I drilled the available holes to the base size for a 10 mm tap, which didn't leave enough material, so I went to the next size up in SAE course thread. I seem to remember it was 5/8 or 11/16 diameter, but don't quote me.
I used the tapered tap until it bottomed out in all three holes, then I cut off half of the taper with a Dremel cutoff wheel and ran the tap in one more time. Finally I cut the whole taper off making it a bottoming tap.
Finally, I cut the thread and installed the Automotive style vibration damper puller. It didn't want to come off so, after trying the biggest hammer I had , I tightened it up , until it sang . I put a box of rags under it and closed up for the day , in the morning it was in the box waiting for me.
Quote from: Night Vision on April 15, 2012, 10:09:11 PM
pretty sure Tiger uses on of these
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKpgE3uZ!pb-2BOI))p,dU!~~_1.JPG?set_id=8800004005)
:) Spot on N_V...The three arm puller is the only puller I use on all the Vision's that I have worked on over the years...with NO problems what-so-ever.
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Thanks for the tips!
I'll get one of these then
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST%2Fbrowse%2F4%2FAuto%2FAutoTools%2FPullerTools%2FPRDOVR~0256362P%2FExtracteur%2Bde%2Bgriffe%2Bd%27embrayage%2C%2B6%2Bpo.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443250921&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672452&bmForm=form_locale_change&bmFormID=1334578958636&bmUID=1334578958636&bmLocale=fr_CA
Is it big enough?
Tiger, is your puller bigger? it doesn't look like the arms are long enough or spread out far enough to do the job...
I just had the same problem. One hole the threads pulled, I worked a 3/8" x 16 tap in a little at a time.Make a thread, grind off the start thread, make a thread, grind more. You just have to remember, the importance of not letting the tap hit the clutch, too hard. I thought I was screwed!!! and it turned out to be easy to fix. In my opinion, the most important part, when you go back to trying to get it off, is how much care you care you take in getting the puller centered and applying pressure as straight as possible.
Quote from: Lucky on April 16, 2012, 10:39:25 AM
Tiger, is your puller bigger? it doesn't look like the arms are long enough or spread out far enough to do the job...
I use a 6" three arm puller that I bought from Princess Auto several years ago and it works just fine 8) Make sure it is centered correctly!!!
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Tiger, it's good to know that level of puller will do the job, they are not too expensive, compared to the next step up from their, those with the auto-centering spool, are mega dollar.
Well, the 3 arm puller I got wasn't going to work. The arm kept getting apart as I applied force on the center bolt. They hit the edge of the flywheel and the center part of the puller just goes away as the arms spread...
I ended up tapping the holes with a 3/8 NC16 tool. I just need to get good graded bolts this time and I hope I'll be ok.
If this doesn't work, I'll just grind a slot through the flywheel and get another one from you Tiger :D
The tap worked, that's good! Sure seams, crazy, taping a blind short hole, only like f threads. I rotate the puller until the most run-out is gone, takes effort, but you need your best shot, at breakin that taper lose.
tiger, I'm amazed that you got it off with a three arm puller , the ones I have would scare me .
Quote from: Rick G on April 17, 2012, 03:16:34 AM
tiger, I'm amazed that you got it off with a three arm puller , the ones I have would scare me .
??? Why Rick ??
Once I have it on centre, I pull it up by hand and then use an impact wrench...pull it real tight. I then take a 2lb hammer, give the thing a decent whack and VOILA!!! Put an old rug, bath towel, etc on the floor to cushion the flywheel and stop springs, etc rolling away!!!
Please Note. The flywheel
WILL fly from the shaft!!! Keep your legs and feet away to the side!!!
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Just for those newbs that are scared about the thought of flying flywheels means they are going to loose a limb or something, it flies off, but only travels a few inches. It's not really a safety issue.
Now using compressed air to loosen a brake caliper piston - that's a different story entirely
I'm with Rick on this one, but i ditched my 3 arm puller years ago after a couple of failed attempts (way before i owned an XZ). I guess it comes down to being comfortable with the tools your used to.
I think i also have this fear of warping or cracking a gear in half, especialy if it's wide. not that the flywheel is like that though...
Tiger, have you ever used the rigid puller?
I have tries using a three arm pulley but the arms on mine are too fat. I cannot get it between the case and th flywheel to secure it to the fly wheel. The nice thing about the other kind is you can hold on to it and make sure it doesn't fly everywhere
google proto cone pullers, then look at img.
Quote from: supervision on April 17, 2012, 10:44:54 AM
google proto cone pullers, then look at img.
I'm very picky about who I let pull my cone....
But not so much where you drop a nut :D ;D :o
But then you have to be careful you don't bust that nut...
Quote from: Rikugun on April 17, 2012, 11:51:41 AM
But not so much where you drop a nut :D ;D :o
LMFAO! :D
Problem is, I'd have sell my Vision, to afford that puller.
Quote from: Lucky on April 17, 2012, 09:36:35 AM
Tiger, have you ever used the rigid puller?
Yep. I actually have a brand new one, still in its box...but I prefer the three armed one 8)
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
It finally came out with the center puller! Bolted those 3/8-16 bolts, used the impact wrench on the center bolt until it was very tight then a good hit with a hammer set the flywheel loose!
I took pictures of what it looks like. If you guys see anything that needs immediate attention, let me know. It's high res pictures so you can see in details what's going on!
The previous owner (or previous mechanic) banged the flywheel center pretty hard in order to remove it. You can also see the too short bolts. To my surprise, they were a bit hard to remove.
(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030737.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030737.JPG)(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030736.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030736.JPG)
(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030732.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030732.JPG)(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030734.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030734.JPG)(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030735.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030735.JPG)
This is what it looked like before I removed the bolts attaching the clutch to the flywheel. The top "cap" rotated around the clutch a bit.
(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030731.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030731.JPG)
Once it's removed:
(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030738.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030738.JPG)(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030739.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030739.JPG)
And the starter clutch itself with the cap centered and cleaned.
(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030743.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030743.JPG)(http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/thumbs/P1030744.JPG) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/rwx_gallery/P1030744.JPG)
I'm going to reuse the M8*1.25 threads that were originally intended for the puller, is there something wrong with that?
Tiger , my concern with a three arm is the tendency to pop off when loaded . It may be the pullers I have used were not as good a fit as yours, But the one that is big enough is too bulky at the tips to get behind the rotor. the smaller one does not have big enough hooks , to get a good grip .
Aside from that , a three jaw is putting the stress on the out side of the rotor and Yamaha's puller puts in at the hub.
It's black magic! he's a which! A which i tell ya!! Raises Visions from the dead he does!!! :D :D :D :o ;)
carotman, can you post larger pictures on a slower server please? Thanks! j\k ;-)
I'm surprised your housing isn't cracked! Mine looked a lot less mangled than that and was cracked badly. There is evidence of all three puller bolts having hit the housing too. I'm concerned about the rotation of that outer shell it was more rotated than mine and mine was cracked. IIRC it's staked to the body you might want to tighten those points. The other guys are much more well versed in these jobs then me, but, I'd try and swap that housing and flywheel if you aren't in a rush.
Haha, sorry for the server speed :p
The marks on the clutch housing are from when I re-tapped the puller bolts.
The bike started slowly and made grinding noises too. I'm surprised the starter clutch wasn't loose or anything... The sound must come from the starter then I suppose.
since the clutch isn't cracked, I'll just reuse it I guess. I'll try to stake the outer housing too so it doesn't rotate.
Lucky , I've suspected this all along! I wish I could find another Vision around here, let alone 22!! sheesh. :D :D