Tank Warfare!

[Tiger]

 :) Tiff...Once you have cleaned your gas tank out completely, you can solder, weld, etc, or use chemical fillers such as J.B.Weld, etc, as you will be using POR_15 afterward's... 8) Done properly this will give you a sealed tank for life...('ish  ;) ). With the exterior sanded and rubbed down you can apply your paint with confidence. Keep going girl, your doing very well.

                                 8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Tiffanator]

Hi all.... sorry for the delay in posting, internet is down at work and I spent the whole day running a new cable to try to get internet back up.
Wow... lots to respond to. Um...
I'm thinking I will get my friend to weld it up for me. Being new at welding and working with thin metal like that I really don't want to blow more holes through it. Don't know what a Honda Accord or Explorer (Exploder HA! We used to call my mom's Explorer that) can do to the tank... probably get it stuck underneath and do thousands of dollars worth of damage. At least with my luck it would. I won't need the assistance though... cause seeing as how I'm not your run of the mill, pink nailpolish and 100s of high heels chick... My cage is a Chevy Silverado 2500HD with a Duramax diesel and Allison transmission sporting 33" tires. I think she can handle the tank if neccessary, I hit a concrete block with the tire one time and completely shattered the block.
Thanks for all the welding detail ironb12s. If I have to take this on myself I will probably be calling on you again for more advice. The JB I bought said on it that it could be used for gas tanks... I think. I made sure I got something that wouldn't dissolve the first time I put gas in it. Acetone, I don't know, I have wondered about that. Perhaps a visit to the JB website could help. I'll do that later.
Despite my best efforts... my tank rusted. WD40 cannot stand up to muriatic acid fumes. So.. out with the wire wheel and lots of sandpaper. I'm done with muriatic acid. Next question... uh.. what do I DO with all this acid/water? Its in a garbage can that I can't pick up, in the middle of my driveway. I have one 5 gallon bucket.
Thanks for all the encouragement. I really, really want to save this tank. It is fighting a good battle though. It will get prepped and primered as soon as it is PORed.. I'm really tired of rust.
Thanks all... off to start sanding away at the neverending rust.
Tiff.

[ironb12s]

My Exploder is lifted 3" with the 31X10.5 Coopers on the ground.  Your tank would pass under both pumpkins, but that's neither here nor there...   ;D

I think that I would just go with the J-B in its standard or Quik forms, using a bit of FGlass mesh for large spots.  Sorry that the WD40 didn't protect it, but that's how we learn.  I've been to J-B Weld's site, and no mention is made of anything except heat.  And at 600F, I'd expect you wouldn't be near the J-B when it ignites.   :D  If you do get it welded, and play at that yourself, do the J-B after.  Heat will cause problems with, and welding is nothing but that.

I know, and H2O knows, how it stands up to petrol.  The only question is the acetone, for you might seal that tank with the J-B, does a final soak with acetone to get that last vestige of Kreem out, rinse and dry, POR, finish prep the exterior and off for paint we go!  You should seal the filler and petcock holes before it goes off for paint, and probably before the finish prep.

Looks like your battle is going YOUR way, for a change, no?  Bon chance, mon ami. 

[h2olawyer]

Tiffanator -

Ask kiawrench about Lab Metal for plugging holes & doing bodywork on the tank.  He has used it & seems to really like it.

H₂O

[ironb12s]

Same warning as before, choose, but don't use, your filling agent(s) before you start welding...    ;D

I looked Lab-Metal up, it isn't a 2-part process like J-B.  But if we have testimonies here, follow 'em...  In either case, before you apply them to your tank, take a small amount, let it cure, and soak it in acetone to see the result.  Wouldn't want you to have the tank sealed and leaking again because there was Kreem left that had to come out. 

TTFN

[Tiffanator]

Okie Dokie, after a nice session with a wire wheel on my drill, 3/4 of the tank is rust free. Why 3/4 you ask? That's all the battery on my drill could take, and apparently the wheel too cause it kept popping out of the chuck. I put the battery on charge and I'll finish up tonight. I'm going to call up my friend with the welder today and see if he can weld it or just let me borrow his welder. Anyone know what guage steel that tank is? Lowes has some steel plate, I'm just going to go browse... I love that place.
I coated the tank HEAVILY in WD40 and so far it has not rusted anymore. I'm trying to speed up the process a little to keep from getting stuck with rust, but still making sure to do everything as best I can. I already have the POR, just need to get the tank ready.  The acid bath opened up a few more pin holes that I had missed, I'm glad for that, don't want to get the tank all pretty and have more leaks show up later.
What do I do with this muriatic acid? Anyone have any idea? Are there chemical places that will take this stuff?
Thanks all.
Tiff

[inanecathode]

Deactivate the acid with baking soda, after which it's just harmless salts (and energy, think elementary school science project) and you can just get rid of it like any liquid :)
Really though, just clean the blow through spots well and slather jb-weld over it. It works fine, holds great, and i've had it on my tank for a whole season with no problems.

[Tiffanator]

Inane... thanks. Any idea how much baking soda? I guess I'll just buy a big box of it and dump it just to be sure. 
I'll test some JB up against acetone tonight to see if it stands up to it. I'm thinking it will be fine.
Thanks
Tiff.

[kwells]

tiff it doesnt take much really....If you do a decent job of rinsing the acid out.  If you want to make a Vision tank Volcano...fill the tank with acid solution and add equal amts of baking soda solution....yeehaw!  Actually though a few tablespoons to about 1/2 gal of water will give you a basic enough solution to neutralize a rinsed out tank.  If you add the powder directly you may inadvertently leave some in the tank.

[h2olawyer]

I think Tiffanator wants to neutralize the 20 gallon trashcan that's full of acid.  Althoughn the foaming volcano tank would make for an interesting sight.  Get it on video & start a Vision horror flick!

H₂O

[kwells]

oh ok...i see then...just be sure to wear some eye protection.  It is a big lab no-no to add solutions to acid as it can splash up in your eyes.

[Tiffanator]

Tank volcano huh? HMMMM. Nah... I won't do that. Plus... right now the tank won't hold liquid long enough for it to be fun. Yes, I have around 20 gallons of the solution sitting in a garbage can in the driveway right now that needs to go bye bye. I'll probably keep a gallon or two to dip some other parts in, but most of it can go. I'll grab my safety gear and start pouring. Thanks.
Tiff.

[Tiffanator]

I'm back and I have pictures. I got up today with intentions of getting the holes patched and acetone in the tank. However when I got more deeply involved in griding out the pin holes to find some good metal it became more and more apparent that JB weld may not be enough for this tank. I really think its going to have to be welded. I have some places that are getting flimsy and need some good solid metal welded to them. I took some pics once I got everything cleaned up. Let me know what you think.



These are the two worst spots, there are other spots similar to this though. I just don't think JB is going to be able to fix this. Maybe duct tape, bubble gum and super glue... but not JB.  ;D
Tiff.

[h2olawyer]

That's one clean set of holes!  The ones I filled with JB were about that same size.  I put it on in layers, gradually filling in the holes.  Been several years (late 90s sometime) but I know I had a couple holes I could stick a pencil eraser through with some room to spare.

The POR kit should have come with some screen material to strengthen the rusted areas.  You might look at what they say about filling the holes.

H₂O

[YellowJacket!]

Ah, thats not as bad as I thought.

I wonder if two cans of por would work.  Tape off the holes with the patch material ans let the por settle into the low spots (only) and harden.  Then, do the final por job.  Might lose a couple CC's of capacity but would be well sealed.


David

[Tiffanator]

Thanks guys. I may go ahead and give it a go with the JB. I haven't opened the POR kit yet, guess I'll do that and read up on what they say. Dave, I was considering doing the POR with just tape over the holes, but I have to soak the tank with acetone again to remove the last of the Kreme, and I really don't feel like hassling with trying to get it sealed up again, that was a nightmare, and I can't afford enough acetone to fill that garbage can.  ;) If the holes weren't such a problem I would just POR the inside then finish with JB. I am still going to let most of the POR settle into those areas just to be very sure they are sealed. Another can of POR sounds like a good idea. I have to get the Kreme out first though.
H2O, I got some screen material that I was going to use as a backer. Stick it inside the tank then JB over the holes on the outside and POR over the screen and JB on the inside.
Last task on the gas tank... anyone have any fast and easy tips for removing dents? Yes... the tank from hell... I know. The very top of the tank, right on the flat spot there is a big dent. It is not creased around any edges, its just warped in about a half inch over a 4-5 inch diameter area. I don't think it will be hard to pull.. but I don't want to drill more holes in the tank to pull the dent... it already has enough holes. I was thinking of seeing if I could rent a stud welder and use that to weld some studs around the area and pull it little by little. Anyone ever done this?
Thanks guys, eventually I will get this tank done and I can bug you all about the next task.  ;D You are all my nights in shining armor.
Tiff.

[h2olawyer]

The stud welder would pull the dent nicely.  You might want to try one of those inexpensive "Pops-A-Dent" type products.  You hot glue the puller to the dent & pull it out.  Start at the edge and work your way in to the middle.  On a dent without creased edges, it should work fine.  I tried one on my 83 tank, but that dent is a little too deep & the corners of it are just too sharp to let that solution work.

a stud welder can make holes in the tank as well.  When you pull the dent, it can take the stud & a small piece of the tank with it.  Work slowly & carefully & it shouldn't be much of a problem.  If you do pull a stud out, I believe you can just weld another stud in place to fill the hole.  Not positive of that & the hole would have to be about the same size as the stud, but I believe I remember reading a post about that some time ago.


However you decide to proceed, best of luck!  You've done great so far.   8)

H₂O

[Night Vision]

However when I got more deeply involved in griding out the pin holes to find some good metal it became more and more apparent that JB weld may not be enough for this tank. .......Let me know what you think.

depends on what you plan on doing with the XZ seeing you have that KZ now

if you plan on keeping the XZ.... I would suggest:

getting some fiberglass drywall tape... I have some I could mail you because you wouldn't need much...
set it down with JB weld just to give it some structure and coverage....
use caswell epoxy tank liner, instead of por.....
sell your por on eBay or the forum....

if you don't plan on keeping the V for very long:

I would take some cotton balls place them over the holes and tape over them with masking tape.... and use your por. the cotton draws the por out through the holes and can be trimmed later...

I wouldn't get more.... 1 can ought to do it.

if you got a por kit with the fiberglass and cute little brush.... don't waste your time trying to "patch" your holes with it.... by the time you get the por to set up enough to hold the fiberglass down... the rest of your can will dry out.....

I agree.. those are the cleanest holes I've even seen... nice prepping

[ironb12s]

Just got back from Syracuse, and saw the pics, no surprise where the rust is, that's the pocket behind the petcock, and it never drains.

If you still wanna learn welding, I would cut out any of the really weak spots and take to tack welding plate over the areas.  Tacking it in place will hold it for the next step - MIG.  A MIG can lay down a nice bead, but be careful with the heat...  Get some sheet stock, like what you'd use to patch this tank, and try overlay welding some of them as practice before you tackle overlay welding of the tank.  You can find the correct heat and wire speed settings this way.

If you want the easier fix, take the advice of the drywall screen as reinforcement, kinda like rebar for J-B.  Cut the screen to fit over, and dry fit it while doing so.  Then mix up your J-B and butter/permeate the screen with it, lay it over the area to be patched and work it onto the surface.  A little J-B on the area under won't hurt it, and you'll learn what fiberglass fab is like.   :D  J-B has a 20-30 minute working time, so you don't have to rush.  Gloves are a mandatory item for this procedure, it can be messy.

In either case, DON'T rush it, take your time, if you're not sure testing is always a way to build confidence.

Let us know how it turns out!

[YellowJacket!]

Don't laugh about my dent removal idea.  I got a deal on the "Billy Mays As seen on TV Dent King" (you know the really loud and obnoxious Oxyclean guy) for only 5.00 at autozone.  It did a really good job of removing a bunch of small dents from my cage.  No welding skills were requires either.  ;D

David