Nobody can procrastinate as good as I can. After buying a two line set of SS lines from Fiat Doctor maybe a year and a half ago, and getting my calipers rebuilt by Rick G. about 5 months ago, I finally got around to doing the install two months ago.
The install was pretty straight forward with no leaks anywhere. The line for the left caliper (as you sit on the bike) could have been a little shorter. However, a little creative routing made for an acceptable fit. The existing brake pads weren't worn bad enough to be replaced, so they were left in place.
Each line was bled several times. I was hoping to get rock hard lever feel, but still ended up with a slight amount of "give" in the lever. However, the feel now is at least 90% harder than my 26 year old OEM lines. My friend Randy Cook (20+ years in Yamaha and Honda retail) opined that he thought that the feel was excellent considering the technology of the caliper design.
The real test was how do the brakes work in the real world. They are going to take some getting used to. My test ride was just in the neighborhood. The first time I slowed for a stop sign, I really overbraked. No problem with locking up the front wheel or anything like that, just a whole lot more stopping than was called for. The best way to describe the end result is say that the bike now feels like its' got power brakes. I haven't tested the brakes out on the highway under high speed conditions yet, but based on what I've seen so far, I think that if push came to shove the front end could be locked on dry concrete. Like I said, this is going to take some getting used to. Cheers to all.
:) hahahahahaha...Well done Q.
The S S lines do make for a biiiig difference on '82's and '83's. They take a wee bit of getting used to... after running on the oem lined brakes... ;)
8)......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: QBS on February 13, 2010, 08:06:43 PM
My test ride was just in the neighborhood. The first time I slowed for a stop sign, I really overbraked. No problem with locking up the front wheel or anything like that, just a whole lot more stopping than was called for.
Yup, I had the same experience with my 83 when I replaced the lines. Of course I replaced the seals, pads, and everything else that needed it.
Brian
Congratulations on a successful rebuild. The reward is the better performance.
And now you know your system too.
You want to ride a Vision to Dead Horse, Alaska in the summer of 2013. I will be coming by your place on my way from the Panama Canal.
AK, get out much?
We are having one of the mildest winters on record on the Pacific Coast. The Olympics are sweating! The Garlic , tulips and lack of snow have made Ketchikan a great vacation spot. Our January was a record breaker. Now down in Canada on ski holiday and spring like conditions in central BC. It is usually like a deep freeze here.
I am putting together a ride from the top of Alaska to Panama in 2013 for a Charity benifit and support the Good works of the Rotary Foundation and invite "V" Riders to join me on legs. I however will be doing it on the "Gertie". I will be busy doing Rotary Presentions and to busy to be tweeking the bike. No offence "AKVISION"....
I will post a link to this planned trip and details as they develop. It is three years out yet. I plan long term, destiny willing.
AKv
Glad to hear you got them on! Do I recall correctly that this is the set for an '83 that has just 2 lines from the M/C down to the both calipers? I may be ordering some more up soon.... about how much shorter should the left side line be? I take it that the new banjo bolt worked ok? Thanks,
Steve
Steve, I've got the fairing on the bike now so it's kind of hard to give exact numbers. However, taking an inch off of the left line and adding half an inch to the right line would be good improvements. The double banjo bolt works perfectly as do the swivelling line ends. Thank you very much for making the lines available to me. They are a great improvement.
Quote from: akvision on February 14, 2010, 11:58:38 AM
We are having one of the mildest winters on record on the Pacific Coast. The Olympics are sweating! The Garlic , tulips and lack of snow have made Ketchikan a great vacation spot. Our January was a record breaker. Now down in Canada on ski holiday and spring like conditions in central BC. It is usually like a deep freeze here.
I am putting together a ride from the top of Alaska to Panama in 2013 for a Charity benifit and support the Good works of the Rotary Foundation and invite "V" Riders to join me on legs. I however will be doing it on the "Gertie". I will be busy doing Rotary Presentions and to busy to be tweeking the bike. No offence "AKVISION"....
I will post a link to this planned trip and details as they develop. It is three years out yet. I plan long term, destiny willing.
AKv
You best be doing a leg through colorado o_o
You bet! I think "rhpaw" would not let that pass.. I would be great to have great "V's from CO to WY or further. :)
Never having done the upgrade, was wondering if anyone knows where to get a stainless line for the best price....
My hose looks OK....but you never know considering the age.
I got mine from fiat-doctor on this board. Don't remember the price.
Quote from: musicweb on March 10, 2010, 07:33:21 AM
Never having done the upgrade, was wondering if anyone knows where to get a stainless line for the best price....
My hose looks OK....but you never know considering the age.
You'll know if they're bled out right. All that flex is the line expanding. You can even see the lines shifting around.
Quote from: musicweb on March 10, 2010, 07:33:21 AM
Never having done the upgrade, was wondering if anyone knows where to get a stainless line for the best price....
My hose looks OK....but you never know considering the age.
:) There ya go buddy...
http://www.sumofallparts.net/product_results.aspx?keyword=Yamaha+Vision
8).......TIGER....... 8)
SS line are the biggest upgrade we can make on our rides
This has come up so many times and will continue being asked, maybe we should make it a sticky thread !!
Quote from: Raj1988 on March 10, 2010, 06:41:35 PM
SS line are the biggest upgrade we can make on our rides
This has come up so many times and will continue being asked, maybe we should make it a sticky thread !!
Mmmm, i'd have to disagree. The biggest upgrade is probably a new monoshock. You just dont even know until you've got a better one in there, how horrible the stock one is. I'm even referring to the 83 pogo like that.
&- What good is a High tech. shock if you can't stop Bud? ! ;)
Cheers Ken S. ;)
Stock brakes stop fine. Steel brake lines make it feel way better, but i'd say if you can actually put the lever into the grip while rolling down the road you've got some defective parts somewhere. Properly bled 82 brakes work fine, steel brake lines help with *feel* but they're not going to make your pads grip any better :o
I like the way you think. BDC
Actually it would seem that the response time improves with SS lines, and the Force with which the pad grabs the disk is Higher since more hydraulic pressure created in the MC is going towards moving the piston.
Both of you are correct in what you are saying, better control of the bike is what we're looking for and some situations might require better brakes or better shocks to keep you alive. I wasn't preferring one above the other. Inane questions everything and thinks outside the box was what I liked. BDC
Quote from: Raj1988 on March 12, 2010, 07:44:21 AM
Actually it would seem that the response time improves with SS lines, and the Force with which the pad grabs the disk is Higher since more hydraulic pressure created in the MC is going towards moving the piston.
There is no response time with a hydraulic system (at least one this short) fluid doesnt compress, and the pressure wave in a closed system is extremely fast. The pressure needed to stop the bike is the same at the pads with or without steel brake lines, the issue is the lines expanding and nerfing some of that pressure. That'd be a problem if you only put in, say, 5 pounds at the lever max. Fortunately we can feel that the bike isnt stopping, and apply more pressure. In a properly functioning and bled system in an every day panic stop, you're never going to put the lever all the into the grip with the bike still rolling.
Raj, I felt your pre-ss brake lever pressure and chuckled that you needed to bleed your brakes... Tiger said, "nope, those are the way the OEM lines are"....
if Inane feels that the 28 year old stock lines are fine... then fine... let him ride in front of you :P
There is a business in Canada called Rennsport Auto Parts that sells custom length stainless braided brake lines for $20 or so each. You select the length, type of fittings, angle(s), and color. They have a listing on eBay currently.
I'm with Inane on this one. My vote goes for a better shock first then SS lines, although it is a given that 27 year old brake line are always suspect.....
I did it the other way around and came to the conclusion that a rear end doing assorted SpRoInGs centered around a nicely slowing front end was not conducive towards a long life and a seat unpuckered by butt clench :o :o :o :o
Good suspension reduces the need for extreme braking - Image in mind, bronco rider going nowhere forward but heap up down............
Quote from: treedragon on March 13, 2010, 12:37:35 AM
I'm with Inane on this one. My vote goes for a better shock first then SS lines, although it is a given that 27 year old brake line are always suspect.....
I did it the other way around and came to the conclusion that a rear end doing assorted SpRoInGs centered around a nicely slowing front end was not conducive towards a long life and a seat unpuckered by butt clench :o :o :o :o
Good suspension reduces the need for extreme braking - Image in mind, bronco rider going nowhere forward but heap up down............
Pretty much. I've never ONCE had, or heard of someone getting into a wreck because his brakes didnt work good enough "geeze, i just couldnt stop fast enough" well, yeah, and you couldnt have even if you had a GP bike. I have heard, and experienced, a plethora of times where funky handling, or skipping across bumps, or wallowing into another lane has caused either a crash, or some serious seat clenching.
Yes, the 27 year old lines are fine, if they're not broken and properly bled. If they're totally broken down then they're just that, DEFECTIVE. I would also say that the 27 year old brake rotors are fine too, if someone said something like "oh well its just so old and crappy, it pulsates like my girlfriends personal massager" to which i would say "its DEFECTIVE, replace it" not "wow these stock rotors are just horrible". My 83 has the stock lines, roughly 40 percent MORE brake line to flex than an 82 would, and i can't even put the lever into the grip at a stop, let alone even try that stunt while the bike is rolling. That's because they're not broken, and they're bled right.
If we're going to talk about brakes, lets talk about how wonderously shitty the rear brake is. "But i can lock it up" yeah, i can lock the brakes on my beetle too but that doesnt mean that i can do it again right after trying that :D
Pretty much. ;D
We are in agreement on the the front brake dept, and if any are disagreeing then you must be thrashing the pants of the bike...............
Relative to my riding style I did not experience a huge change in braking with the change to SS lines, the rear shock provided that.
I have seen the results of a brake hose burst on an old Yamaha XJ650....... write off.
However I am going to differ from the "Talking Pear'.......... (sorry Inane I couldn't resist it), with conditions and due respect......... "wonderously shitty the rear brake is"
In all fairness the road surface might be a factor, (me being on NZ roads and all), and I have altered my brake lever a touch. But I am a great fan of the rear brake relative to the low horsepower of an XZ.
I have shortened my lever as part of the the relocated footpegs (so now it require extra effort to lock the rear, and this is good!), as often I Use both the front and rear in tandem (have toooooo) because they are nicely balanced and enable the bike to hold an "even keel" allowing for braking even deeper into a corner without upsetting the steering geometry when one has.... umm "overcooked it a little going into a corner". That is my experience anyway, yours will depend on your choice of suspension settings.
None the less knowing there is new brake lines has to be a bonus. The way I see it is they are made of rubber, would you run a 27 year old tyre on your bike??
For me, having an '83 and all, I can see Inanes argument, but I think we are all missing the point. The real benefit I sought when going to SS was great accuracy of pressure control. The sponginess of the OEM setup makes brake modulation at higher levels of lever pull much more difficult, because you really can't feel when lock up is getting close.
Inane- if you had SS lines . You would be agreeing with QBS. If you do have SS lines and don't agree with QBS. You must be someone whom never exceeds the speed limit or drives in heavy traffic or torrential rains. FYI- SS lines make you a better rider when the bike gives you instant feedback. The stock old rubber lines are similar to riding on tires that are underinflated. My '82 I did my SS lines before the shock upgrade. Remember it's usually easier and cheaper to get the SS lines than an '83 shock. I agree good suspension is an important key to safety. But so is controlable stopping.
I'm saying, you can have the best brakes in the universe, but you'll never go fast enough to use them if you dont have adequate shock absorbers. Comparing ss lines to adequate suspension is silly. The SS lines do NOTHING to the braking power. They dont increase pressure on the pads (if you squeeze your brakes to stop, not just set them at a half inch pull and let it slow down). They don't help your pads stick any better to the rotor, dissipate heat from the rotor any faster, or help your tire stick to the ground any better. They make the brakes feel nice, and that's about it. They're pretty cheap, and they look nice. If your stock system is defective (as in so spongy you can put the lever into the grip while rolling) you need to replace them anyway, that goes with any part. The bottleneck in the vision braking system arent the brake lines, they're the size of the pads, composition of the pads, and diameter of the rotor compared with how heavy the bike is. It's like putting a state of the art fuel injection system on the bike, with a rag stuffed in the exhaust.
OK, I've been reading this fabulous exchange of ideas, holding my tongue, but I just can't help it ;D I'm jumping in! In my world of riding having the best controllable brakes is key. There is rarely a week that goes by that I don't have to panic stop at least 2 or 3 times to avoid hitting a deer. I use my vision for a daily driver, rarely get to exceed 50 mph and routinely haul it down to 5 or 10 mph from 40 or so just as fast as I can. I rely on my Avons to stick, and my front brakes to not lock up. I wish I had stainless braided lines because they would give me just a little more feel/feedback which in my book is a comfort I would dearly like to have. The vision brakes are more than strong enough but the old hoses just don't telegraph the way SS lines do. They are on my wish list but....good tires had to come first. I can put up with the suspension limitations largely because of the slower speeds I ride but also because I am comfortable on this bike and that has a lot to do with the tires. Ahhhh, I feel better already ;D ;D
When I got my bike last year it still had the original tires on it and the owner roared up and down the highway like there was no tomorrow. The tires still had good tread, brakes and shocks seemed okay. I parked it until my Avons came in and were installed. Its Safety First and upgrade the weakest links on your Vision ASAP. The most important upgrade is the one that you didn't do! Bet everyone of us knows someone who has been injured severely or killed on a motorcycle. These discussions are really worthwhile when they make you maintain your bike, I think Tiger's list of upgrades is great irregardless of its order. My two cents. BDC
I got one of the lines from this company and it fits great.
You really can feel the difference.
You need to tell them the specifics of your line.
I have an '82 and this is what I gave for specifics based on their instructions.
Hose 1
1. Fittings: #3 and #3
2. Length: 37 inches
3. Angle: type D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110481371001&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110481371001&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123)
Currently on sale, and they sent it out the next day.
5 days to get to me in CT.....
Total cost was $30.66
Thanks to Fret Nut for the info....
QuoteIn a properly functioning and bled system in an every day panic stop, you're never going to put the lever all the into the grip with the bike still rolling.
I did just that with new rubber lines. i couldnt count the number of times ive had to get on them hard and the handle fully compresses. ive tried to lock my front wheel and it just wont do it. when i get mine back on the road this year its going into my brothers shop and SS lines will be installed.