Riders Of Vision

Hello! I'm  a new member but I've lurked for awhile since picking up an 82 Vision in upper Middle Tennessee a few months ago.

I picked up the Baron on ebay. She was rusting in a back yard, had no starter, one body panel, cracked front fender, bent right handlebar and torn and rotted seat but she would shift into neutral and rolled up the ramp so I have to give her some credit! Probably the way most XZs are found. The frame is mildly rusted and straight and the wheels are perfect, no scratches in her dark black paint that shadows her alloy wheels. Her wiring looked great except for where the battery box connects and somebody straight wire bypassed the fuse box. But no wired melted, I think, (we shall see) and God knows how the engine is but I suspect I will be fine until proved otherwise.  

My first step was to find a starter as I was getting  a little nervous since I'd not seen one on ebay for a couple of months, but one month, three showed up and I did find and rebuild one, de-rusted and primed and repainted and all in Rustoleum Engine alloy paint. I am stripping parts off and saving those that can be reused. I went ahead and purchased an nos red and white stripped tank and body panel set from vision member 'German' and am waiting for them to show up so I can polish them and set them on the shelf until, hopefully by spring, the frame off restoration is finished.

Next month I'm buying more tools, and valve lapping compound and stainless bolts and gaskets and micrometers and whatever ends up needed. Jan. I want to send the frame out to be cleaned/primed/painted.

Hope to ride this summer, summer nights on the RedBaron in the beautiful Tennessee moonlight would be grand.

Thanks for your ear... - me and the RedBaron

Welcome!  Sounds like you are off to a good start.  Keep us posted.

Most excellent!  Please keep us posted.  Extra points awarded for pictures.

Welcome Red :) 

What are you going to use the lapping compound for?  All the Japanese bikes I am familiar with don't get their valves ground, valve seats are another thing though.  The hard facing on the valves is very thin so they are replaced rather than refacing them.

I'm glad to know where that tank & side cover set went to.  I was sorely tempted when first offered, so I hope you enjoy their unique (for the USA) appearance.  You might consider coating the inside of the tank BEFORE it gets rusty. ;)

thanks for writing. I was in Grass Valley some twenty years ago. Lovely little town, some great victorian homes I recall and scenery. I headed down on highway one to L.A. and enjoyed the ride so much, love to get out there again.

I'm tearing the engine down completely and taking measurements and checking for broken gears,  rings, scarred cylinder sidewalls and scorched bearing surfaces as well as replacing all rubber parts and gaskets. I also want to replace the valve guides while in there as I don't trust anything non-metal after all these years.

As for the valves, I had not heard that before and followed an online rebuild which included this step of custom mating valve surfaces to valve seats on an xz550 engine. I suppose I can check the valve closure for a very tight seal before doing this as the engine only has 10k miles.

Yes, I have purchased the red European set. I expect it to take some weeks to get here but am not to much in  a hurry as this is a labor of love rather than a quick get it on the road exercise, and my first bike rebuild so I'm enjoying it in my spare time, most weekends, and it is a learning process. Thus I have the service manual and Haynes book both as well as printed notes off this site to help me muddle through it.

Hi Red & Welcome!
So you know, Yellow Jacket, my son Spectre & I are in East Tn, just outside of Knoxville, & I have a son at TTU in Cookville. (he doesn't ride).

--Lucky

Hi guys, we should get together sometime when I'm in Oak Ridge again soon. I was raised there, a 'ridge runner' with one leg longer than the the other so I can walk along the the side of the hills better, you know.

At 10k miles, why do you think the engine needs a complete rebuild?

Welcome to the SoROV (Southern Riders of Vision) RedBaron.  As Lucky mentioned there's a few of us here in East TN.  I'm in West Knoxville, not too far from Lucky.

Yes, it would be noce to meet up with you next time you are over this way.

David

Quote from: QBS on November 12, 2011, 12:34:29 PM
At 10k miles, why do you think the engine needs a complete rebuild?

Thanks for such a great question. Two things are hard on equipment, time and usage. The bike is 30 years old. Time is hard on grease, seals, gaskets, tubes and hoses. The bike usage is unknown for that 10k miles and it was found without oil. I also want the experience which is half the reason I bought the bike. So simply put, I will not use mileage as a way of measuring my dry sump engine's health or the need to tear it down and inspect it.

btw. The red set from Germany came in a few minutes ago, 10 day transit. All in perfect condition. BTW, German also has the silver set still in stock last time I looked a couple of weeks ago...just saying.

I also will take the advice to POR15 the tank before using in hopes I will keep it that way; is POR 15 still the favored treatment?

RB

Quote from: YellowJacket! on November 12, 2011, 02:59:47 PM
Welcome to the SoROV (Southern Riders of Vision) RedBaron.  As Lucky mentioned there's a few of us here in East TN.  I'm in West Knoxville, not too far from Lucky.

Yes, it would be noce to meet up with you next time you are over this way.

David

It would indeed. We are in Viola Valley just south east of McMinnville. The Cumberland plateau rises to our east just across the road, and it is a place that sees riders from all over the country come here to ride he beautiful roads bordered by plant nurseries and rolling hills much like your beautiful East Tennessee. We enjoy hiking the Savage Gulf state park just to the east. I think that is a great idea. We will do lunch soon. If you guys are getting together drop me a line and I'll use that as an excuse to head out that way.

RB

Red, you certainly have a good approach to the project.  I wish you all the enjoyment you can stand. ;)

POR15 is good for tanks, but follow their instructions to the letter, otherwise you will end up with a real mess

Quote from: roro on November 13, 2011, 05:27:12 AM
POR15 is good for tanks, but follow their instructions to the letter, otherwise you will end up with a real mess

Yikes! Thanks so much for the heads up. (I'm skeer'd!!!!!)

RB

About POR15, what is the best way to close off the open petcock opening? Duct tape? Rubber inner tube cut to match and braced with a stainless steel custom plate painted in one's favorite color and torqued to "feels right" or just use an old petcock throwaway, ummm, forget that last one cause old petcocks leak don't they?

Don't use duct tape!

I used inner tube and metel plates for the petcock and sender unit.

As roro said follow the instructions completly on the POR 15 (no short cuts!)

I also used a gas cap from a parts store(non vented ;))

Quote from: 67GTO on November 13, 2011, 04:32:29 PM
Don't use duct tape!

I used inner tube and metel plates for the petcock and sender unit.

As roro said follow the instructions completly on the POR 15 (no short cuts!)

I also used a gas cap from a parts store(non vented ;))

Thank you.

It's Sunday afternoon and you know what that means.

Rather than a nap I'm in the garage pulling parts off the Baron. The front headlight enclosure is off as well as all the handlebar levers and switches and cables. Now I'm working from the back and moving forward carefully stripping off electronics, signals and lights and associated wiring and even the coolant reservoir while making pictures and drawings for when I need to reverse this. So far, the headlight box needs replacing as well as the clutch lever since that was a strange cheap non-Yamaha grey clutch lever that looked like it came from Kmart. The master cylinder is missing a top and the screws for that are cut off level with the reservoir and the inside stained with corrosion from the elements. I think it's going to be replaced cause I toss anything that looks like it might keep me from stopping. I like stopping. Oh, and I discovered the ignition switch is non-yamaha also so that is getting replaced also. This is indeed a project bike. The good thing is I will have touched everything and know it well by the time it's ready.

Soon, I will be down to the engine and carbs. Once the engine is pulled I will stabilize and elevate the now much lighter frame and wheels and take off the front end and back end and find a good place to clean all the rust and prime and paint the frame. Nashville has a place that does this kind of thing but they also powder coat mostly and I'm shying away from powder coating a frame as I understand it does change the dimensions a little by the great thickness of the coating and perhaps even from a 300+ degree heating, dunno yet, still researching. Anyone have experience in either powder coating or painting their frames?

Thanks.

RB  

Regarding your plans to completely rebuild the engine, if my memory is correct, gasket availability is somewhat spotty, especially head gaskets.  New piston rings are very likely NA.  Hopefully, you'll have good news and find the low miles oem bits to be servicable.

New subject: Since valve seal pliability/life is determined to a large extent by time of exposure to heat and oil, and given that your engine is showing low miles, you might be able to recycle the oem pieces if they are NA.

Your oem clutch should be good for at least another 50k miles.

Yes. Thanks, and I agree and hopefully everything is shipshape and I only need to oil the components and put her back together. If not, then things just get a bit more interesting than I had hoped, such is life!

Does anyone have experience/exposure to the "full engine gasket" sets I see on UK Ebay?

RB

Well, I did get most of that back end done. I have all these little labeled freezer bags full of parts to clean. The zip lock kind. If I run out of room on the Garage shelves I can store them in the freezer under the vegetables, nobody will disturb them.


...below, I've just pulled off the slightly scuffed (one must wonder how it got so scuffed) TCI box and am about to check the service manual "exploded views" before I grab something that might explode.

It was a Sunday again and time for the Baron tear down session. I look forward to this each week, I place my laptop on the workbench and run a movie or documentary on Netflix and simply enjoy a relaxing unrushed tool time with the bike. This Sunday, all wires and electronics are off. The harness is in great shape but I see I need to spend a long afternoon cleaning each connector, actually maybe two or three afternoons, it's dirty and there are a lot of connections and I also need to replace the fuse box with what many of you have done, with a blade fuse box.

I'm going to pull the radiator next which is in very fine shape with bright green water and no mangled fins, almost as good as new along with a almost new looking radiator cap, wonder of wonders. Since I'm going to get her wet when I drain the coolant, I installed the rebuilt starter to keep water out of the lower end, but before doing that I peered in to the lower end with a flashlight and it looks like someone mowed the grass up close as I see a few blades of grass in there and I'll be cleaning it out just as soon as I pull the engine and wash it and then open it up. I can't wait for that and I am optimistic she will be a good engine, any modern water cooled engine with only 10k miles should be barely broken in as long as it was not abused...and that green coolant leads me to believe the best is yet to come.

RB

I agree that 10K miles isn't very much, but most of us don't ride a bike like a car. I'm a lot harder on a bike because they're so much more fun.    BDC

Red, you've definately got the right attitude and an excellent plan.

Quote from: QBS on November 22, 2011, 11:38:52 AM
Red, you've definately got the right attitude and an excellent plan.

:) 100% agree...Keep up the good work and you will reap the rewards 8)

                     

Well, I'm tooling on a quiet Saturday afternoon, netflix on and the radiator on my old black and decker workmate stand, there while I pull off the remaining hoses and the fan assembly which naturally left me with the top center bolt siezed and broken off. I'm excited about that in a good way cause now I have an excuse to go and get some more tools to drill and extract the bolt remains cleanly and even maybe, if I'm lucky, the threads are screwed up in the process and I get to cut my first set of threads. I knew this was going to be loads of fun!

For your enjoyment and/or amusement, here is the Baron as I found her in a back yard Last July dented and rusty tank, cracked fender, ripped seat, bent left handlebar and missing starter  but the bonus of recently cut grass in her lower end where oil should have been...

...notice some previous owner, or the neighbor's kid, has already saved me much time by removing the carbs and leaving them on the seat for me. I do understand removing them is not exactly an easy task the first time so clearly this was added value to me.

I have a nos tank, clean and rust free. So, naturally I want to keep it that way. There are two ways to do that, coat the tank or keep water out of the fuel system.

I've studied the POR15 website. It suggests coating the tank is a "last resort" rather than the first. I suspect this is because the coating process does have risk. Being a last resort, it suggests one should first keep impurities out of the entire fuel system rather than relying on coating the tank to protect it from not keeping impurities out of the entire fuel system.

It is also clear, to me, that there is some risk to coating a new tank in that you could do something wrong and screw a perfectly great and virgin tank up with coating material that constantly leaks into your fuel and slowly fouls up your carbs periodically over time, not to say this is happening on all applications, but I suppose one does introduce the risk when one should actually, with a new tank (or old), keep water out of the fuel system entirely by keeping it full of fuel and using a stablizer when storing the bike and running it monthly over the winter to keep "gremlins" out.

This is my chosen approach with the Baron, for what it is worth, and I'm very happy with it.

RB

Quote from: RedBaron on November 27, 2011, 12:50:46 PM
This is my chosen approach with the Baron, for what it is worth, and I'm very happy with it.

For what it is worth, I also have a unlined tank.  It is the original tank that came with the bike in 1983, and since then the bike has been garaged and ridden fairly regularly (I use it to commute to work pretty much every day).  There are no signs of rust in the tank.

Others will have different stories, but I suspect my bike is one of the few that did not go into "long-term storage" behind a shed or something along those lines.

Brian

Quote from: RedBaron on November 27, 2011, 12:50:46 PM
... keep water out of the fuel system entirely by keeping it full of fuel and using a stablizer when storing the bike and running it monthly over the winter to keep "gremlins" out.

This is my chosen approach with the Baron, for what it is worth, and I'm very happy with it.

Quote from: Brian Moffet on November 27, 2011, 01:19:23 PM
For what it is worth, I also have a unlined tank.

:) DITTO....and DITTO  8)

IMHO, with the humidity here in TN and the variation in temps, I would go ahead and line it.  I too had a NOS tank that I wanted to keep as nice as possible for a very long time so I coated it.  The problem is, you only get one chance to do it and you really need to do it right the first time, so patience, preparation, and a bit more patience is paramount.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to coat a brand new tank than it is to strip, clean and coat a used tank.

just my 0.0175 cents...   ;D

David

the NON yamaha ignition model is likely the ignitec one which is the replacement of choice in Europe... if it runs leave it alone :)

I'm two months over due to pull the engine and start the teardown, inspection and rebuild. I'm taking the engine out now and have already run into a frozen rear muffler clamp so I've elected to go out of sequence and drop the engine hoping the back header will slip out as indicated in the OEM shop manual. Crossing my fingers cause everytime I have to ad lib it seems to tear parts up and cost more money.

I'm still waiting for the day that I read a "Hello from Utah" post.

VFan