Riders Of Vision

Hey everyone,
I finally got some time to start my next project. My poor old racebike has been collecting dust in my office for almost 10 years now.
Its time to get it running again and make it a sunny day rider. The goal of this thread will be to entertain a few vision dudes. As well as a motivator for me to keep moving on this project. I must say at the risk of sounding like a jerk, This will not be meant as an instructional on how to do the things I end up doing. The chain drive conversion is a very expensive task. And is not something your average dude can do. If you are a machinist already I'm sure you can figure it out and I am willing to share any measurements needed. I do not have drawings and step by step instructions. Anyone interested in doing a chain conversion should just take $500 bucks and burn it! If after that your still interested, Then your certifiable!! I cannot imagine at today's machine shop prices you could have the work done for less than 1500 bucks just for the chain drive conversion. Anyway that being said I will try to address questions you have.
A little history on the bike then I'll explain what I have got started with.
Its a 82 vision motor in an Yamaha FZR400 Aluminuim chassis with 650 cc JE pistons, (the 650cc kit requires machining the cases) corrilo rods, balanced crank, Megacycle full race cams. Polished ports and Mikuni Flat slide carbs. Last time I did a dyno pull it was making around 80hp. I won lots of club races and 5 class championships in the 90's With my best year in 97 going 14 for 14 main event wins at PIR here in Portland. Nobody beat me that year in any race. The bike was untouchable!! I was racing against Honda Hawks and Kawi EX's as the SV650 was not out yet. that year I also got 2nd at a few national races and the bike ran great, Never had a motor problem in the entire time I raced it.

Anyway last time I rode it at a track day 10 years ago, the chain drive started leaking a little oil. So the first order of business is to repace all the seals and fix the leak.
If the pictures are loading?? you will see the way the chain drive system works.
There is a seal held in place by 4 bolts into the case. Then the sprocket is custom made from machining down the stock helical gear, then a outer piece was slipped over that and welded on, machined down for a seal surface. As well as a bearing on the end inside it. Then the cover piece has a post on it that goes inside the bearing/sprocket. This accepts the side load as the cases were never designed to accept this load. I know of some dudes who have done this conversion without that outer bearing but this is the way mine was done. Then that outer cover bolts to the frame as well as the motor, so it becomes part of the motor mounting system.

I have removed it all and replaced the seal. Now I just need to reinstall that stuff and it should be good.

Next I want to build a new exhaust muffler system In the last picture you will see my pipe. This is prolly the 5 or 6th exhaust I have built for this bike. This is by far the best one I built. I just am going to change the mufflers to something a little cooler looking. The header system is going to stay the same. I had a Ducati exhaust on my bench one day and saw the way they collect both the front and rear pipes into a 4 way with the pipes then coming out to each side. I decide to copy that and bingo the next race I had to drop a couple of teeth off the rear sprocket as it was way faster down the straight. With this style you really don't have to be so concerned with the length of the headers as it all comes together anyway. The small pipes are 1.25" and the larger is 1.75" diameter. I am looking into the style of mufflers now. But I like the shorty megaphones out there and will consider those.
Thats about it for now, I need to get some mufflers on order so I can finish the pipes and get those off for ceramic coating.
Next will be a 2006 GXSR upside down front fork assembly with radial brakes. I plan on fitting that maybe next week.
I'll try to keep the postings coming. If the pictures are not loading please somebody tell me how to do it.
I choose file down below, but I don't see where to add them to the post.....
Cheers!

I see thepictures are loading so heres A few more of the bike in its current form.

Way cool!  Do you mind discussing your ignition system? 
What rear shock are you using?
More explanation of what you did inside the motor re. pistons, bore, head work, cooling, etc. (please)
What problems did you encounter that you didn't expect?
Were there anticipated problems that didn't happen?
Surprises?

Way cool!  Do you mind discussing your ignition system? 
Ignition is a stock CDI unit with Dyna coils.

What rear shock are you using?
Fox twin clicker. This a FZR400 chassis so it would do you any good on your stock chassis.

More explanation of what you did inside the motor re. pistons, bore, head work, cooling, etc. (please)
Pistons are custom made JE. Stroke is the same but bore is increased, I'll get back to you on the number, Cooling system is all stock including radiator. Head work is simply smoothed out the intake ports, no reshaping or anything crazy. I built the intake manifolds from the head to the carbs, Its just metal pipe welded and formed. Then smoothed inside.

What problems did you encounter that you didn't expect?
Not much, mostly pipe's cracking and stupid shit that broke. Nothing major in the motor ever broke. Everytime something broke I over engineered it and it never broke again.

Were there anticipated problems that didn't happen? None really.
Surprises? None really.

Very nice!!! Congrats on the great year in '97, too.   

so no burned stators huh? :>

Did not use a stator. I ran a flywheel with no magnets and was turned down to just the trigger points for the ignition. Super light and let the motor rev faster.
I would charge the battery between races and run a total loss system.

I have a brand new Yamaha stator I am going to install for the streetbike so I can look forward to the same trouble as the rest of you...

Thanks for that John.  That is some inspiring stuff.  I will be very interested in your fuel economy once you get it on the street.

Still going to run the flat slide carbs?

Did you figure what top speed your racer was capable of?

Still going to run the flat slide carbs?

Not sure yet. I have a set of stock carbs I and going to try. But it did run very well with these carbs.

Did you figure what top speed your racer was capable of?

Our track here are PIR in Portland has almost a 3/4 mile straight. I was radared more than once at 145.
I never had a speedo on it so thats all I can go by...
When I was racing a stock framed 550 vision the fastest I was radared was 112 and the speedo was indicating 130 plus.

John, I have had pictures of your bike on my wall for years. Nice to hear from you.  Wow...the seal actiualy seals around the sprocket. You are a brave man.

Anyone that goes fast enough to win races is a brave person.  I used to race in AFM in club races here in California back in the 60s and early 70s before races were so fast.  It was sheer terror, and then you learn how to go fast.  I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a Yamaha TR2 among other things.  It was fun/agony while it lasted.

I recall as a spectator at Laguna Seca watching Cal Rayborn and Yvon DuHamel going at it hammer and tongs, wobbling through the left hand turn below the corkscrew and turning lap times of 2:14, a new lap record (motorcycles) on the old short version of the track.  Since then they added an infield loop and lap times have been cut to well under 2 minutes.  It must be fearsome now. 

I'll tell you I endurance raced an R1 with over 145hp. That was terror :o  close to 170 down the straight.....
My XZR had such nice smooth power it was a real pleasure to ride. It would be interesting to see what the Yamaha Vision would be like now if Yamaha continued to produce and develop it.

The first time I saw a Vision I thought it should have been a 750.  I think Yamaha missed that one.  Then very shortly after it was introduced HD squealed and got tariffs levied on anything over 700 cc.

Well today I spent a couple of hours chasing that nut. Lucky for me it looks like Tiger might have one.
I also bought some super trick carbon fibre exhaust cans on ebay. So I am going to mount those up as soon as they show up....
Check em out
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140378049558&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MOTORS:1123
Those are just what I need to give it that modern look...

I'm trying to do at least one thing a day for my project, either ordering parts or installing parts.

I found some old photos of me racing my old vision.
I guess around 1988 maybe.

Quote from: johnclemens on February 03, 2010, 12:30:18 AM


I'm trying to do at least one thing a day for my project, either ordering parts or installing parts.

Haha, yeah. I try that too, lemme know if it works for you ;)  :D

Nice bike, man. I'm curious on more details on the chain drive. Can you post a simplified step by step? I'm curious on how you got a rear wheel to line up, i know its a different swingarm (and frame) though.

When I rebuilt mine, it was spend at least an hour Sat and Sun on it.  Usually turned into 2 - 3 hours on one day or the other, but I made progress.

I have had a couple of inquiries about pistons I am using...
I need to stress to you guys, The stuff on my bike will most likely not work for your bike.
While I am willing to share details about the machine. As I said at the start of this I am not creating a step by step instructional, I don't Think I could if I wanted to. You are either the type that can figure it out and have access to the machinery required to do it, or you have the mean$ to pay someone to do the machine work, in witch case he/she may do it they're own way.  With all due respect and I truly mean that. But to undertake a chain drive I cannot give you instructions. If you cannot figure out how to line up a rear wheel to the sprocket while doing a chain conversion..You may want to stick to just riding.  Just enjoy your Vision for what it is. Almost a 30 year old bike. If you want a twin with a chain, go buy a Sv650 Suzuki. Trust me you'll end up miles ahead in time and money.
Here is the info on the pistons I am using. They will not fit the stock connecting rods and the cases must be machined to accept the larger bore.
I am running Corrillo rods. I don't have the specs for those anymore. Sorry. Next time I have them out I will measure them.
Cheers

I think one of the most important points about the chain drive conversion was contained in the first paragraph, 'anyone thinking about doing a chain drive conversion should first take out $500 and burn it'. That will prove your commitment!

John, I can't speak for others, but from what I have gathered reading the responses these guys aren't asking questions about your project because they want to run out and do it to their Visions, they are genuinely interested and curious as to how you made all of this happen. Heavily engineered projects like this fascinate me and I love reading about them, does it make me want to go out and tackle something like this myself? Of course it does! Am I going to run out and try to tackle something like this myself? Heck no! I know I have to start with small stuff and learn the ropes.
I appreciate you sharing this project with us however, good luck and keep updating the thread with your progress. I have many much less complicated projects going right now, seeing someone who understands bikes so much inspires me to keep tinkering and keep learning.  ;)

No, I'm not going to try any of these modifications but as other's have said it really interesting reading your posts about what you did do and now hope to do. Yes, what could the Vision have been if Yamaha had not given up on it!

Ok Tonight I removed the stock FZR400 font end and checked the fit of the 2007 GSXR 600 front end.
I found that they are close but I will need new bearings.
Basically it amounts to checking the O.D of bearings on the stock front end steering stem.
Then checking the I.D. of the bearings on the new front steering stem. The you get new bearings with those ID's and OD's....  Of course the length of the steering stem also needs to be close as well. As well as the length of the forks. Since all of that is close, I should only need new bearings.
I'm heading out of town on business so it'll be a few days before I can get back to the old girl.
I think these forks are going to work great and the brakes are going to be awesome! I also can't wait to get those carbon fibre pipes mounted up.
Cheers

A whole bunch bigger fork tubes (wow!) should mean less flexing under stress.  Did the old forks give any problems?

The FZR 400 forks worked great really. Since I am going without a fairing on the front. My end look is going to be a street fighter style. The forks are big part of the front end style. Big upside down forks make it look more modern as well as working better. Also the big brakes that come on the new GSXR is what I am after. The FZR brakes were only a little better than stock vision brakes. Once I get the front mounted and take a picture you'll see what I am talking about. I still have not figured out what headlight I am going to run, But I like the Suzuki B-King its all swoopy and molded. If I can find one of those thats not super expensive I may go that route, Got to go catch a flight....Cheers!

Observed that the bolts on John's sidecovers appear to be anodized red and blue.  I've seen gold colored aluminum and thought that would be way cool for an eighty-three. Could anyone tell me where to get this hardwear?  Has anyone ever seen an anodized engine, imagine the whole engine being gold colored.   BDC

Gold anodizing would indeed look cool but you would have to disassemble the motor to do that, wouldn't you?  It would be much easier to blast the surfaces and paint them with that gold stuff they put on cast magnesium.  Remember Fontana brakes?  I think that would look more like a racer and less dressy than the anodizing.

Unfortunately Cast aluminium doesn't give a good finish when anodised.

Hey Re-Vision,
You can get any color bolts and nuts at www.tastynuts.com
they have it all.

Tastynuts? I visited the site and it is quite interesting, they have oil filler caps in eight or nine colors and I believe that you can get the twenty-seven mm that goes on the fared bikes with the rubber hose. Think some folks may have had difficulty finding those. Like everything else, its rather expensive.   Thanks John.   BDC

And they don't have a Vision or XZ550 listed.  But oddly they have an XZ500.  Wonder if they made a typo?

If anyone runs across the fairing bolts that attach the lowers on to the mounting brackets, let me know.

Thanks,
Brian

are they special bolts?

Yeah, the head is flat yet rounded, and about 3 times the diameter of the bolt itself...  Phillips head.

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1983-yamaha-motorcycle-vision-xz550rk-fairing/o/m8004sch207954

Item number 14.  Apparently Bike Bandit sells them for 5 a piece, they didn't used to..  It's the bolt on the right side that is out of focus in this photo.  You can see it has a fair collar on it, and the head is fairly large.  I lost one after my accident...

(http://www.pbase.com/moffetb/image/94197488/original.jpg)

Thank you for the heads up on that.. I wouldnt have known until I got there, or maybe ever...

How about just using a button head cap screw with an oversized washer crazyglued to it?  I think that will work as well.

hmmm... nice workaround.. I'll go to the local "jewelery",, uh, I mean, "hardware" store and see if the have anything that'll work. lol..

Quote from: vadasz1 on February 06, 2010, 12:34:18 PM
How about just using a button head cap screw with an oversized washer crazyglued to it?  I think that will work as well.

That's what I have now on one side.  It holds it on fine but the profile of the bolt is wrong...  You end up with a flat portion followed by the cap of the screw.  These bolts have a very smooth rounded (but mostly flat) profile all the way across.

Yeah I know, it's a nit...

Brian

frankly, up here,, a bolt and washer may cost as much as the 5 plus on the web site.. I know it sounds far fetched but.. I wouldnt be at all surprised...

Nice picture Brian do you have a close up picture of how/where the otherside bracket is attached ?

(http://www.pbase.com/moffetb/image/94289047/medium.jpg) (http://www.pbase.com/moffetb/image/94289047)

the bracket on the right side (picture to the right, click on to get about 3 more in different positions) attaches to the engine just behind the radiator tubes.  You can see it coming from behind the radiator tubes to the back of the bike and there is a a brace that curves around the frame below and the bracket that connects to the fairing above. Brian

(http://www.pbase.com/moffetb/image/94197498/large.jpg)

Thanks Brian your a star.

Being nitpicky here.  What you guys have been calling a bolt is actually a phillips head screw, albeit a very unique one.

Quote from: QBS on February 06, 2010, 09:06:14 PM
Being nitpicky here.  What you guys have been calling a bolt is actually a phillips head screw, albeit a very unique one.

...and not one that you can pick up at your local hardware store/supplier either ::)

Also sold as a pan-head bolt...  Ran across this definition:

Bolts are defined as headed fasteners having external threads that meet an exacting, uniform bolt thread specification (such as M, MJ, UN, UNR, and UNJ) such that they can accept a nontapered nut.  Screws are defined as headed, externally-threaded fasteners that do not meet the above definition of bolts.

Since these have a exacting, uniform bolt thread definition, I think they qualify...   ;D

But anyway, I am attempting to replace one.

I was under the impression that a bolt would only be threaded for the end portion whereas a screw has thread all the way up to the head. Doesn't apply to bolts/screws under 30mm long but say for a 60mm thread length, a bolt would have 30mm of thread where a screw would have 60mm. But there are always exceptions to these rules.
Like this roofing bolt, which looks like what your looking for Brian.-
(http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/70/p4766270_l.jpg)

you can buy anodized hardware many places, you can also go to almost any automotive store & buy kits with covers for the bolts & hoses/wiring.

Yeah, those roofing bolts are close, but the head is not large enough and they don't have the collar (which keeps the fairing lower from shifting under the bolt...)

I might just have to spring for the new ones.  If I do and they are correct I'll let people know.

Brian

  Hi,
   I am using a SS allen headed bolt with a large SS washer & rubber spacer beneath the head,on the top of the bracetI have a small spacer similiar to a thick washer.This takes the space of the extrusion below the oem style screw head.
          Cheers Ken S. ;)

Tonight I spent a little time working on the front end. I have ordered bearings I hope will fit....
And I also worked on the wiring diagram for my lights and switches.

Mostly though I needed to pull apart my old Porsche Transmission. Its been a little tough to shift and I am rebuilding it. So I pulled it apart tonight to see what parts I needed. Looks like its just the syncro rings and maybe a bearing.
I'll order those tomorrow. I need to get the motor back in before spring.
Too many projects!!

Hopefully I will have the Headstock back from the machine shop next week.The shaft in the middle was too short. The headstock on the FZR400 is longer than a 2007 Suzuki GSXR. So the machine shop will cut it and turn a shaft that will go up the middle with a shoulder. Then they will be welded back together and be a 1/2 inch longer. I'll shoot a couple of pictures after I get it back. You'll see how I did it.
Going to be out of town on business most of the week. I won't be able to do much on the Vision till the weekend.
Cheers

Quote from: QBS on February 06, 2010, 09:06:14 PM
Being nitpicky here.  What you guys have been calling a bolt is actually a phillips head screw, albeit a very unique one.

You say unique. The lowest phil screws on the lowers... Well mine are pretty common but with a LARGE HEAD and uses a rubber bushing to lock things in place and damp vibration. I guess they are the same as Brian's .

I got an evening to work on my bike tonight so I mounted up the Carbon pipes I scored on ebay.  Because they are made to go under the seat of an R1. They are a little strange mounted on the side. They have to go at a angle a little if I want to use the down pipes. Plus the labels are on the side kinda. I thought I would mock em up and see what they look like. I'm petty sure I could mount them straight up and down, but I would have to make a new pipe all the way up to the Carbon. . If you see in that one picture, I would just need to make a short connector pipe If they are mounted like this.

So what do you guys think about them mounted angled like. (if looking at the rear picture.) I know the right side is a little lower, I need to fine tune the mounts. They are just roughed in till I decide if I like it.
So, Like It?

Looks pretty good up an out of the way.  Not going to roast anything, so, clean!   You've done stuff like this before, huh. ;D

 :) Hmmmmm, I like... 8)

                 

Looks great John.  What's not to like?  But really, I don't see where you any other viable options. 

Glad to see you are moving forward with this, John.  #38 was a very cool looking machine in race form, and I'd definitely ride down to see/hear when it sees the light of day again.  Are you sticking with the same fuel tank?
Mark / Seattle

I worked on it a little last night. I am some what at a stand still. I am waiting for the machine shop to machine down the Suzuki steering stem.
Also I decided to go a another route on the back. I really didn't like the angled pipes, Also the tail section is a little too big and there really is no seat to speak of, Soooo,
I have decided to use a stock Vision taillight and cover. Then take stock seat and cut it down to a single seater.
I'll fill in those grab bar mounting holes on the tail. I think it'll look cool and it'll have some old vision lines...
Did I see someone who had removed those handles and smoothed that all out? Pictures please?

Anyone have a taillight assy they will donate/sell cheap? just top and bottom. no handles or Yamaha logo needed.

Other than that, I can't complete the exhaust till I complete the tail section. I can't complete the front end till I get the steering stem figured out.

I did..

Ok, now this is on a Vision frame, so your procedure may differ...

the tail mounts with the bolts thru the grab bars, so what i did was drop two bolts thru the top, anchor them down so they act as studs.  i used two cheap ikea type wrenches to keep them from turning because you cant't put a nut under them or they will sit too high where they mount on the fram. also, they can't move or they will crack whatever you fill the voids on the top with (i used Durhams water putty)

next, on the sides of the tail cone i installed nuts & run the bolts in from the inside. you have to leave a void to have room for the bolts again so the filler doesn't crack. i covered the installed bolts with grease & filled the voids. the grease allows you to back the bolts out without cracking the filler. fibergalss/bondo whatever you like to seal the whole thing in.

pics are here:
http://cid-bff952b9e3bde7b6.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/filling%20the%20tail%20voids?view=thumbs

--Lucky

Nice! Thanks Lucky. I love the fact that you did it in the Kitchen!!

I've got a tail light assembly I can pull off and ship down to you.  PM me your address.

Thanks for the offer!!! I was stoked to get going on this so I cruised the local junkyard and bingo. 30 bucks but I wanted to get going on it.
Check it out!!! I am really happy the way it fits this frame and the cut outs for the bolts are perfect for the pipe hangers. I just cut off the sub frame a bit. drilled some holes for mounting and it fit right on. I need to get some Dif spacers on the pipe bolts. Ones that are a little shorter to pull the pipes in a little bit more.  Also I will fill in the holes on the top and paint it.
Now I need to figure out how the hell to build a seat. But I think this tail piece looks bitchen!! I love the idea of using Vision stuff to tie in the old with the new. I might even use a square headlight....
I like the pipes mounted straight up and down too. I'll cut off the bent down tubes and build my own exhaust pipes to connect to the headers.
Cheers

John,  take the time to sand that tail piece and paint it. It looks correct when it's done. I have always said the 82's looked half assembled cause the factory would not paint the tail till the 83's came out. My 82 I painted the tail with pro quality stuff, and made the bike look complete. I think the pic is still in the gallery.  Even if you don't have the matching red paint. A good Black to match the frame might be worth it.  I like it so far...

Yep I planned on painting it Jason. I also did that to my old street Vision and your right it looks sweet. I will be waiting till I complete all the fab work and then paint everything.
As far as progress there is not much to report on. I am still waiting for the machine shop to lengthen the steering stem. Then I can complete the front end. Without the front end on I can't be sure about the level of the seat and tail section. Without them in the final location, I can't weld the pipes. So I am stuck! The machinist says by the end of the week.
Hurry up and wait....

I Got back to my project last night. I still have no triple clamps from the machinist. ::)
So I am trying to finish up the back end.

I got the final location of the tail piece so I can build the seat pan.
I have never done this before and found a few articles on the internet and took some info from all of them and came up with some of my own.
Hopefully it'll work out. I plan on having a shop do the foam and cover.

First off I made sure I covered everything I didn't want to get resin on.
Then I  tried to make a base to support the cloth and resin.
I simply shaped the cardboard with tape. I also added pop-cycles around the edge to raise the edge to give room for the leather to wrap around the bottom. As well as give a nice flat spot for the leather to be attached to the fiberglass.

I then covered the whole thing with metal foil tape. This is a trick I saw on the internet. It shape's nice and can be smoothed out. Then you wipe it down with wd40 so the resin does not stick to it. 

Then its just a normal fiberglass process.
Cut the mats first. Then spred a little resin on the surface and lay out the mats. Then you just spread some resin everywhere.
Lay another mat and spread some more.
By this time your feeling no pain and you kinda like the smell.. :P
Just keep repeating. One thing I read everywhere on every site about this process was not to use too much resin... So I took it easy with that stuff.

I did four layers. I know it'll take more but I didn't want to use it all up in case this pan was crap...
This morning I pryed it off and it looks pretty good.
Now I just rough up the surface with some 180 and  then add some more layers to thick'n it up but I think its gonna work.
I'll take a few pictures tomorrow after I trim it up.
Sweet!!

Also got my Radiator shroud trimmed up and fit.
Looks great and will give the front end a little Vision touch.
Hopefully the forks will clear it or I'll have to just take it back off.

Thanks to Tiger for the parts!

Ok, I got it all trimmed up and I think it looks great. I ended up with like 7 layers over the whole thing and maybe 4 or 5 more in the corners.
Total cost like about 35 bucks with tape, resin and stuff.
My first seat pan!

Any thoughts to adding some steel or aluminum braces to the more stressed parts?

Not sure about reinforcing the seat with steel...
It feels pretty solid and it has a lot of support under it. I think I'll have the upholstery shop look at it and see what they think.
You might be right though. I was thinking I could just add some more fiberglass.

I got the exhaust started last night. The mufflers were pretty long so I shortend them 2 inches. Now that they are in the final location I can start to connect my header to them.
Its pretty simple, I buy the mandrel bent U-bends and then just cut them up and weld them back together.
For the slip joint onto the muffler I just cut a slit lengthwise and spread it a bit. Wrap it around one end and weld it on. Then I carefully weld up the slit. It fits nice and tight and I have found in the past with such a free flowing exhaust it does not leak at all.
Some of the slip fits I'll use a spring to hold them together. This one will look better with a band clamp.

I just cut the u-bend to what looks close, then test fit, cut, test fit, file, test fit, Then when I get it close I tack it in place. Then do the next piece. Takes tons of time to get it to look good and have the fewest pieces/welds.

Got the pipes all tac'd up.
Just need to pull them off and weld them all up.
It went pretty smooth and only took about a 6 pack.

That is a SWEET looking project John!  8)

David

Thanks Yellowjacket!!
I'm pretty happy with the way its coming along. If my machine shop gets my steering stem done It'll start looking like a bike again.
I hope to be riding it this summer.
Once I get it all together, then I have to take it all apart again to send stuff for powercoating. >:(

Got the pipes all done tonight.
The right one ended up being a little tougher as it needed an extra bend to clear the swingarm.
I welded up everything and then smoothed it all out. I use a blending disc on a 4.5" angle grinder.
Takes awhile and makes a huge mess. However the pipes will look much better when ceramic coated.
This weekend I am going to make the License plate holder and start working on my new gas tank.
cheers!

So last night I had a few friends over to ogle my buddies new V-strom 1000. Booze was flowing and we were having a great time.
Then, CRASH!!!!
My Vision project fell/knocked off the bike lift.
Of course on the way to the ground it caught on my other bike lift that was 3 feet away.
Broke the tail assembly, Cracked/scratched my nicely painted tank cover and bent up my exhaust brackets. I crashed my new bike and it hasn't even left the garage. :'(
I get the feeling that this is going to stall this project for awhile.
F**K!
Anyone have another tailight assembly?

That sucks so bad... Man I wish I had one to help you out but I dont.. Shoot. You were doing so well,,, dont stop now! Minor set backs....

I can send you a tail light.

John Clemens, Tell us about your choice of the FZR400 chassis for your romping racer.  Was it 'handy' and available, or was it a specific choice.  Were there any other bikes you considered for the transplant?  What would you do differently if you were to do it all again?

I have a spare Vision motor and am considering making a project "really cool" street bike. 

So sorry to hear about your mishap.It is looking good though.

Well once again a ROV member has stepped up and donated a taillight. ;D
Thanks guys.

The FZR400 chassis was at the time the best handling sportbike built. We had already chosen that chassis and were looking for one when I mentioned it to a racer buddy of mine. He said I have one of those in my garage with a blown motor.
I talked him out of the bike and the XZR was born. FZR400 and XZ550 together made.....a Yamaha XZR650
It was a good choice as it fit very well. The bike would have continued to win races but Suzuki built the SV650 and it was pretty fast right out of the box. Mine bike was faster than the stock ones. But as soon as they started building them, mine was no longer fast enough. I would have had to dump a bunch more money into the motor and I had had enough anyway. I went supermoto racing instead. The bike has been collecting dust in my office for 10 years now and I had enough of just looking at it and I wanted to ride it again. without paying 200 bucks for a track day. So I started this.

Thanks again fella's for the parts.
It is going to be  a week or so till I get back to the Vision. I got my Transmission all done for my Porsche so I will be working on getting it back in service this week.
Cheers

Hey John,

I kind of remember you wanting to put it in a Hondawg chassis. A Hawk to be exact. I said no, no, no you want an FZR 400 chassis and sent you all those pictures of the Japanese bike, the Giladeross 750. Changed your mind real quick after seeing that piece of work. Now you have a real piece of work and it's going to be a awesome street bike. Nice work on everything.

Jeff

Not a lot to report on, as I've been busy working on my car lately. I continue to have transmission troubles but thats another blog. 8)

After the fall, Yet another ROV member stepped up and donated a brake light. Thanks Bob! Hopefully this one lasts longer than the last.
I got the pipes straight again. One had to be cut and re welded. Thats how bent it got! I also had to straighten the subframe as it got pushed over. I crashed a few times while racing and never did this much damage.  ???
At this moment I am back where I was 2 weeks ago.
I also started the body work on the tail. I used epoxy to hold a couple of nuts in place first. Then I just filled it with bondo. A layer at a time. When its mounted the bolts will come up from the bottom and you won't see em.

Still no front end from the machinist. Why do they tell you it'll be a couple of weeks when it takes a couple of months for the dude to get to it? Going to start on the wiring harness next I think.
Cheers

Ok I've got a bunch of projects wrapped up around the house. I'm now back at working on the Vision.
I got the front end all mocked up. The machinist dude did a great job and it fits sweet. I had to have the top bearing machined down as well as the stem lengthened,That was a bit of work but it fits perfect. When I take it back apart I'll shoot a few photos of the stem to show you how that was done.  I now have a 2006 GXSR 600 front end. with all the brakes and everything. :o
Since I am not running the clip on handlebars, I had to machine the top triple clamp to accept the bar mounts. I have a little lathe/mill smithy machine and it worked great for this. I got enough clearance for the nuts and still kept the posts for the ignition assembly.
So I've got the front end just about complete. Next I'm going to work on the headlight mounting and gauges.
Cheers!

And to think , John I once accused you of being a man of few words!  Seriously, thanks for the post. I really enjoy reading about the Visions of Visions. Wish I still lived in Stayton , I'd love to come up and see it it person!

John, thank you so much for this thread.  I can't wait to read your report on the finished product.

Thanks guys, Glad to see you enjoying it.
Anyone local is welcome to come by and have a beer. I work by myself almost all the time so having someone to BS with is nice.
Just email me and we'll set it up.
I also do work on bikes if anyone local needs work on any of their machines.
I am less than half the cost of dealers and I'd like to think I know what I'm doing.
Most work can be done while you wait.
John

Ok guys I need some opinions.
Modern headlight or old school. I'll be getting a round one next week to see what that looks like.
What do you guys think looks best of these two? I was going to make a small wind screen to cover the gauges and kinda continue the line on top of that swoopy headlight. It go just back to the bars or so. But I'm not too sure if I like the looks of it. ???
I did lower the modern headlight a little after the pictures, But because its pointed on the bottom it can't go too low as it'll hit the fender when I drop it down from doing wheelies!! ;D

Between what you call the "modern" headlight and the original, I very much prefer the original.  The "modern' style is flat out ugly even on the bike that it was designed for.  

There was a V in the gallery that used a Ducati Monster headlight that I have always thought looked good.  The Monster light is large enough around to balance out the size of the stock V tank.  Of course your bike shares very little of the V's original styling so maybe the Ducati light wouldn't work.

Given the angularity of your bike, I think the original light would probably work the best from a visual standpoint.  A period Shark handle bar mounted fairing similar to what Yellow Jacket wears might work well with the original light.

Thanks for asking us to participate, even if from afar.

LOL don't hold back QBS. Tell me how you really feel. I can take it. ;)
Its off of a Yamaha FZ1N sold in Europe its the naked version of the FZ1 we have here.
I'll admit it doesn't look like I thought it would when I ordered it....

The original V headlight looks good and gives the bike a nice 80's feel to it. That being said, The fz1 headlight goes nicely with your tank and probably provides better lighting...

And.... Your taillight is off a Vision, so it could be poetic (for lack of a better word) To use the headlight from a Vision.

At first I thought the modern looked better.  But the more I look at it the more out of place it looks.  I'd say use the original, unless you actually plan on riding a lot at night.  If you need a refresher on how mediocre the light output of the original is, I'll ride down this weekend...

The Stock Vision HL is more than adequate, if you install a 100/130 off road bulb . I've used one for 8 years. really lights up the nite. No, its not DOT approved, but then the DOT isn't;t riding my bike.

Sheesh, I thought I was resistant to change and stuck in the past! Looks like I'm gonna' have to be the voice of reason here.  ;)

I think the stock headlight is the weak link in an otherwise well executed custom bike. Unless you are going for a dated 80's retro look I'd go with the other. Unless the "upside-downsky" forks, box section frame, modern rims/tires, etc are part of the "retro" look, I think the modern light should not be summarily dismissed.

Yes, it is radically different than a stock Vision, but it's not a Vision. It has the heart of a Vision but is something very different too. Perhaps with the proposed wind screen it will bring the look together and fit the bikes unique character.

my 2 cents plus some due to inflation

I'm kinda surprised you guys put large bulbs in your headlights. Yes they light up the night. I have used them in all my other bikes. But never in a Vision.
That does not help your stator. The biggest draw on the stator is the headlight. Then you almost double its draw....

John, my understanding of how the Vision charging system works is that it is a total loss system.  That is, the stator allways puts out a constant amount of power and the regulator shunts any unneeded power to ground. 

Maybe I don't have it right.  But if I do, then any additional power used by the headlight wound mean less power that would have to be handled by the regulator and maybe that would even extend the life of the charging system!

pat sullivan

+1 for Pat.  I've been running a 130/100 for at least the last 17 years and have not had a stator issue in at least the last 12 or maybe even longer.  I even run the stock 10 amp fuse rating with zero issues. 

Do you have a source for that bulb? Or part #

Thanks, Dan

Well that shows my Electrical knowledge. :P
I always thought more draw meant more heat in the system. I guess I'll stick to working with metal.
Maybe its the Regulator that I'm thinking it hurts. I'm certain there is a limit on current draw. You will fry something if you start hanging extra lights and heated vests, grips, stuff like that.
Thanks for the correction.

Dan, You can get those bulbs all over ebay. In blue or white

John, if you have the capability, you could measure the power draw off the stator and finally answer this question  ;D

I personally don't believe it is a constant draw anymore.  I think it depends on whether the wave-form is higher than 14 volts or not whether it is a constant draw.  If higher than 14 volts, it is constant. If lower, depends on the load on the bike. However, I haven't tested this out.

Brian  (used to think it was a constant draw and then I did some research on regulators.)

John, from my understanding of the systems' function, if one were to exceed the amperage output of the V alternator with excessive amperage draw, the only result would be a battery that would eventually end up depleted.

I've run the things since '02 with no problem. I jest need to see where I'm goin'

Quote from: johnclemens on July 16, 2010, 08:07:01 PM
Well that shows my Electrical knowledge. :P
I always thought more draw meant more heat in the system. I guess I'll stick to working with metal.
Maybe its the Regulator that I'm thinking it hurts. I'm certain there is a limit on current draw. You will fry something if you start hanging extra lights and heated vests, grips, stuff like that.
Thanks for the correction.

Dan, You can get those bulbs all over ebay. In blue or white

The stator is always under 100 percent load (permanent magnet alternator, full field 100% of the time) and the regulator just dumps what it doesnt need essentially. The more power you use from the regulator, the less it has to dump and the less v-drop you get across the circuitry in there which leads to less heat. You would end up just draining the battery if you ran too much stuff off it.

Ok I stand corrected, again.
Like I said I am no electrician.
Thanks.

I've seen this discussion before (outside of this forum) and find it interesting although It's admittedly beyond my understanding of electrons and there habits. Some of the articles I've read start with the disclaimer that the goings on inside the R/R are conjecture since the manufacturers keep certain proprietary circuitry/components unpublished. This has me wondering if anyone really knows precisely what's going on in there!

Just cause I like playing the devils advocate...What if the stator isn't under load 100% of the time despite having a permanent magnet? What if (through resistors set to different thresholds) the 3 stator legs are sequentially shut down (ie grounded) to limit output as system (DC) voltage increases? When grounded, is current actually produced to be "dumped" to ground?  Under this scenario, the alternator does not have output at a constant 100% but rather is monitored and modulated to keep the eventual DC output within predetermined thresholds.

While all this makes for fascinating discussion, I try not to think about it while riding. Personally, if my gage is reading 13-14 volts and the various connections aren't melting, I'm happy.  ;D

Quote from: Rikugun on July 19, 2010, 11:27:49 AM
What if the stator isn't under load 100% of the time despite having a permanent magnet?

When a permanent magnet generator is spun at a constant speed, you get a constant AC voltage (meaning the RMS Voltage is always the same). You do not get a constant current though.  Since the Voltage is constant, the current is dependent on the resistance drawing on that voltage.  The lower the resistance the higher the current.



Brian

Well the whole discussion is moot anyway, the whole problem for why the vision keeps blowing stators is the wires coming from the stator core are the wrong diameter and color.
The virago i took the stator from had YELLOW wires that were SLIGHTLY larger in diameter, and that stator was fine, how can you explain THAT?

Inane, I think you are onto something there... the wire diameter anyway...   
Since a larger wire can carry more current than a smaller one (without overheating) perhaps the final solution is a stator with a small amount less of a slightly larger diameter wire with high temp insulation.
Steve

I was just kidding doctor, i just get so burnt out on the stator discussions. Alot of ideas but no solutions.
Someone should just fit a PTO and run a car alternator and be done with it.

Quote from: inanecathode on July 20, 2010, 05:05:01 PM

Someone should just fit a PTO and run a car alternator and be done with it.

Someone did a long time back... sorry, don't remember who, probably in the archives, but i know it was ugly as hell! lol

Ok off of the sator stuff and back to my problem of what headlight to put on this butcher up bastard child.
The stock Vision headlight is still in the running, but what do you think of this one?
I like it more and more.
The scale is right on. It kinda follows the lines of the frame from the side. It also has a flat spot on top for my digital gauge panel.
I stuffed it with packing paper to kinda hold it in place.

Ok let me have it. Yea ;D or nay  :-[

I will buy you a beer if you know what model this light came off of.....

I LIKE IT. looks like a one of them small honda mopeds from th 60;s

Well John, it's not as "flat out ugly" as the previous candidate.  But, I'm still rooting for either a large round unit or the stock unit.  It might help us if we knew what your plans were for the paint scheme.  Will the frame be painted and if so, will the tank be painted to match?

 I like the dream lite, you got the rest, is the bulb easy?

So SV, you're thinking Honda Dream source.  You must go way way back.  Could be a good call.  No doubt John will reveal all in good time.

Looks like CA 77 or 72 to me too.  Not a first choice if any night riding is in the cards.

 Yea, QB, I remember when the Dead Sea, was only Sick

You guys are close. I'm impressed. Honda CA-95 (150 Dream)

I like it! I think its going to be the one. I will modify it a bit, but I like the look and scale.
I can get the glass on ebay. Also I will modify it to fit a H4 bulb. I really don't plan on doing any night riding other than home from some bike event.... I don't do allot of night riding on any of my bikes anyway. Cept when I'm touring and thats not going to be on this rig.

I tried some round ones. It just doesn't look right. And the Vision stocker is just a bit too big.

The small round one would work. But I just don't care for it.
The big round one is horrible.

John, I got looking at your bike and the thought came to me that if you're running the stock radiator, the addition of the stock radiator shroud might help the look of the bike.  Sort of give it a sleeper stock look and hide its' race track roots.

Insert Quote
John, I got looking at your bike and the thought came to me that if you're running the stock radiator, the addition of the stock radiator shroud might help the look of the bike.  Sort of give it a sleeper stock look and hide its' race track roots.

I agree, check out page 4 of the post....
Its just off right now. It may not work though, the forks hit on it at full turn. After I install some steering stops though it might work out.
I'll have to wait till the front end is complete. I may change the radiator yet.

Not much work on the Vision lately as I've been enjoying summer.
Did a track day yesterday on my Ducati.
Check out my video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ULQw6sOlek
That supermoto that passes me holds the lap record I've be told.

Cool video. It's amazing how a little supermoto thumper can make a big bore sportbike look silly in the twisties.

Also its a 20 year old Ducati on 2 year old street tires.
Piloted by a 45 year old, out of shape guy who has to work on monday.

The supermoto is on racing slicks and has a fearless 17 y/o at the controls...

Understood, and my comment was in no way a slight to you or the Duck.

Still, all things being equal, the lighter SM will probably spank the larger sport bikes.

Your right, I could go way faster around the track on my KTM as I could on my Ducati.

Now that the rain has move in I have been working again.
Got the Headlight all done. Really like the look of it.
I just cut out the raised gauge panel and key lock hole.
Then I welded in a patch. Then skimmed with bondo.
I didn't want any mounting tabs attached to the fork tubes so I made a bracket that comes out from the key Lock bolts on the underside of the top triple clamp. I still need to make a mount for the bottom, but I am gonna wait till I get the front brake line done so I can incorporate a brake line holder.
I think it looks pretty clean.

I was removing the SuperMoto wheels from my KTM and leaned the wheel against the Vision and hmmmmmm. So I slid them on the axles and bingo.
I likey very much!

So I started making the spacers to fit the wheels. I use a $300 cheap lathe/mill thingy. Works great for stuff like this. You can get them all day long on Craigslist.
The KTM uses spacers inside the bearings and the axles on the bike are slightly smaller. So it makes it pretty easy. I just need to make spacers with a smaller I.D. and a bit longer as the hub is smaller than the cast hubs from the cast wheels. So I just measure the width of the wheel coming off and make spacers to match for the wheel going on. With the new I.D. for the axle. Takes a few hours to do the first one with set up and all. But after that the next few go quick.
The one on the left is the new one. 1mm smaller I.D. and 14mm longer.

I wanted to make an under tray for the sub frame.
I used some ABS sheet plastic before on my racebike and it worked good.
Only the tire rubbed once in a while. ABS is heat formable plastic.
So I had this great idea to heat it up and form it a bit. After trying to free hand it with a heat gun and the back side of the fender to push into the palstic..... It didn't work. The heat warps the plastic cause it doesn't heat evenly. So I made a form and I am going to try heating the plastic sheet in the oven so its heated evenly. then I'll pinch it between the wood and push on the plastic with the back of the fender to bow it a bit down into the form....
Only problem is I need to wait till the wife is gone to use her oven ::)
If she new I was melting plastic in her high dollar oven....
I'll let you know how the 2nd try comes out.

Success!
Heating the entire piece is the trick.
300 for 5 minutes.  I then put it over the cut out.
Then screwed the larger hole down.
I then pushed down in the center with an old fender I had. SO it would have a nice curve.
I could feel the plastic giving. It was pretty simple. I kept pushing down for about a minute. I could easily feel the plastic stiff'n up.
Then I let it cool for about an hour just to be sure.
Trimmed it up and it fits great. I'll get some nice bolts on final assembly.

Not sure if you can see it in the pictures.

nice work there with the headlight JC!!

Thanks Raj!
Its still a ways off but I'm getting stoked to ride it...

i think i can safely say that i speak for most, if not all of the member here when i say thank you for putting in the effort and sharing your very unique project with us.
Your early post on the exhaust system played a big part in my studying the science behind making my own


Keep it up

Hey John, do you have any videos, or links to videos of you riding your Vision when it was a race bike? I have have put in a few searches on youtube and google and haven't come up with anything.
I just think it would be interesting to see what a race vision can do  :o ;D

Nope, Wish i did.
When I was racing the video camera's were those big shoulder mount things and few people had them.
I'll be making a video when I fire it up for the first ride.

Got a little done this weekend.
I didn't have a kickstand on my race bike so I had to sort that out.
I re-made the left down tube to incorporate a kickstand pivot.
I also shortend the kickstand a little so the heel would fit in a bevel from the stock kickstand pivot area.
I think it worked out good. The front corner may drag if I was racing it, But for the street and the fact I'm a old guy now it should be fine.

Got all the wheel spacers done for the front and back wheels. ;D
I had to space over the front disk so it would line up with the calipers.
In the past you would make a spacer for the calipers and its no problem.
Now with radial mount calipers they cannot be moved side to side. I had to space over the Disk.
Took a long time to cut out this piece. I cut it with a $15 dollar skill jigsaw. What a pile. It was smoking at one point.
Turned out great after some filing and sanding.

Then I wanted to use a big disk I already had but it was a 220 mm and stock GSXR600 disks are 210mm. So I made spacers to move the calipers out 5 mm. They were a little tricky as they had alignment shoulders. But I lucked out and made em both on the first try.
So the front end is pretty much done except for a brake line.

Lovely work there...and very inspirational! Some good ideas for custom and certainly creative work.

Thanks for the great pics.

Thanks Louie!
Haven't been doing much on the bike over the Holidays. The wife had vacation for the last two weeks. No shop time for me. >:(
I have aquired all the electrical stuff now. so thats the next step, build the electrical system. When I was racing it, I had a total loss system. I just charged the battery between races. Now I need all that other stuff. Lights, signals,switches....
I bought a high dollar Lithium battery. weighs less than 2 lbs. But more importantly is tiny. like 2" X 4" X 8" They say its enough power to start big 1000cc twins.
My plan is to have all the electrics under the front half of the tank cover. Thus leaving the entire area under the seat empty.
I think it looks cooler with that open and it also looks lighter. First I need to build a system to hold the coils,CDI,battery,relays and that stuff.  So thats next. Now that the wife is back to work, I'll be too. ;D

BTW I'm having a Supercross viewing party this Sat night in the garage. "beers and bikes" Anyone in the Portland area is welcome to come.
Cheers.

John,

This is an awesome build thread and I'm glad that you are sharing your experience with us.  Keep up the great work.  Its wonderful to see people think outside the box in regards to the Vision.

David

John you mentioned using a "CDI" for your streeterized V race bike .  When you were racing, did you use the stock TCI system or something else.  If so, why?

Thank you so much for your build thread.  I am thourghly enjoying it.

 Thanks for the up date on your cool project,  just yesterday I was listening to a vid on how much weight you can save with one of the batteries!  He was stressing how their is no more cost effect way of dropping that much weight off the bike, not to mention the less space it takes.  He also was saying, just have one battery and then share it between your fleet. Sound cool to me, my current AGM is has been in the Vision for 99 months.

TCI or CDI I use those terms as the same. Sorry if its wrong. I just stuck doing it.
Anyway I run the stock TCI box and aftermarket Dayna coils.
Its always work well.

Thanks David!
I'll have some updates by the end of the week. I plan on working hard on the bike this week.
Cheers

Quote from: supervision on January 09, 2011, 09:44:10 AM
  Sound cool to me, my current AGM is has been in the Vision for 99 months.

WOW! I want one of those batterys!  that's over 8 years!!   :D :D  I don't think i have underwear that old!!.. wait maybe..  lol  ;D

Lucky, Supervision is talking about a AGM Advanced Glass matt battery. These are fantastic batteries. Altho they are heavier than stock lead acid or gel cel. They last forever. They can be recharged even after months of being flat.

The one I got for my bike is a new Lithium type battery. it is super lightweight. like less than 2 lbs. and very tiny.
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/products.html
I don't think I would get one of these for a stock Vision. while they have good power. They don't have the amount of Cranking amps regular batteries have. So for a finicky running bike like a stock vision. If it did not start on the first 2 or 3 attempts you'll be SOL.
On a new R6 or CBRGSXRKZR whatever... With Fuel Injection those things start instantly every time. That really what these batteries are made for.
I am installing one simply because of its size. I am trying to have electrical and everything under the gas tank.

If I was buying a battery today I would get a good AGM. it will last forever if you keep it charged. And it will crank your bike for a long time when it doesn't want to start right away.

I feel like a lazy slob. I did nothing to my bike last week. I ended up playing Halo Reach 3 nights last week.... While I love Halo its an utter waste of time. I'll be playing tonight if anyone here plays ;D
Gamertag "Jakeodoule" send me a friends request.

I'm still waiting for my battery and electrical supplies for building the harness.
My next step will be to build all the metal support structure for the battery,coils,CDI, relays and everything.
The battery is on back order, so until I have that I can't plan out my electrical framework.

I'm one of those guys that goes like crazy on something.... then does nothing on it for a bit...
I also have to rebuild my rear suspension on my old Porsche before summer. One side is so played out the tire is rubbing on hard cornering.
I'm also running low on spare $$$ for this project and some of the most expensive stuff is left. Stuff I have to pay people for, Paint and powdercoating.
Its looking more and more like I won't be riding this Vision till next spring 2012. >:(
But I WILL keep after it and finish it. I might get to ride it this summer once quick before taking it apart for Paint.

I haven't gotten allot done in the last few weeks. Lost interest and have been doing some dirt riding.

Got the gas tank just about completed. Its not going to be very big. Just under 2 gallons. But I don't plan on touring with the bike, I have others for that.
Since the sides of the frame are going to show without a fairing. I am going to have some holes filled and I need to weld some tabs on the frame.  so I decided to have it dipped to get rid on the powder coating. I know you can get it off with ovencleaner or paint stripper.
However its crazy messy and takes a ton of time and you NEVER get it out of all the little corners. So I am paying to dip it.
Heres what the bike looks like now.

It'll be a week or so for dipping and then I can get back to work.
Cheers.

While the frame is away I started finishing work on some other parts.

I got the headlight all done. Modified the bulb to accept an H4. I had a broken lens from my KTM. So I cut the back off and glued it to the other. Pretty straight forward. I then made a back and mounts. The top mount attaches with the same bolts as the key ignition in the top triple. The little T on top holds my gauge panel.
The bottom mount doubles as the routing for the brake line.
I didn't want any clamps or stuff on the fork legs so they look cleaner.
The pictures make it look like its away from the forks but its as close as the headstock allows.
I'm pretty pleased with the way it turned out.  ;D

brilliant job with the mounting for the light

Looks good! I hope the "loss of interest" is just a temporary thing. I know it takes a lot of time but your project is quite unique and I hope to see you finish it. Is the elongated hole in the back for wires to run through?

Unrelated to the build...   Is the tire vise original to your lift or an aftermarket find? I've been looking for one and it looks very substantial.

Thanks guys. Yep the hole in the top is for the wires from the gauge panel as well as ignition.
oh and I WILL finish it. It may be next winter but I will stay after it. I just have too many projects and hobbies.
I bounce from one to the other all the time. I will be laying off the bike for a bit as I need to rebuild my Porsche suspension.
Starting that next week so I can drive it this summer.

The vise can be had at Handy industries.
I have two lifts.  ;D ::) one Hdyro foot pump Harbor freight special That I made a custom top for. As it came from HF it was just about useless. The top would bend if you put anything over 300lbs on it and the vise was a joke. I made a new top and added the Handy vise. The other lift is a Handy industries air lift. These are the ones you see in most dealerships. They are not cheap but will last forever and are made in America i think. $1100 bucks! When I am done with it in 25 years I'll bet money it'll still be working fine. They're proud of they're stuff, but everything I've seen from them is very good quality. You be surprised how much you use a adjustable hieght table when you have one. I use it for all my projects. Bikes or not.
http://www.handyindustries.com/products/cv-17-cycle-vise
http://www.handyindustries.com/

Thanks for the info. I have a hydraulic "foot-pumper" made in the 60's(?) by an Italian manufacturer. It looks very similar to the HF units. I bought it in the late 80's from a dealer that was upgrading to the pneumatic ones. Mine has no vise so I'm (finally) looking  to add one.

Good luck with the Porsche project and post some pics too!   :)

I know that this is the premier V spot on the net.  However, a few pictures of the Porsche suspention rebuild be nice.

Your V project is outstanding, the dream of every upstanding V afficionado.  Thank you very much for making it come true for us.

Is that a CX650e in the background in the picture of the engine. I always wanted to have one of those, but they never imported them. How did you come into yours if it is one?

Jeff

come over to canada and pick one up!! they go from anywhere between 500 to 2500

Yep. 1984 CX650E  Good spot!
I bought it 14 years ago from the dude who imported it brand new.
Back in the 8o's it wa pretty easy to import a bike and get a plate for it.
Now its not that easy.
It is more or less showroom condition with 35,000 kicks on it.
It is alot of fun to ride and the attention it gets is amazing.
It my favorite street bike I own. Even over my Ducati's
John

Damn thats nice looking!

David

David, that bike rides like a dream.. Sweet sound and feel, very stable at all kinds of speed and the power delivery is AWESOME... It is a bit more top heavy than the Vision but corners almost as well

I sure would like to find a nice one that was for sale and already in the states. I really like those european comstars. How does it perform compared to a Vision?

Jeff

Careful what you ask for...
There is a dude here locally that has/had a white/red one for sale.

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_cx_650_e_1984.php

very nice condition with US registration. I think he was looking for 3500
If you really want one this is a really nice example that needs nothing.
I would be happy to help with shipping.
His contact info vintrace@comcast.net

I know him personally and would trust him on his word.

Yikes, that link is pop-up/pop-under hell  :(

Sorry, link works ok for me.
Its not the bike for sale, just a picture of a white/red CXE
You'd have to email at the address I gave if your interested.

According to the specs the CXE is some heavier than the Vision. Looks nice though.

Got the parts back from the dipper/stripper.

Check out the crack in my swing arm! This is the pivot area.
Last time I rode the bike I won my race riding as fast as I could, with this crack in the swing arm.... :-[ :-X :o

WOW, can that be fixed safely?

Ok after checking with some racer buddies and a few welders they all think the swing arm can be welded no problemo.
After all it is welded from the factory right?

Anyway I finished making the brake stay so he can weld that at the same time.
Since I changed the wheels to ones off of my KTM SuperMoto I decided to use a KTM rear brake assembly.  If I used the FZR brake assembly I would have had issues with the disk offset and diameter. This is less machining. Also I can swap the wheels back to my KTM with little effort if I want to do a track day or race again.

KTM uses a post on the swig arm to hold the caliper from rotating. Instead of a bar like Yamaha.So I made the post and drilled all the way through the swing arm.
I was worried if I welded it right on the surface it might snap off. That would be bad!
Pretty straight forward really, I made it using my 3n1 smithy lathe/mill. I can't believe how many times I have paid for that tool.
I bought it for 350 bucks and its worth every penny.

Now I just need to drop the swing arm off at the welder and it should be good to go.
Then I can go back to the mock up and build the electrical system.

Got my frame back. I had all the holes filled on the sides. The dude did a pretty good job.
I can weld aluminum, however I'm not confident at it so I paid a dude to get it done.
You can see in the first photo the frame had at least 4 holes on each side. a couple were 3-5 inches around. The FZR had a fairing that covered everything so it didn't matter. Now that I am not running any fairings I wanted it to look smoother.
Plus it'll make it even harder for people to figure out what the hell it is. ;D

After I built that nice brake stay post...
I found a newer style swing arm on Ebay. The FZR400 used a Deltabox swing arm in the latter years.
Its much cooler looking! Now I have to remake the brake stay.
My new goal to be done is spring 2012....

I'm waiting to see the finished product.. keep up the great work and the detailed documentation

CHEERS

Well after taking most of the summer off of my project I am getting back to finishing the Vision.

I got most of my controls sorted. The switches are a push button style machined from billet.
The mirrors are CRG product. the front brake is a Brembo unit sized for a single disk front end. $$$ stupid money.
the signals are bar end and can be seen from the front or back. So i will not have any other turn signals on the bike.
All of the wires for the switches and signals go into the bar and out the middle bottom. Then they go under the gauge panel and into the headlight assembly. No wires showing for anything on the controls/bars!

Hopefully I will start making progress again and I'll be sure to keep you all in the loop as I go.
Cheers

Ok got the fuel tank pretty much done.
I needed a 1/4 NPT thread for my petcock. So I picked up a plumbing fitting and turned it down to clean off the galv. and make it look nicer.
Then I took a stock fuel tank and cut the bottom off. The vision motors rear head is where the fuel was on the fzr400.  So I  fabricated a new bottom and welded it on with the fitting I made. Its not very big but I really don't plan on riding it far. I also thought I do I have one of those little hand crank pumps. They work amazingly well and can transfer like a gallon a minute. I'll just take that and one of my buddies will hook me up.

Then I needed to test for leaks. So I installed a air regulator and a fitting in the petcock hole.
With very little pressure (like 5lbs) I can feel the air coming out some pinholes. Then I used some soapy water for the finer holes.
kept welding up the holes till I found no leaks.  ;D I'm going to use cream in it as well. Just for insurance.

Now I need to make some mounts, That should be pretty straight forward.

Really? your going to use Kreem?  go for an epoxy like POR-15 instead of latex..you'll be much happier..

Love these posts! the bike is going to be Awesome!

Yes thanks Lucky.
I was just using the name as a generic term.

Both Por15 and KBS stuff is very good products. II have used both.
Much better than the Kreem stuff.

Any updates John? Looking fwd to seeing that bike complete :D

Quote from: Raj1988 on June 10, 2012, 12:40:13 AM
Any updates John? Looking fwd to seeing that bike complete :D

My wife and I moved from Portland OR to Des Moines Iowa a couple of months ago. Between packing, moving and finding a house.
I have done nothing the last 4 months. At the moment everything I own is in storage. We found a home and close in about 10 days.
I can't wait to get my shop set up and working again on all of my projects.
My new shop is a little smaller than my old one but should be nice. 25x36 with heated floors for the cold winters.

Good news is with my new Job I have extra money to finish the Vision. Bad news is it may not be till this winter. I also have to find a painter here in the Des Moines area to do the paint work. I have most of the hard work done and I should be on easy street to get-r-done.

I will finish it! I promise. I also owe some rides to a few of you who supplied a part or two.
Thanks for checking in!

Can I get a ride too for Checking in?

Also ... can you recommend any resources that I can refer to while designing an exhaust for my XZ?

Raj, designing an exhaust system for the XZ will be a test of your tenacity, skill, and welding ability.  One of my friends had a try at doing that since he had made many systems for other bikes.  The real hurdle is the rear cylinder, trying to get it to flow as well as the front.  The problem is part of the frame is in the way, unlike that frame used by John Clemens.  (A crafty lad is he) 

Either modify the stock frame to make room the exhaust or make/adapt another frame design.  So far every exhaust design for the XZ I have seen has relied on use of the "Y" pipe, which is part of the breathing problem. 

This guy made one.

http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=9326.0

That's the one with the larger fiberglass tank and fuel level windows - way cool!  :)

I made an exhaust for my stock framed racer. It is not that hard to make a Y pipe for the rear cylinder. You use 1 1/4 pipe. Just buy mandrel bends. Then you cut them up and weld em back together. Then you use 1 3/4 pipe after you come together with the smaller pipe.  Very similar to the exhaust work on this build thread a few pages back. Believe it or not the exhaust on this FZR framed bike is tighter back for the rear cylinder than the stock frame one. It is pretty basic work altho time consuming. You of course have to have a welder. I use both a wire feed and a torch. I tack the pieces in place then weld them with the torch. I find I have better control with the torch using a 0 tip.
If I have a tig then thats what I would use.

I like the idea and look of an under engine exhaust , but a lot of tight bends would be involved for the rear cylinder.

Yes I am back to working on the project!
We are pretty much settled here in Iowa and my shop is dialed in. My job sends me traveling allot so work on the XZR will be spotty. But I am getting close plus I am getting more motivated and that means it will go faster.

Looks like I got my electrical pretty much all mounted. Its not pretty, but it really cannot be seen when the tank cover is in place. My goal is to not be able to see any electrical at all. The sub frame in the back is going to be open under the seat so nothing can be back there either. That really only leaves room up front.

The M-Unit Digital controller I am using replaces all of the relays except the starter relay. It makes for easier and cleaner wiring. It allows use of LED's or regular bulbs. It can be programmed to use 1 button switches. You will see more on that when I get it wired. Its a pretty slick unit. Only weird thing is it has to be mounted vertical for the alarm function to work.
I hung the regulator under the plate so it will get some fresh air

Hers the info on the M-unit if your interested. Its not cheap.
http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/electronic-control-box-m-unit/m-unit-digit-tastersteuerung-u-sicherung.html

Anyway you can see I pretty much got everything mounted to one plate that bolts in above the front cylinder.
I used steel because I don't have a Tig welder. I'm not too worried about the weight as that battery saved about 15 lbs. Plus I'm not racing it.

Today I am going to clean it all up and and paint it.

Oh good you'r back!

Very neat job there

Quote from: johnclemens on January 01, 2013, 09:32:20 AM
Only weird thing is it has to be mounted vertical for the alarm function to work.

Nice looking Unit - esp with m-button and the RFID m-lock.
Looks from manuals like that orientation issue was removed for the V2 do you have an old version?

Quote from: roro on January 05, 2013, 05:33:17 AM

Quote from: johnclemens on January 01, 2013, 09:32:20 AM
Only weird thing is it has to be mounted vertical for the alarm function to work.

Nice looking Unit - esp with m-button and the RFID m-lock.
Looks from manuals like that orientation issue was removed for the V2 do you have an old version?

I've got v2. The manual I got says if you have a centerstand you can mount it flat. If you have a side stand then it must be mounted vertical. This is only if you want the alarm.
I got the billet button switches too and they are trick. 8)

How strange.  Manual from motorgadget doesn't mention this
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/manual/munit_v2_manual_en_3.1_k.pdf (http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/manual/munit_v2_manual_en_3.1_k.pdf)

Actually it specifies alarm works irrespective of orientation.  Must be a change they made after serial number 00005841

If I get one I won't want to be mounting it vertically so will need to be careful which one I buy - thanks for the heads-up

I'm not sure I get what advantages the unit offers. Is it just a matter of replacing electro mechanical bits with electronic bits? Does it eliminate other mechanical switches i.e. the standard switch gear for headlight, turn signals and brake lights?

Now if someone is inclined to purchase this I'm not sure how objective one can be but are the benefits worth the price?  Would it be more usefull for one type of riding over another like long distance touring versus a bar hopping fair weather boulevard cruiser? Can you comment on any real world convenience, safety or reliability benefits? Thanks.  :)

That Motogadget is Brilliant! To be able to get all relay controls in one tiny box and then use CAN Bus tech to control it, wow! One of these would be perfect for building a custom bike because all your controls are in one compact spot that can be mounted anywhere. It doesn't get any easier. I wouldn't see a whole lot of reason to remove the stock wiring from a stock bike and replace it with one of these but for a scratch built custom this is perfect. Can't wait to see this project finished.

Ok I need some opinions.
no shroud at all?

Stock radiator shroud?
Or

A metal plate on the side of the radiator.
You have to use a little imagination, It can be any color
I would use some thick aluminum. Like 1/4 inch.

The pictures are just thin cardboard painted silver and black.

The stock shroud cleans up the area at the top of the radiator very nicely. A bit of gloss black on it and it would look good.

John, I have been of the opinion that the shroud , or a reasonable facsimile , is necessary for proper cooling (at least in hotter climates) It collects more air and funnels it into the radiator, aside from protecting it.

Stock.

I like the "Stock", but notice you have trimmed the reflector mounts off.  Quite the improvement if you ask me.
I'll look at doing the same on mine.  Did you just cut and file that part off, or did you have to paint it to cover up the cut marks?

I Just cut em off. I do intend to paint it though.
I'm waiting till everything is done to paint anything.

I agree, stock is the way to go..

OK I have come to the realization I just don't have time in my life anymore to finish this bike.

I take delivery of my new KTM Superduke 1290 in a few weeks and have decide to move on from Visions.

I am selling this bike as a project needing to be finished. You could race it, turn it into a street bike or use parts.
It will include ALL vision stuff I have. and there is a bunch of good stuff.
Please read the beginning of the post to see what the engine has.
Briefly,
650cc (extra brand new pistons)
corillo Rods
Mega cycle full race cams
Chain Drive
80hp
Does not include wire wheels in pictures, Includes polished wheels in early pictures.

I am asking 5 grand.
I ask that you be serious if you want to discuss the details of the bike.
there is nothing wrong with the engine and is ready to run. Just needs the rest of the project finished.
Won the last race it was in.

Anyone interested?

Sometimes it sucks being on an island in the South Pacific.  I'd take it, except that getting it here would cost half that again or more.

Sorry to see you going John, your occasional posts have been quite inspirational.