Riders Of Vision

or will future motorcyclists still have an interest in the Yamaha Vision. Do any of you have ideas on how to stimulate greater interest in this getting older everyday bike. Perhaps it is reaching its limits as I see a declining participation on this site. I have some further thoughts but would first like to hear from others.     BDC

From a new-Vision owner who's never ridden one:

Retro is cool again (new Ducati Scrambler, BMW R Nine-T, Star Bolt C-Spec, etc.). Modern bikes just don't seem to appeal as much to the hipsters and 20-(or 30)somethings, at least here in The States.

Back in the '80s we had a special place for Honda CB350s -- in the dumpster. Some survived that fate and made it over the Atlantic in shipping crates. In fact, sending shipping crates full of '60s, '70s, and early '80s Japanese bikes became a short-lived cottage industry.

Now lowly CB350s can demand $2,000 to $3,000 (or more) in trendy neighborhoods of Brooklyn. Yamaha 650 Twins are also getting a second look (as bobbers and café racers), and modified parts specialists are springing up from coast to coast. Even pedestrian Viragos are being snapped up in the modified-bike craze.

So, why not the Vision? From what I read those f___in' carbs, crappy electronics, and exploding starter clutches killed the bike before it had time to gather a following. And it was introduced just in time for the sharp downturn in the motorcycling market (why do you think they had to get rid of all the used bikes in the U.S.?) The one caveat -- I've heard the engine is a jewel. In my book it's certainly a looker.

The entailing low production numbers mean it will be hard to create a demand for custom and repro parts. And let's face it, how many are still on the road today? (Lots of them are still on the road. Some were lucky enough to make it back to the garage!)

But one cool Vision café racer could change that. Look what Greg Hageman of Doc's Chops did for the Virago. To that end I Photoshopped my dream bike, the Visioné about 2 years ago. After a mortality check in September aboard my owned-since-new '84 Kawasaki 750 Turbo, this month I finally purchased a Vision and I'm embarking on a long, uncharted journey into making that dream a reality. Right now I'm hung up on the carbs, but parts are sitting in UPS trucks that will remedy that. Fuel tank options are nonexistent -- I'll have to build (meaning, have someone build) it myself. Thanks to POD I know that Virago wire wheels can be adapted for duty on the Vision. (Today I found the bike had bent forks -- how the hell did I miss that? Planning to swap those out for modern units anyway).

I've already sent a .jpg of the Visioné to Yamaha. No response as expected. My wildest fantasy is to have the Visioné spark new (if there ever was any "old") interest in the Vision. (If that's my wildest dream than, in the words or Don Rickles, "I gotta get a broad!") So, it's up to me. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress -- or lack of. In the meantime, I'm all ears to advice.

--Steve

The two biggest mistakes Yamaha corporation made in regard to the Vision are the cheap electrical system, and it should have been introduced to the market as a 750.  There were forces and influences in the market happening about that time, both environmental (EPA and CARB) and business (Harley Davidson got legislation passed in the form of tariffs on any bike larger than 700cc).  In spite of that the XZ still emerges here and there and draws attention.  It IS a cool bike.

Dark future ahead of the Vision.. I wouldn't say so... look at this...

(http://motormania.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Gold-Wing-F6C-2014-Valkyrie-2.jpg)

You think people like it??? a nightmare...

"The Motorcycle for People Who Never Really Liked Motorcycles." A Honda market-study bike if there ever was one. Probably polled a group of dyspeptic church ladies on that one. Honda seems to have forgotten why we ride motorcycles; for the thrills. I wish them luck.

No I don't.

I think the Vision has a future although it will be different than it's past and present. I'm sure the forum's make up has changed since it's inception and will continue to do so. Maybe it's a generational thing. Some members that were of a certain age when the bike was new have simply stopped riding. Others get their feet wet with the V drawn by the low initial cost then move on to newer models.

Through attrition, there are fewer examples out there than 20 years ago. Many got involved not knowing the bikes history but ended up smitten in spite of it's quirks. Fewer bikes, fewer local ads, fewer new members in that way.

Steve brought up a good point with the venerable 350 Honda. As Vision numbers dwindle there is the possibility the model will become "gentrified". Running examples, parts bikes and parts will fetch a premium. As it is, one often encounters used parts prices indicative of a popular, high demand model - which it currently is not. However, the future Visionary may need passion and a fat wallet.

Trying to stimulate interest may be a double edged sword but I am curious as to what Re-Vision's ideas are. Maybe a segment on Jay Leno's Garage YouTube channel?

That Honda looks rather heavy, but I would guess it is very smooth.

I would say, German WWII Mouse had more smoothness to it :)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Munster_Maus_Modell_%28dark1%29_with_figure.jpg/220px-Munster_Maus_Modell_%28dark1%29_with_figure.jpg)

;D

I think there is a future. Every so often I see them pop up around where I live (although I still contend that I have the only running examples in Pennsylvania). A month ago I found an '83 on CL, in running condition, not far from where I live and picked it up for $500. When I'm out riding or go to events people typically look right through my bike and gawk and drool over my friends' Honda 750's, but every once in a while I'll get someone who stops and will tell me how the Vision was their first bike, or how much they loved the bike back in the 80's.

I had a guy in a truck pull up next to me one day and go "Is that a Vision?? I ain't seen one of those since California in '86!!". Those are the moments that make me keep wanting to be a Visioneer. If I find them out there and I have the means to get another one, I'll keep getting them. I'm on #4 after the last 11 years.

I want to be part of whatever future is out there for our quirky little Twins.

Thanks Visioneers, your comments are appreciated and surprisingly enthusiastic. Besides my 82 I have an 83 that I intended to start on and make roadworthy, observing my health and lack of energy I've accomplished nothing with it the last few years. Would like to devise a method to give it away that would encourage interest in this bike we seem to love so much. Any ideas or plans would be considered and perhaps we can arouse the interest this old Vision deserves.           
BDC

Bobby, everyone likes getting something for free, but no one respects stuff they didn't have to suffer for.  Is there an active Vintage Japanese MC club anywhere near you?  Folks drawn to such organizations are likely to have an interest.

The thing about stuff that doesn't remain in the 'market' actively, it fades out of favor and disappears (gets recycled, scrapped, left out and forgotten in the weather, etc.)  It is LATER when they are so rare that the become much more desirable.  The XZ550 was scarce to begin with, now it is pretty rare to find one.  It's easy to find old Honda 750s and Gold Wings because they made a lot of them.

Im sure prophet of DOOM would take it,

Iain
NZ

Sorry you don't have the energy to do something with your 83 Bobby.  You have been such an amazing help to so many people here it would be good to see your Visioneer dreams come true.

I wonder if a truly spectacular custom build like the Katakura XZR751G Vision was done again today, and the articles in English and on Bike EXIF if it would have a higher profile.

Thanks for pricking my balloon fellas, no seriously I appreciate ya'lls thoughts and inputs. I do wish there was someway to make the Vision less troublesome which would obviously  enhance its value by stimulating interest. I'm still thinking.     BDC

How about concreting the wheels into the ground at a local playground thus rendering it trouble free and attracting interest from future motorcyclists  ;D

Regarding the Vision's reliability...I know that putting 22 of these old girls back on the road, over a 4 - 5 year period, helped me understand what was needed to get and keep them running right. During the 8 or so years that I had her, I had absolutely no major issues with 'The Mistress', I rode her solo/two up, all over Ontario, did weekend rides in Quebec, rode weekends with Night Vision & co in New York State, hauled her out to Cape Breton Island and toured two up for a week, hauled her down to N C and ran 'The Dragon' Cherohala Skyway, Diamond Back, etc, etc, without any issues at all.

Over the years and many, many fun filled rides/miles, I replaced three stators and a starter clutch...along with engine oil/filter, spark plugs and air filters.

The problem lies in the fact that most Vision owners picked theirs up for nothing or next to nothing...you picked up a bike that has stood for years without any maintenance, love or respect!! WHY then would someone expect to have a Roll Royce without spending the time and money to achieve such reliability!! There is NO SUCH THING AS A FREE/CHEAP VISION, or anything else, 99% of the time  ???

Vision's are no more reliable/unreliable than any other bike of it's time really. It is all about maintenance/preventative maintenance, right from the out set... ::) As RickG used to always say..."Someone took all the love out of her now you have to put all the love back in to her"

I used to buy non running Vision's for $250/$300.00, sometimes a wee bit more/less. Once I got her home, I pulled her down to a frame with an engine resting there...
Front forks were ripped down, cleaned and rebuilt with new seals/oil regardless of the condition they came in!! New steering head bearings every time. New handle bar grips installed. Front brake caliper(s)/rear brake cleaned, serviced and new pads/shoes, if needed, installed. New tires and battery!!! Disposed of the spark plugs/wires and caps and installed new ones. ALL fluids, (engine oil, rear drive oil, fork oil and coolant), drained off and replaced with new good quality products...not forgetting to replace the oil filter!! All electrical connections checked, cleaned and lubed with dielectric grease. Main positive and ground leads replaced. All light bulbs replaced regardless!! Handlebar switches removed and flushed out with electrical contact cleaner and lubed with dielectric grease. Left side engine cover removed, stator checked and replaced if signs of a flamin' stator are evident!!... fly wheel removed, starter clutch checked and new soc hd cap screws installed using blue Loctite and peened...and not forgetting the 46mm, nut tightened to spec and both locking tabs bent over. Gas tank flushed out. Petcock/filter screen cleaned. etc, etc, etc...THERE ARE NO SHORT CUTS TO THIS!!!

Only after she was all back together again, with the carbs CLINICALLY STRIPPED, CLEANED AND REBUILT, did I attempt to fire her up...and fire up everyone did  ;D Carbs synced properly, shake down ride and she was then ready for her new home 8) 8)

I would tell the new owners what I had done and to keep up with the basic maintenance on a regular basis...after that just go ride her like you stole her...ENJOY!!

There is NO magic formula. Love and TLC apart, you just need a basic understanding of things mechanical...listen to your ride, she will tell you what is going on and in most cases will give you advanced warning of an up and coming problem...listen and learn to fix, before she gives out on you :-[

Keep the forum going boys and girls ;)

Love your ride... 8)

               

Well said Tiger!! Thanks reminding everyone it has to be a labor of love.  Nothing else will get it done.

THE Vision didn't have a future in 1983 when Yamaha dropped it for lack of sales, and struggled to unload the bikes it had in its warehouses for the next three years.  MY Vision, however, has a future.  It is in that desirable class of motorcycle that is technically interesting, fun to ride, and notoriously rare because it wasn't a raging sales success. 

It isn't a 550 Seca, which was a sales success even in a recession market, but try to find a Seca used these days.  You can, but they aren't common.  They weren't special enough for their owners to maintain.  Used Secas were cheap, plentiful, and disposable, without enough emotional draw to compell owners fix them up when they broke down or wore out.  Yeah, there are a few around, but the percentage of them that is still around compared to the thousands sold in the US is miniscule.

The Vision had many fewer bikes sold here originally.  It was a rarity in the Eighties, and it has gotten progressively rarer over time, but not at the same staggering rate that the UJM's were scrapped when they needed repairs.  Ultimately, the Vision will be like the Edsel: rare because not many were built, a little ugly (but not colossally ugly like an Edsel or a Pacer), but technically advanced enough that even modern motorcycles are compared to them, and found to be not that much better despite the decades of technological advancement that went into their designs.

My Vision has a future with me because it is quick, reliable, and cool in a way that gets some folks walking up to me on the street as I'm putting my helmet on asking me what it is.  I may own other motorcycles in the future, but I think this one will always have a place in my garage.

Scott

 I love it Tiger. It applies to every old motorcycle that's followed me home, the brand doesn't matter.

  My wife say's, I run a care home for mistreated motorcycles.   Motoracer8, I know someone who has a  JOHN PLAYER SPECIAL project bike, you have interest??

Black and gold Norton?  Racer???

 Fret, they are kind of red white and blue, made in 1973. search you can pictures easy

Back on topic, I'd like to know what Bobby was thinking - do you have a cunning plan that you haven't said out loud?

Rohan, I thought I was being cunning by asking you guys for ideas on stimulating interest. Solving Vision problems would surely increase interest. How about building new harnesses? That would eliminate a slew of problems. I'm willing to give a bike and/or time and perhaps some money to help build a better Vision, would like to find some other Visioneers wanting to surmount some of our obstacles. Time, energy, and money can overcome all our problems if we can devise a method for us to unite and work together to accomplish what no individual will do on his on.            BDC

It would seem, that with the discovery of the latest RR design, the only remaining V issue is finicky carbs.  The starter clutch attachment and starter motor oil seal problems were solved long ago.  Whatever perceived V problems that may appear to remain are really common to all old unloved MCs in general.

I think perhaps the best way to approach this would be to have an as-new museum quality restoration - and get it into somewhere like Barbers Museum where it would be seen and photographed by hundreds of thousands of motorcycle enthusiasts.  I think the Vision is unique enough to qualify.   A heavily modified bike might get more interest if it got on bike EXIF - but only from people wanting to chop them up :-(

I'm too far away to help much in a resto-build, but could provide some refurbished parts if someone took it on seriously.


On the harness problem...
They are a major issue, but one that's common to all bikes of the era - especially when they have sat outdoors for long.

From having ripped into several XZ looms I can authoritatively say that (if not hacked about) the wire and insulation is probably still perfectly good - the ones I have seen just need re-wrapping and new connectors (with grease and silicone).  My experience has been that for most people this is the last thing they would try and do, yet replacing connectors is not that much more effort than cleaning them, Cleaning can't fix years of UV damage but replace them and you are looking at another 30 years of trouble free service.

IMHO the Vision is a very "unique" bike but it will never get "classic" status, a few perfect survivors my ask premium prices, but most Visions aren't worth much  .  I would very rarely get anyone interested my Vision the couple of times I had it at some VJMC events, even though, my then "running" Vision was more rare than many  of the "classic" bikes others had there. 

Sorry to say I have now gone a year without working on mine at all, fall of 2013 I posted the "knocking" sound my motor makes but just haven't gotten around to digging into it, imagine my carbs will have to be gone though now too. Guess I will see what 2015 brings, was moving the Vision to a different location in the garage a week ago, compared to my 2000 Concours is sure felt nice and light, dang, would be nice to get running again but I think I may need a motor (chip off the end of my crank) and I just don't know anymore if I would want to invest the time, money and labor involved perhaps in a possible engine change and can I even find an engine that?  Hey Tiger nice to hear from you, notice that that he (Tiger) on all his 22 rebuilds, I don't think he ever had had to "dig" into an engine deeper than stator and starter clutch, few ROV members have ever gone deeper than that. Most likely shows the engines themselves were pretty well made. 

It would seem that the carbs are the biggest hard to solve and keep that way problem. So how about pulling together on developing a simple and cheap as possible injection system and supplying to members of the forum at cost. In fact stator fixes, gasket sets, all the hard to get bits as well, would be good as well. Then again if all the problems were ironed out they wouldn't be such a rarity on the road perhaps, and maybe wouldn't attract the interest that they apparently do now when seen by the uninformed general public?
Disregard my previous comment about concreting a Vision in a local playground. There is obviously not enough cotton wool on these bikes even if the governing bodies would allow our children to play on such terrible machines lest they grow up into free spirits who ride bikes... ;)

It has been pointed out by Motoracer8 that the electrical system, particularly the ignition system, is weak and likely much of the 'carburation' issues.  A robust ECU (electronic control unit) would be a huge step forward, and something that can either be designed and fabricated or some other existing unit might be adapted to our project.  I think a good ignition system might be the missing link, though there are other areas that could be strengthened.  There is a well regarded company in eastern Europe called Ignitech who might be able to come up with something.  They make several variations of ignition units for street and some for racing, as well as injection systems.

Fuel injection will take someone with technical expertise to adapt a set up from another bike or fit and sort out a  new add on system like Megasquirt.  There are injection systems out there but they are not inexpensive, so finding the best value would be up to someone that knows how to sort through these things.

I'd have to side with dingleberry on this point - not the cement shoes idea but rather the carb bugaboo concerns. If I prioritized Vision flaws, carbs would head the list. There have been anecdotal claims and a few members documented alternate carb(s) installations. None that I recall seemed like substantive improvements though. To do it right would take quite a bit of R&D and for FI even more. If it were easy or cheap it would be in widespread use by now.

If one were to throw money at the bike, my guess is better induction would yield the greatest impact in owner satisfaction ratings. As far as the electrical system is concerned, the same care/upgrades given any older model is sufficient to make the bike reliable in that regard. To the ignition system concern, there are known rev limiter issues that affect some examples but I disagree ignition is this bike's biggest problem. Just my 2 cents.

 To answer the question...Does the Vision have a future?... YES it does, as long as this forum is alive 'n kicking 8)

John.

Nice answer Tiger.

Ignitech already has an xz map for their ignitions.  It's a plug and play affair and it runs great.

Hmmmmmmm . . . .   an Ignitech ignition box and better coils might be the basis for a more user friendly personality for the XZ, at least as far as starting.

Do we have a list of all modifications and their sources anywhere in the archives?    BDC

Tiger, appreciated the list of preventive measures you perform on the bikes.

Quote from: Re-Vision on December 12, 2014, 09:34:32 AM
Do we have a list of all modifications and their sources anywhere in the archives?    BDC

Tiger, appreciated the list of preventive measures you perform on the bikes.

I did a list when I started my bike from trawling through the forums.  I Couldn't find it - but here's a thread that can be added to

http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=13511.0 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=13511.0)

OK Found my list.  Not sure everything is there, but a good start

Cylinder head
YICS removal & cap ports
YICS replacement
Relocate breathers to catch can
Iridium sparkplugs
82-83 gaskets
Use two rear valve covers for better crankcase venting
Cut 0.5mm from cylinder surfaces
Smooth intake ports

Cylinder
Rebore to 650cc

Crankshaft – piston
Bore and Stroke to 750cc
Uprated Rods and bearings
Wiseco pistons
Harmonic balance crank

Balancer
Balancer removal

Camshaft – Chain
Replacement race cams
Twingle cam timing

Valve
?

Water Pump
?

Radiator Hose
Replacement fan motor
Silicon hoses
Fan sensor bypass switch
Trim pointy bits off radiator shroud
Remove / replace radiator shroud with alloy
Waterless coolant

Oil Pump
?

Oil Filter
Oil Cooler

Air Filter
82->83 Flapper assembly
Replace filter material with K&N or similar
Intake trumpet extensions
Pod filters

Carburetor
Longer trumpets
Replacement Carb (Weber dual throat, Single slide, single downdraught)
Rejet
Polyurethane fuel lines
Fuel line magnets
In-line fuel filter
Electric fuel pump
Intake restrictors

Exhaust
Flanges welded to Y piece
Replacement exhaust (Predator, Spec2, Cycleworks, Wolf, Marving, Macs, Supertrapp, Custom)
Exhaust baffle removal

Crankcase
Semi-synthetic oil

Crankcase Cover
Cooling fins
Engine guards
Crankcase thermometer
Crash guards

Generator
Ricks Stator
Honda 30 Amp stator
550 -> 400 Flywheel swap (or lighten stock flywheel)
Waterproof stator connector
Drilled Flywheel bolt
Stator removal

Starting Motor
Replace Nose Seal

Starter Clutch
Longer bolts and peen

Clutch
Heavy duty clutch springs
Euro -> US -> XZ400 gearing swap

Transmission
Replace transmission with RD400 6-speed

Middle Drive Gear
Chain drive conversion
Shift Cam – Fork

Shift Shaft
Replacement Shift lever

Frame
Improve Bolts
De-tab
Full frame replacements
Grab handle removal
Remove main stand

Fender
Shorten front and/or rear
Relocate licence holder
Upgrade tookit
Side Cover

Swing Arm
Bronze swingarm bushings

Drive Shaft
Chain conversion

Rear Shock
82->83 swap
R1 (early model)
Ducati Paso or Triumph shock with relocated mount

Front Fork
Additional spacers
Progressive springs (Except R16)
Racetech emulators
82->83 Air caps/Stanchions
Air Valve
Gaiters
Fork Brace
Full front end conversion
Air balancer tube

Steering
Tapered roller bearings
Steering Damper

Fuel Tank
POR 15 Liner
Drill Neck
Replace (eg vision tracker)
Insulated lining on bottom

Seat
Corbin seat
Carved foam
Gel Insert
Single race seat
Replacement cowl

Front Wheel
82->83 or XZ400 slotted disk rotors
R1 Bigger diameter rotors (& Caliper swap)
Aftermarket rotors (EBC and similar)
Increase tyre size up to 110
Virago Wheel

Front Brake – Caliper
82->83 Dual disk front brake (US Only)
82->83 Dual disk master cylinder (US Only)
Stainless Braided Brake Lines (1, 2 or 3 line kit)
Large 4-pot calipers & adapters
Sintered pads
Brembo pads

Rear Wheel
Increase tyre size up to 120
Virago Wheel

Handlebar – Cable
82->83 risers (US Only)
RG250 Clip-ons (cut stock risers)
Bolt-on risers and traditional handlebar
Foam or gel grips
Handlebar end mirrors
Hand protectors

Front Master Cylinder
Replace with aftermarket
Drill and re-tap for socket head screws

Stand – Footrest
82->83 swap
Swap with 400D/550D Alloy
Cut/replace exhaust hangers
Replace brake pedal
Remove rear stand
Aftermarket rearsets (Raask)

Meter
Complete replacement (Digital dash etc)

Headlight
7" Round Headlight
High output bulb
Headlight modulator
LED Conversion

Taillight
LED Conversion

Turn Signal
Stumpy Stalks
Complete replacement

Electrical
Ignitech replacement TCI (Programmable or non programmable)
Throttle Position Sensor (for use with Ignitech TCI-P4)
Ricks Stator
Replacement Connectors
136db Stebel Nautilus Horn
VW 6Volt horn
Volt meter
Cut TCI rev limiter
Toggle switch for cooling fan
Relocate r/r to outside bike
Replace r/r with mosfet shunt or series type
Replace fuse box with blade type
Driving lights
AGM/LiFe Battery
Accessory outlet
Full re-wire
Motogadget m-unit, m-lock, m-button
Aftermarket coils (Dyna or Nology)
Silicon spark leads

Handlebar Switch - Lever
Drilled Lever ends
Aftermarket levers
Euro Flash to pass swap

Fairing
83 Fairing
83 / Sports / Shark Fairing
Aftermarket fairings
Trim windscreen
Extra length wiindscreen

Other
Hard Luggage (Shoei, Yamaha,
Pack Rack
Non-standard paint
Powdercoat
Digital clock, Radar detector, GPS

Awesome, thanks.     BDC

 Slightly off topic but it has merit. In the 50's someone at Edelbrock designed 4 duel throat down draft carbs for early V8's. This was before the Webber down draft appeared.  They couldn't get them to work right. They finally found that the notorious week ignitions of the time was the problem.

Notorious week ignitions? I give you 70's and 80's motorcycle ignitions. It's funny that when you have a good hot spark many carburetor problems go away.

The Vision race bike I built 30 years ago had a home built ignition amplifier and 20,000 volt coils. The stock Vision ignition system will barely make 6000 volts, and that's in good condition.

Just a pair of 12,000 volt coils would make a difference. But they would overheat the the cheap output transisters in the mystery box because they draw more currant.

I've installed aftermarket electronic ignition systems on my British bikes and they start and run fine even with their sloppy Amal carburetors.

I've thought of experimenting with one of the aftermarket ignition units for British twins but have never gotten around to it. Even the Boyer amplifiers whitch I consider crap, are better than the stock Yamaha part.

There's room for improvement on the Visions ignition system if one is motivated. 

To start, make sure everything is clean and tight. And by all means replace the plug wires and plug caps so what little juice the coils have can get to the spark plugs.

Ken

Ken, thanks for the perspective.  It sounds to me like the Ignitech  ignition and better coils might well be money well spent.  From their website their prices seem pretty reasonable considering the technology involved.

I don't think the bike has a future at all since no one really knows what they are.  I do like my Vision, but I do think it's a good bike, not a great bike.  It's uniqueness makes up for a lot of deficiencies.  My '83 Nighthawk 650 for example was a much better bike from a functional perspective.  It has easier maintenance, more power, and a 6th OD gear.  I was able to keep up on group rides and never lacked power. The Vision could have had some of this technology, but they missed the mark.  The styling and look of the Vision endear it to me and it's nice to ride around town.  Just a bit limited to me, but I've been riding a ZRX 1100 and CBR 1000 for 10 years too.

QuoteI don't think the bike has a future at all since no one really knows what they are.

In order to argue this properly we'd have to define and agree upon what a bike's "future" entails but I don't think I'd base it entirely on how recognizable it is. I've been to bike shows and seen models previously unknown to me but that didn't necessarily diminish my interest or invalidate the bike's place in the industry.

Regarding the 100cc and HP advantage of the SC, You know what else is faster than an XZ? Just about any other bike of the period with more HP. You know what's faster than a 450 Nighthawk? A 550 Nighthawk. OK, I'm being a bit cheeky but the point is valid. There's a lot more to group riding dynamics then just HP. Mismatched participants can ride together cohesively if well led. It's not fun nor safe for slower riders to constantly have to play catch up so I'd say if one finds themselves constantly in that position, find a different group or get a bigger bike.  :angel:

I am a huge fan of the DOHC 650 Nighthawks and they have some enviable features but like any bike they had some issues too.  I can think of bikes I prefer over both the CB and the XZ and others that don't compare to either.  At the end of the day it's more a function of individual taste and fulfilling specific needs that endears one to some bikes over others.

And finally, I agree with you the Vision isn't a "great" bike in the strictest sense. Having said that, in my eyes it's still a great bike. Hey, what can I say? I wouldn't be here if I wasn't a fan.  :)

I'm quite fond of the bike too and that the main problem- We're in the minority. 

I have a '71 Yamaha R5 a '74 RD350 and a '77 RD400.  All 3 absolutely stop traffic and draw crowds wherever I go.  It's guys in their late 40's to early 60's that remember the bikes fondly and they all have a story either where they had a Honda that couldn't keep up with the Yamaha or they owned one and couldn't keep the front tire off the ground.  Their memories are a bit more legendary than the actual performance of the bike, but that nostalgia is what drives the resale market. I've been offered $10,000 on the spot for my RD400 (it's a built cafe racer).  I also get people pulling their check books for the RD350 too.  These people will drop serious coin in a RD restoration just to relive the past.  People do take a 2nd look at the Vision, but then scratch their heads wondering what the heck it is.  They like it, but it doesn't draw that memory recall since most people have never encountered one.  So as to the Vision the old guys are out and the young guys want HP and more HP...and fairings.  So that leaves less "investors" willing to put the time and effort into Vision since the parts are less available and they don't have the emotional investment.

So that leaves the Vision to quirky people like us that don't mind taking a chance on a cool bike that has a unique look.   I think I have way more into the bike then it's worth, but to me it's still worth it.  So the actual answer is we're the future.

My take on the Vision...

When you look at 1982 specifically, not a lot of liquid cooling happening with Yamaha street bikes; other than the vision there was RD/RZ120LC, RD/RZ250LC and RD/RZ350 (47hp). Also, if you look at the v-twin action at Yamaha there is the xv750 (51hp), XV920 (65hp) versus the 62hp of the Vision's 550cc. So what Yamaha had was a unique, liquid cooled, v-twin engine with excellent hp (for the day), street bike.

Was the Vision a sport bike...could be but not really when compared to a RD/RZ. A touring bike...could be but the larger XJ's/XS's looked to be more the part and a more popular choice. A rival to a HD...don't think that was ever the intention...but again not compared to XV. So what was the xz...possibly an attempt to be an all-rounder with an engine that was more advanced compared to the air cooled engines or the smokers of 1982.

Now I'm rambling...where I'm going is (IMO) the Vision tried to capture broad audience, however in doing so never really created an identity. Without an identity the model may not become as sought after as say the RD/RZ.

So back to the question...Does the Vision has a future...Yes...at least in my garage...purchased my first a few weeks back, another last night. As commented to in a previous post...I'm drawn to the uniqueness of a early '80's Yamaha liquid v-twin, short stroke, 4 valve cylinder, down draft carb...

Also, IMO, this forum is a huge contributing factor to maintaining a future for the Vision.

Yup, all good points. The Vision will never enjoy the resale value or draw an ego stroking crowd like a classic BSA, RD, GPz, etc.  If you had asked me in 1983 if the Vision had a future I would have said no but here it is 30+ years later with a reasonably active forum and enthusiasts all over the globe. Not bad for a bike with identity issues.   ;)

Has anyone here read this review?
http://motor.greatknow.com/view/95078-xz550-the-bike-that-never-was.html

Well let me say this about that.....

A good running '83 is a bike worth having. 

As far as the forum, I wish there were a way for ROV and www.xz550.de to join forces

Enhancing and updating the technical pages might help increase interest in the Vision.  Lucky's Vision resources seem to be gone, and nothing has ever taken its place.  New folks have to slog through the forum to get info.  I think there are a lot of non-running visions out there, a good number of which could be brought back to life.  Maybe if Tiger could be persuaded to do one last Vision, with a photographer....

Quote from: hoverhead47 on February 26, 2015, 12:40:47 AM
Has anyone here read this review?
http://motor.greatknow.com/view/95078-xz550-the-bike-that-never-was.html

That looks like the post from our very own Inane Cathode but on the ADVrider forum. A nice 9 page thread ensued.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316190 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316190)

 Why can't we join forces?

Quote from: pullshocks on February 26, 2015, 01:15:15 AM
Well let me say this about that.....
As far as the forum, I wish there were a way for ROV and www.xz550.de to join forces

Someone here who speaks German might be of great benefit, translate and steal their pictures if necessary. I saw some clever improvements looking at the gallery pictures. Lots of ways we can get our technical resources organized for better availability. The more we do the more valuable our bikes become.     BDC

 I have one Norton, and that's enough. I will have to say almost any part I want for my 40 yr old Norton is still available.

Yeah, the Norton Owner's Club has been a great service to old Norton owners.  I used to belong but haven't had a Norton for many years.  They specifically went about making sure the original parts manufacturers would make a run of parts once in a while, or find another shop to replicate the original parts.  We don't have anything quite like that at all.  Our best resource is the internet to find New Old Stock or used parts, which leaves us vision owners at a significant disadvantage in that regard.  Now the new hope on the horizon is 3D printing technology.  All it takes is for someone to do it. :police:

Not topic related but going with the Norton theme....

All the Norton eye candy you want coming up in April for those in the northeast US i.e. NY, PA, NJ. Large parking lot with Nortons mixed in with what the admirers ride there on which is a little bit of everything.

http://www.dvnr.org/gathering/2015_22nd_flyer.pdf (http://www.dvnr.org/gathering/2015_22nd_flyer.pdf)

im aware that im responding to an older thread but im new and couldn't respond before, anyhow i think the vision does have a future. im new to the vision myself and i am in complete love with this bike. ill own other bikes in the future but this one will always have a place in my garage. i have no plan to ever rid myself of it, its too cool. others like me are finding these bikes slowly but surely. in an age of computer tech, having a machine with limited to no chips, hard drives, processors, or other annoying modern tech is a blessing. thanks for reading guys i appreciate it.

I've pretty much made up my mine that the Vision may have a limited future as long as new fans continue to come on board. My observations from the last six or seven years indicate that even the bike's strongest supporters tend to fade and drop by the wayside when they realize that that there are no economical cures for all of the bike's woes. Perhaps if we had a few Tigers spread around the world we could have a hope for a future, but look what happened to Canada when Tiger left us. How nice it would be to go into motorcycle shop and get a Vision upgrade kit installed and leave all of its incumbent problems behind. Not going to happen though. When the Vision is running well, I have no desire for any other street bike whether larger or smaller because I consider this machine perfect for me. I wish well for all Visioneers but I believe our days are numbered. Hope I'm wrong.      BDC

Part of the attraction to the XZ550 for me is the challenge to understand the bike and make it do what it is supposed to do so I can enjoy it.  It would be much easier to find parts if the bike had been produced over a longer span of years, but here we are and this is what we get.  In such case the journey is the destination, so to speak.  Therefore the "eXtreme Zen" moniker is clearly apt.  There may be fewer and fewer devotees to the Vision, but I think the light will burn bright for this bike as long as there are any of them around.

I have always thought this bike should have been introduced as a 750, then it would have enjoyed a longer production run.

Ten or fifteen years ago people were pretty animated about how it was the ugliest / worst bike Yamaha ever made etc etc.
Now everything old is cool again, and people aren't quite so dismissive.  Give it another 5-10 years it will have true vintage status and anyone with a working Vision will be a local hero.  Hang in there boys.
My guess is Tiger will get offered a pristine Vision and will be unable to say no.  More fun to be one of the most knowledgeable Vision owners with a Vision than averagely knowledgeable about something else.
A big bore kit would be great - I'd be sending my $ off as fast as I could for one of those.

WE all know the bike is interesting and unique, and since there are relatively very few of them they will be of interest to future riders, especially at "cruise nights" and VJMC meets.  The future is out there, . . . somewhere.

Mr BDC - I am sadly devoid of time, cash, and knowledge, but I have a Vision i would donate your cause.  It's a parts bike, with plenty of parts.  I'd happily donate it as a donor/ test bed.
I.e, take the somewhat leaky gas tank, and use it to make  mold for something new/ better?
Peel apart the wiring harness to study/ take pictures?
Take the plastics and create molds for those?

Sadly, these things take too much of the categories i don't have, but i offer this bike for those who might have the resources

The Honda Hulk, pictured above looks like they used the bars and mirrors from a Honda 90!

The offer is appreciated Kiwi. Hope you stimulate someone with more get-up-and-go than myself.      BDC

This post caught my eye and since my Vision is still around I might as well be better late than never....

I bought my "new-to-me" Vision at the turn of the last century (2000) with only 10,000 km.  It had been victimized by a rusty tank that took out the carburetors.  It had suffered some butchering on the carbs also as a result.  I replaced the tank, rebuilt the carbs, replaced the stator and have ridden the bike for the past 16 years (hard to believe) and have only replaced 3 stators, the RR with a mosfet (which has resulted in the longest running stator in the bikes history and then again it may be the OEM Suzuki stator too...who knows?).  I was first introduced to this Vision in 1982 while I was working at a Yamaha dealership.  I took it for a test ride and was quite impressed with the nimble feel and perky engine response.  My first impression was that this was best performing twin engine I had ever ridden.  I was not impressed with the difficulty of adjusting valves, but that turned out to be no big deal because they hardly ever need to be done. I loved the shaft drive because I hate oiling and adjusting a chain.  I appreciate water cooling because it manages engine heat so well and extends longevity.  This bike was built to be a reliable, long distance runner.  It was a comfortable standard which most people have never ridden and don't know what they are missing.  It has a bench seat which makes moving around a real treat, which again most people have never know the pleasure.  All of these components have kept me riding my Vision because I have been spoiled by a great bike and I'm just unwilling to hazard giving up the things I have learned to really like.  I have simple taste, I just want to get out and feel the wind in my face and enjoy a ride through the countryside.  The Vision still does all these things that I love so it has a future in my life.  Where the old girl ends up some day, who can know, but I am going to try and introduce it to my grandson (in a couple of years) and that may ensure it passes on to another generation.

The Vision works for me and that means it will probably be around for a while yet in my garage.  I recently went to Friday 13th (2016) in Port Dover Ontario where around 2000 bikes gather just for the sake of Friday 13th.  I was quite confident that I had the only Vision present that day.  I smile to myself knowing the most people have no idea of what I am riding, but I can assure you it is not just an everyday Harley.  The Vision is much more than a cookie-cutter bike that everyone else rides, it is unique and one-of-a-kind and it appeals to me and that's all that matters today and for tomorrow.  It will never be a collectible, it will never have a book written about it's contribution to motorcycle history, but it will be meaningful to a handful of people who have preserved this bike and regard it as special to them...that means it has a future!

Cheers fellows!

(I've been off the grid for a while but still riding!  ;))

Louie, thank you for that heartfelt statement.  You clearly know the virtues and vices of the XZ, and your obvious appreciation of the bike is testament enough to tell everyone that there IS a future for this model.  :)

That about says it.  Thanks Louie.

What CDNLouie said. I go to a lot of motorcycle event and almost never see a Vision. I raced the WERA Endurance series in 1983, riding an 83 Suzuki GS550ES, supposedly the fastest 550 production bike that year. Unfortunately no one told Team Good Times from College Station Tx that and they beat us like step-children every time we showed up at the same track. I bought my 83 Vision in 1992 from an engineer at the factory I was working at with only 6000 miles on it. It has been an extremely reliable bike. My other, 82, I bought for $200 and it has been had a host of problems, all of them covered many times on ROV.
I have several bikes and, every time I loan the Vision to someone, they come back and say, "Wow, what a cool bike. I really enjoyed riding it."
Does the Vision have a future? Probably not if you're thinking of selling it for Brough Superior money in the future, but it's got a present if what you're looking for is a unique ride.

My Vision has a future. Here us a picture of my son and his cousin in their bikes.

Bought her new in 1985, been down a few roads since then.

Cool bike when it was new, fell in love the first time I saw her on the showroom floor, I told my dad it was my vision, he told me it was my dream. Busted my tail to find the money, took her home on 4/27/1985.

Way to advanced for people a the time, liquid cooled, shaft drive, advanced style, self canceling signals, kick stand kill switch.

Love her to this day but now she belongs to my son.

So, yes the Vision has a future, or at least mine does.

Your sons' Vision is looking good.  I certainly understand the emotions of your story.  How many miles on the V?

6,985 as of tonight. Another interesting thing, was looking at the original 21 day (temporary) license permit last night, here is a picture, check out the number in red.

So again based on the number of views in a lot of subjects, the Vision does have a future, I guess it is what you make of it.

Wow!!  No wonder it looks like new... it IS NEW!

By my calculations, that's 218.2 miles per year!

Nice bike,
               Steve

If you haven't already dealt with the standard V engine upgrades, I think it would be far better to be proactive and start fixin what you know will fail and do it on your schedule, not the bikes'.  If not already done, install an inline fuel filter at your earliest convenience.

QBS, already have the inline filter (for the last 5 years), although that one confuses me a little as the fuel valve has a fine screen in it. What engine upgrades are you suggesting, going to pull the cover in the next few days when we change the oil, check the starter clutch and balance shaft nuts. Anything I am missing?

fiat-doctor, yeah, didn't put a lot of miles on the bike although for the life of me I can't remember the first 6,000, guess that is what happens when you reach 50 years. Another interesting note at this point is my car in high school was a Fiat X1/9, black and gold like the Vision, still have it, need to get that running too.

gmac, starter clutch attachment needs to be upgraded ( Loc- Tightened, well peened attachment screws).  It's a one time, life time fix.  Replace the starter motor oil seal with a spring lip design seal.  A one time, life time fix.  Otherwise, you will get to basically rebuild your starter motor at 10k miles.  Hard wire the R/R-stator coil connection and move the R/R to a much cooler position.  The left side foot peg mounting plate is a good spot.  Doing these charging system modifications will prob extend the life of your factory stator, even so, it will probably need to be replaced and upgraded down the road.  These items are factory defects that every V has.  No one dodges these bullits.

You will probably want to install tapered roller bearings in the steering head around 20k miles.  POR15 treat your fuel tank asap to ensure a life time of non rusty fuel stored in a tank that will never have rusty leaky pin holes (or worse!) along its' bottom edges. Treating a pristine tank is cheap, easy, and it insures a life of peace and joy.

Use a long Allen wrench to tighten your 2 clamps that attach the Y-Pipe to the two rear head exhaust ports.  They will probably tighten with series of snaps that may sound like the bolt has broken off.  Fear not.  Doing this procedure will greatly extend the life of your the copper rings and silver discs that are the primary components of this connection, for which replacement parts may be hard to find.

All of these upgrades can be done for not much $ and will greatly decrease future headaches and associated repairs.  Since the oil seal and starter clutch reattachment upgrades require draining the engine oil, they should be done simultaneously at your next oil change.