Hello everyone I'm Slavko from Serbia. Two week ago i got Yamaha XZ 550 bobber project, about 80% done.
The frame of the bike was modified, doesn't have monoshock anymore it is "hardtail", the frame of the bike was painted in black metalic. Now how I got it? :D
Well my brother in law bought Suzuki Burgman from one guy, and he notice the bike in corner of garage, then he takes the picture and showed to me. And after a few days and talks the bike ended in my garage. ;D The old owner lost interest in finishing his project, the project was on pause button about 2 years now. When i bought it didn't know much about it (about original problems that this bike has). After a few research I bumped on this forum (luckily for me ;D). So there is one problem, when he striped the bike, he got all electric wiring off the frame and after his friend electrician reasemble it, the bike didn't work normaly, the bike, the lights everything that has to do with wires lol. ;D
So i registered here with hope that you will help me start this bad boy up.
P.S. : Sorry for my bad english and little longer story. :P
Here are the pictures of the bike
And here are the wiring ;D
Looks like it will be an interesting project to say the least. :) I think this is the first Vision I've seen with forward controls. That's a sexy rear fender, what is it from? That and the headlight really give it an old time bobber look.
Looks like it has a lot of the oem wiring harnness. You must find a V wiring diagram and a multimeter. Any V will be good, but a wiring diagram specific to the '82 would probably match your bike. Research this site. I think that it once had the Haynes manual wiring diagram available.
I would look for a way to tie up all the electrical components so that you will be able to go to each part consistently while running down problems. Buy a new fuse block and replace your old fuse holders as they give lots of problems. We can help when you get something to work with such as a description of a specific fault. BDC
Wiring diagrams on the link on my sig
Is this Wiring Diagram any good? :D
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Diagrams/SchematicTCIBig.jpg
That's for a US model. Though there is not all that much difference there are some.
Go to the link in my sig, download the manual marked (11U) Service Manual EN, FR, DE
There are detailed wiring diagrams near the back
Quote from: Slav91 on April 01, 2015, 03:34:13 AM
Is this Wiring Diagram any good? :D
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Diagrams/SchematicTCIBig.jpg
At a glance that looks reasonable. I see it's from a reputable site so that's good. There may be some changes depending on which regulator/rectifier is used regarding the brown wire. You may also consider cleaning up a bit by eliminating the 2 relays and switches for the side stand and clutch switch. Changing the fuse block to a blade style already suggested is a good idea.
Hello, me again. ;D Just strip baterry box form the frame. And i notice this. I have no idea what is this? But it was disconected from the connector near him. I got original battery for him 12v 14Ah 140A, but it i couldn't put it on the battery box so i change it for 12v 9ah 100A, should not be a problem, right? ???
And also, where this hose go? To airbox maybe?
You figured correctly, bottom rear of airbox. Manual calls for 14A/h battery, I wouldn't use a smaller rated battery. BDC
The bike or at least the motor and front wheel are 83. Dual disc on front wheel and remote/relocated crankcase oil fill tube (was for 83 with lower fairing, USA bike). The mirror look like 82. Personally, unless you have already spend a lot of money on it or you just really, really needed the challenge, I would turn that Bobber into a sinker. Good luck
The "box" in your pictures is not from a Yamaha XZ550. It may be a Regulator/Rectifier. Follow the wires coming from the stator, and see what they connect to. That should be the R/R, and from the R/R to the battery.
The connector on the wires coming from the stator (3 yellow or white) is the same kind of connector as the one that connects with the ignition box, and THEY SHOULD NOT BE INTERCHANGED or you will fry the ignition box. :police:
Hi,
Neat bike I am wondering what the tank was from ? As this is a European model it has dual front disks and likely had the 3/4 sports fairing when new. Their versions up to 86 I believe did not have 83 style carbs, also I have not seen a European model with the slotted disk brakes like the 83 North American models.
I believe their models all came with a different gear ratio which lowers the rpm by around 500. I have euro gears in the two 83's I have and it makes a better touring machine.
Enjoy your project nice to see it when its done up .
:) Cheers Ken S.
Thanks for support and help guys. :D
I got the blade fuse box and I wanted to play with electronic but something good happen today. ;D
Today a friend of my brother in law came by, he worked in Germany for 30 years, and about 15 or 20 years in motorcycle service shop. He is electrician and mechanic. And about 3 years he came back to Serbia, anyway he looked the bike and he said that he knows that model and his "problems". And that he will need couple of days to see whats the problem with electrical wiring of the bike, so I have transported the bike to his garage today and he will call me in a couple of days to tell me whats the plan. ;D Hope that TCI is still good. :-\
I have one question, is there any other tachometers (gauges) except original that suits for XZ 550? I'm looking for some round ones, think that will look better then square ones that XZ original has.
Quote from: Kenny on April 06, 2015, 02:28:55 PM
Hi,
Neat bike I am wondering what the tank was from ?
Some parts of tank are original, and some were added from some other "donor" tank. At least i think ???
Slav, don't spend any money on the bike until you hear it go RRRMMMM RRRMMMM RRRMMM. If there is a problem with it getting started or the engine has a problem, you might just be spending money on things you won't / can't use. I can tell you are excited to have it running but some times you need to just do one step at a time. I hope you get good news from your friend.
Quote from: Single Carb Vision on April 07, 2015, 10:43:29 AM
Slav, don't spend any money on the bike until you hear it go RRRMMMM RRRMMMM RRRMMM. If there is a problem with it getting started or the engine has a problem, you might just be spending money on things you won't / can't use. I can tell you are excited to have it running but some times you need to just do one step at a time. I hope you get good news from your friend.
I didn't plan to spend much money on it before I hear RMMM RMMM :D I'm just interested on info about tachometers. The only think I did buy so far was the fuse box for blade fuses (that was necessary) and set of fuses (about 10$ spend so far) and now I'm just waiting for news from a friend. Thanks for nice wishes. ;D
RMMM, RMMM? or No RMMM, RMMM?
Got some "bad news" lol, the stator is fried :-\ and regulator (small silver box) also, but that box isn't original, so I found serial one with these marks " 4x7-A0 SH 238 " for like 10 euros (new is about 115 euros) striped from working bike also XZ 550. Well the seller said it is 100% in working condition, but we will see if I got any lucky there :D Unfortunatlly the engine of that striped bike is sold today, so I'm to late for stator part, but I will send it to electric workshop to see if they can repair it.
Anyways that all happend because of bad wiring, "electrician" who "fixed" the bike before I got it, got some wired mixed up. Just hope TCI is good. ??? Wish me luck ;D Here are the pictures of regulator. It will arrive in two days from now.
The regulator doesn't get much air flow behind the battery box and heat from the "Y" pipe doesn't help. Some elect to move it to a place with better air circulation.
I was looking through an electronics catalog (Jaycar probably equivalent of RadioShack or similar) and found some 12V fans in sizes tiny to small for not much moolar ($). Could be a good alternative if aesthetics rate high on your list of priorities.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, mounting the fan on regulator. It will get more air then just putting in outside, but we will see if i got any place left when all electric things get in. ???
Here are the pictures of the stator ;D
Here's an experiment I ran last season. Actually this hot mess is just one version and the most involved with heat sinks on the stator cover and a 4" 12vdc fan on the R/R. The parts are recycled computer bits. I kept my IR temp gun in my tank bag and monitored things on different rides in various temps in spring summer and fall.
The mounting plate in my post above has all the extra holes as evidence of the various configurations. It will also accept two different center to center R/R mounting holes in 2 orientations.
As far as getting cool air to the RR, I mounted mine on a small piece of specially shaped heavy duty truck mud flap and then mounted the mud flap to the left hand passenger foot peg with the RR fins facing inside toward the rear tire and the smooth side of the flap facing outward. I suspect that there is significant turbulence at that spot. If it can't get enough ventilation there, then Oh Well. The mud flap isolates the serious vibrations at the peg mounting location. Its' flexibility tolerates mounting movement without damage if, harshly contacted. I painted the mud flap semi gloss black and am considering using the flat surface for some kind of Yamaha logo, perhaps the triple Tuning Forks.
Just a little update.
I couldn't get seals here in Serbia (only from Germany, eBay) my friend is coming home from Germany about 15 june, so that was to far away for me so I decided to make my self one. ;D
I used carton paper for model, and I bought today seal material, so I just have to draw the lines with the help of the model on seal material.
I just put loctite glue on stator cover, and put carton all over it, when I made sure that carton is flat on the cover I started cutting. Before that i found a picture of original on net just to have an idea how it should look like.
And the stator is rebuild, we will see in couple of days how does it work. ;D
Does anyone know from what other Yamaha bike cable clutch fits on XZ550? ??? Can't get the damn thing here in Serbia, untill June when my buddy comes home from Germany.
I tried looking up the cable to see what other models used it and found nothing. There may be another model's cable that will work but I'm unaware of what that might be. If you find one please let the forum know.
Nice job with the alternator cover gasket and good luck with the new stator.
One question, are all TCI interchangeable on XZ 550?
Will this one fit my bike?
Type : TID12-06
11H-10
Works on my bike, exact same numbers. BDC
Hello everyone, got some "good" news >:(
I got the bike back in my garage today. And why? Because that guy didn't do nothing much for all of this time, and everytime i call him to ask about the progres he said it will be this sunday and that sunday etc. He did he did succeed to start the bike and it run like crap (at least he say so I was not there). And then he got the carbs down and cleaned them and replace electrical wires from replacement bike to mine and TCI box. The wires look allot better then mines. But that was month ago, and he was to slow, allways accepting other jobs over that one. And even those jobs he didn't finish well, everyone is complaining about him. Ah... nevermind.
In the mean time (from 6 april till today) I got allot of spare parts for the bike like (complete electrical wires, TCI, and allot of other parts of another working xz550 all for like 40 bucks).
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015104.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015108.jpg)
And also the gauge, and I refreshed a little bit. But messed up the red zone whit bad pain job lol. :'(
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015097.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015112.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015096.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Motor/23052015119.jpg) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Felony-14/media/Motor/23052015119.jpg.html)
Anyway will try to start a bike in couple of days just to check some others things.
Today I got off the YICS off the bike, and it looks like it full of oil or some other thing. Its all black inside i don't thing thats a good thing lol. Look like somebody allready open it or at least wanted to open. Those three little holes was covered with silicone. And when i put air in one of the income holes, it blew air on one of the screw holles.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150818_234655.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150818_234556.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150818_234531.jpg)
So I guess this is bad YICS? :P What should i do? Any advice is welcome :angel:
Three choices, repair it, replace it, or delete it. Easiest task is to block off vacuum lines and do without it. BDC
Slav91, one very important caution is the regulator/rectifier has a connector exactly the same shape as the TCI box, so DO NOT GET THEM MIXED UP or you will ruin the TCI unit. The 3 wires from the new stator should connect to the regulator/rectifier. The TCI box connects to wires coming out of the wiring harness. Good luck with this project.
How can I block the YICS? I have read somewhere that you can connect YICS hoes to those on carburator intake boot and that would work also? I have two place for hoes in the left carburator intake.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/19082015218.jpg)
@Fret Nut
I'm gonna check every wire beffore I try to start it, but I think it is connected good, because stator wires are not connected directly to TCI. They are going over regulator/rectifier.
Plug or cap the fittings for the YICS. :police:
I have a problem, one month ago my friend and I've tried to start the engine, and it was spining, but no luck.
Yesterday I transported the bike to local electrician, to connect disconected wires etc. And we tried to start the bike it didn't move! :-[ So we get off the started and tried with small crowbar to move it and nothing! Even put it in third gear and push it. No luck there neither. :( The pistons are stuck to cylinders, I don't understand how can that be in such short time (one month)? ???
Does anybody have an idea how to make it runing again without opening the engine? ???
Pull the spark plugs and see if it has coolant in the cylinders.
As far as I've could see only rust, no water or anything else.
Did you try to turn it over with the plugs out, spark plugs
With the spark plugs out, if there is water in the cylinder/s it will be able to turn over and pump out the water. You will still need to find out how or where the water leaked into the cylinders if that is what happened.
If it isn't a water problem, did you try turning the engine backwards or pushing the bike backwards to see if something internally has jamed to stop it from turning forward but might be able to move in reverse???????
Quote from: Slav91 on September 15, 2015, 01:43:28 PM
:( The pistons are stuck to cylinders, I don't understand how can that be in such short time (one month)? ???
Does anybody have an idea how to make it runing again without opening the engine? ???
Try squirting automatic transmission fluid into the cylinders. I had an engine locked up from rust on the rings. BDC
Quote from: Single Carb Vision on September 15, 2015, 03:05:39 PM
If it isn't a water problem, did you try turning the engine backwards or pushing the bike backwards to see if something internally has jamed to stop it from turning forward but might be able to move in reverse???????
No I've haven't tried. I will try that tomorow if the WD-40 thing don't help. I have sprayed the whole can of WD-40 into each cylinder, hope that will work.
@Re-Vision
You mean ATF? I will try that, some say that its better to put petrol (old petrol lamps use that) into cylinders. Or even brake oil, but I think that to agresive for that use.
50% ATF and 50% Acetone mix is almost as good as Kroil.
The older the ATF the better, it's thinner than new stuff.. And let it sit for a day or so
Remember if the engine does free up, you'll be changing the oil before trying to start it again.
Quote from: devotee on September 15, 2015, 04:38:12 PM
50% ATF and 50% Acetone mix is almost as good as Kroil.
I just google it and its called weasel piss and it looks like it works. :D I will buy acetone tomorow and make a mix of it. Look like its pretty strong liquid.
Quote from: Slav91 on September 15, 2015, 01:43:28 PM
I have a problem, one month ago my friend and I've tried to start the engine, and it was spining, but no luck.
Yesterday I transported the bike to local electrician, to connect disconected wires etc. And we tried to start the bike it didn't move! :-[ So we get off the started and tried with small crowbar to move it and nothing! Even put it in third gear and push it. No luck there neither. :( The pistons are stuck to cylinders, I don't understand how can that be in such short time (one month)? ???
Does anybody have an idea how to make it runing again without opening the engine? ???
didn't you just have the left cover off to replace the stator ?
I would probably start there, at least you can get a breaker bar on the flywheel.
good luck.
The stator is changed and its all assembled.
Well no luck with WD-40 thing. :( I have putted ATF in both cylinders and gonna leave it for couple of days when electrician finish his part of job then I will have one less thing to worry about. :P And if ATF doesn't help does anyone have a tutorial how to dissasemble cylinders? I mean about the details, what I should be carefull about.
Update
All electric thing are finish, and we got it un-freezed, with help of starter and third get, he throw all ATF in the air. :D
But there is a sound comming from the back cylinder, something like clic clack when we starting it. Hope its just camshaft and need just oiling a bit. :P
I have tried to start it, and there is white smoke comming from the exaust and from carburator air intake, there was two (bangs from the exaust) does anybody knows what it is about the smoke thing?
It's the ATF. BDC
I tried againt to started it, and again there are bangs, but smoke comes only from the exaust of rear cylinder.
But i thinkg i have another problem, did anyone have a problem with oil moisturizing in front of the radiator? There were ATF all around the bike, but i don't see how can it be in front of the radiator, is it possible that one cylinder seal broke and mix up oil and watter?
Is the smoke white? or blue?
pull the rear plug and check for rust on the electrode.
Check the radiator for sludge on the cap.
You might have a leaky head gasket.
That might be why the motor was frozen in the first place. :'(
Slav91, I think you need a repair manual. It sounds to me that you will be taking the rear cylinder apart. That probably means to remove the engine from the frame.
Turning the key on and off can cause a cylinder to fire with a big BANG!
@NITROPOLIS
The smoke is white. The rear plus isn't rusty inside, but outside of cylinder. And here are the pictures of radiator cap and radiator hole. It looks ok to me.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150919_151800.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150919_151805.jpg)
Here are the pic of front side of the radiator. :P
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150919_151833.jpg)
@Fret nut
I only have service manual print. :D Looks like I'm gonna need printing repair manual lol. :P
I have conected gauge today, and it looks that some of the lamps don't work. Does anyone know where should the wires from the gauges go into chassy?
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150919_155941.jpg)
I just putted mine like this, there are not long enought to put them like other ones from headlight and control buttons. ???
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20150919_155950.jpg)
Salv91, the 'clicking' sound may be the valves need adjustment, . . . or it may mean the rear connecting rod has bad bearings. I would check the valve clearances first. Also check the cam chain adjusters for proper tension of the cam chain.
Early stage exhaust silver disc failure sounds like a loose valve.
Huston we have a problem :( I have putted new gas cable, and wanted to make a video how it looks when I'm trying to start it (to give you better pic whats going on). And it was all different, when I tried to start it it wouldnt even make "boom" from exhaust (I was expecting that by the look on my face. ;D)
Something else happen, it made hard hit (looks like inside of engine) and i think its the valve. I'm not quite sure. ???
Here are the video.
http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Sk.mp4
Quote from: fret nut on September 26, 2015, 02:40:41 AM
Salv91, the 'clicking' sound may be the valves need adjustment, . . . or it may mean the rear connecting rod has bad bearings. I would check the valve clearances first. Also check the cam chain adjusters for proper tension of the cam chain.
Where are the cam chain adjusters?
In the video the starter sounds like the battery has low state of charge. The TCI ignition system needs a minimum of 10.5 volts from the battery or it won't work. The battery must be fully charged.
If the cam chain slips a tooth or two it puts the cam 'out of time', then it can lift a valve at the wrong time and is possible to make valve contact with top of piston.
I have tried to turn cam chain adjuster screw in front and back cylinder, and in the back it didn't move but in the front it did little. So i gues I need to get the engine out and check for valve timing. Probably because of that the front cylinder didn't have smoke, both cylinders have spark, but only the rear made "boom" sound and had smoke comming out of his exaust.
You don't really need to remove the engine to check the cam timing. Don't do a lot of extra work you don't need to do.
This is what i need to follow right?
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/96996cb4-3ff0-4f91-bad0-4b365b61ec1c.jpg)
I've got a bad feeling that you are fixing to go down an invalid and potentially fatal rabbit hole. The "hard hit" you spoke of may be a common characteristic of a V being cranked with a weak battery. They all do it and it sounds like hell. Before you jump to dangerous conclusions and tear your engine apart without even knowing what you are looking for, do this: Fully charge the battery. Remove the air cleaner. Put a little starter fluid/ether down each carb throat. Key on. Push starter button. Report results here. If starter fluid is unavailable use gasoline instead.
There you have the voice of Reason and Experience. :D Thank you for that wise direction.
I opened the valve covers. The chain tensioner is fully loaded, the front cylinder is a little loose, not to much maybe 1 mm and tensioner is fully loaded. And here are the pictures of crankshaft. In the time when I was making photos the rear piston was at the top end.
Rear cylinder
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20151011_193636.jpg)
And front cylinder.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20151011_193823.jpg)
It looks ok ? ???
Now I was reading some post here (after opening the valves cover :-\ ) and there was some guy I think Canada that had similar problems, and after he cut off wires for rev limiter the engine started. What cylinder rev limiter kills if its always on? There are sparks on spark plugs on both cylinders.
Looks OK, but it's hard to judge alignment from this side. Over the back of the sprocket there is a dent on the cam, make sure that is lining up with the mark on the head.
Are you doing your valve lash while you are in there? One of the best things you can do to make your Vision run well.
I hope your bike starts to work as well as your camera, those are very nice pictures.
@ProphetOdDoom
When I put dents on the arrows they match (both crankcase dents on one cylinder are on their arrow points) in every cylinder when I move them. But I'm confused, if crankcase in front cylinder are in position like on this picture, should be crankcases on back cylinder be in their position like in the picture of back cylinder? Or they should look like that separately when I put them on their math points?
@Single Carb Vision
Hahahah at least that thing works his job hahahaha :D
I will try to assemble the bike and cut the rev limiter wire, it should be black and yellow wire on the gauge right? ??? Because I didn't have the gauges when i bouth the bike it was separately puted on bike wire harnes so I will cut that thing to, and try to start the bike with full baterry once again. :-\
Quote from: Slav91 on October 13, 2015, 06:16:23 AM
When I put dents on the arrows they match (both crankcase dents on one cylinder are on their arrow points) in every cylinder when I move them. But I'm confused, if crankcase in front cylinder are in position like on this picture, should be crankcases on back cylinder be in their position like in the picture of back cylinder? Or they should look like that separately when I put them on their math points?
The picture is a little confusing - your bike will never look like this for both cylinders at the same time.
Rotate the crank (clockwise) till you see T showing through the round window from the flywheel. The Front cylinder should now match the picture but the rear will not.
Rotate again till you see 2T through the window. Now the rear cylinder should look like the picture but the front will not.
And flywheel is where stator is right? Under Yamaha YICS plate? Can I use impact screwdriver to get screws loose, because they are not moving with regular one. :-\
Sure. BDC
They are JIS screws I think, ideally you would use a JIS screwdriver. I suppose an impact driver would be OK but you may ruin the screws.
The YICS plate gives you access to the crankshaft. Use a socket to turn it (Take your spark plugs out so you don't have compression to deal with).
The big screw a bit higher up and to the right is a window for the edge of the flywheel so you can see the markings. It's plastic so I use a washer/pliers to undo it and not mark it up.
This is the position of first T
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/T1.jpg)
Position of front cylinder
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Prvi1.jpg)
Position of back cylinder
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Drugi1.jpg)
This is the position of second T
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20151017_122618.jpg)
Position of front cylinder
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Prva2.jpg)
Position of back cylinder
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Drugi2.jpg)
It does look a little bit weird? :-\
I think it looks weird maybe because it's not TDC compresion stroke. Try turning the crank one more revolution and see how they look then.
Quote from: hoverhead47 on October 17, 2015, 12:06:49 PM
I think it looks weird maybe because it's not TDC compresion stroke. Try turning the crank one more revolution and see how they look then.
You were right, one more turn to T 1 and T2 and it was all in place. So I assembled the engine and tried to start it with start fluid and almost nothing, the battery although charged went weak again. Its only 9 Ah 12v battery because 14 Ah wouldn't fit in the place, hope that not the problem. :-\
Anyway something did happen when i putted start fluid, got small bang front exaust of last cylinder and smoke comming from carburator of front cylinder. ???
Here is the link for the video, and also if you can see on the end of the video I'm video taping carbs inlet, is that correct way for nozzle to put fuel in cylinder or it needs to be sort of "fog"? Sorry for my bad english can't find a word for that. :-\ I did dissasemble the carbs and didn't find much dirt just some small slimy parts ??? , and I have putted parts in gasoline for the night. Is there anything on carbs that i need to look carefull for problems? I did have one problem that if i putted the "pilot" gas tank over it the fuel had leaked where are the choke valve but on the other side of housing?
http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/E_1.mp4
I'm thinking that maybe should get the carbs cleaned in ultrasound cleaning machine, but I'm scared that it will damage the seals that are not available here.
The way it is cranking I would say the voltage is too low to get a spark. See what the battery voltage is while cranking. The stream out of the front carb look fine, but I never saw anything come out of the rear one.
Quote from: jefferson on October 19, 2015, 05:58:03 PM
The way it is cranking I would say the voltage is too low to get a spark. See what the battery voltage is while cranking. The stream out of the front carb look fine, but I never saw anything come out of the rear one.
Thats because I didn't pull the throtle when I was videotaping rear one. Any advice how to start engine with empty carbs? Is there any preparations? And can I use battery from car? Will it make any damage to XZ electrics?
And one more thing, were does the hose from bottom of fuel pump plug in?
Start by reading reply #67, dated Oct. 6 in this thread.
I hope this is connected good on manifold of rear cylinder, I have two connector for hose.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20151021_205455.jpg)
I have a problem, this is the carburator fuel level, on rear cylinder carb I have fuel, its in the level with the gasket. And on front I don't have, at least on that plastic hose connector thing, I have unscrewed the drain screw and I got fuel comming out of it, but none from white/brown hose connector. ???
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20151021_205431.jpg)
When you use a hose like that to read your float level you have to be very careful that the hose doesn't move. Hold the hose immobile and then open the screw to see where the level is. If the hose is moved and more fuel flows into it and then it is put back in place the level will be high. Just wanted to make that point just in case.
Should both spark plugs give spark at the same time? O.o Maybe thats the problem. :-\
Double spark is normal for the V design. Investigate "wasted spark" on this forum.
Wasted spark is every 360 degree cycle of the crankshaft(one rotation) for each cylinder, but front and rear are not at the same time, 70 degrees of crank rotation between the front and real sparks.
When I try to start the bike, fuel should come out from the nozzle which is in the center ?
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/VW%20Corrado%20%20G60/20151208_211638.jpg)
The nozzle where the accelerator pump squirts fuel is the copper colored tube with a 90 degree bend, just on the left side (9:00 on the clock face) of the center of the venturi. It is sticking out of the side wall of the carb throat and pointing down into the carburetor throat.
Nice picture, very clear.
Quote from: fret nut on November 15, 2015, 12:27:00 AM
Wasted spark is every 360 degree cycle of the crankshaft(one rotation) for each cylinder, but front and rear are not at the same time, 70 degrees of crank rotation between the front and real sparks.
Can I activate the sparks when I turn crankchaft manualy if the ignition button is ON?
Haven't messing with the bike lately, got VW Corrado project (my old wish) and the bike is like it was at the previous owner in the corner. Last time I tried to start it the battery when dead after a few turns, can I use car battery? It has 12v 55 Ah 480 A (EN) tech data.
I think it is very difficult to turn the crankshaft by hand fast enough to cause the ignition pulse coils to generate a pulse. However, I have not tried to do this.
If your battery is that close to dead, you likely won't see any spark because there won't be sufficient battery voltage to generate sparks. Although I have not tried, with an adequately charged battery I think one should be able to see sparks as the crankshaft is turned manually. You likely won't though, until you increase your battery voltage. You can connect a car battery to your Vision to aid starting.
I have tried to start it, but some fog is going from carburator of back cylinder. It looks like its going from one of those three holes that are aside on carburator. Maybe the carburator is jammed from like 5 months staying? I have putted car battery on charging, hope I will have time tomorow to clean the carbs and try it again.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/VW%20Corrado%20%20G60/20151208_211638.jpg)
Here is the video, it is more visible when I put air filther on.
http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Ex.mp4
The fog is vaporized gasoline. You should have it in both of the carbs so it sounds like there may not be fuel in the front carb or it is not making it through the passages.
Yeah the front carb was dry, and it only came from the rear one. Is that vaporizing normal?
I do not recall seeing that much vapor coming out of the carburetors during starter cranking on the Vision or any other motorcycle. Does the engine have decent compression? Could valves on the rear cylinder be leaking or out of proper time?
Today i started fully to dissasemble the carburators and this thing broke. :-\ Hope I find a way to fix it, and there is another problem, the ball from accelerator nozzle is missing, last time I've dissasemble carburators haven't touch the accelerator nozzles so probably previous mechanics lost it. The spark of front cyl was dry and from the rear cyl was wet from gas.
And when I open carburator heads, there was uneven gasoline in float chambers, is there anything especialy that I should look for cleaning?
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160326_192158.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160326_192140.jpg)
And one more thing, how can I take off float bowl from carburator head? I want to clean the jets behind them.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160326_192215.jpg)
Yeah and I have one question, is it normal to sparks goes on when ignition is ON but without pushing the start button? ??? Because they do that on my bike in some time interval. :P
Believe it or not, yes....sometimes. Also, be very very careful in removing the float pivot pen. They do not come out intuitively. If removal is improperly attempted, it is very easy to break one of the float pedestals. If that happens, a product called JB Weld can probably glue it back together.
Can another Vnary please explain to Slav91 how to remove the pivot pin correctly, without breaking it. qbs.
I don't know about correctly, but what has worked for me is using a small thin screwdriver to work the head of the pin away from the post by prying against the post. You may need to progress to a larger screwdriver also to completely remove the pin. I have also used a small pair of side cutters to pry the pin out the rest of the way once the head is out far enough to grab with them. It would not be advisable to try to punch the pin out from the other side.
The owners manual Section (4-3) says Gently tap the float pivot pin and remove the pin and float assembly BE CAREFUL NOT TO CLOSE THE FLOAT VALVE, WHICH IS UNDER THE FLOAT ARM. If I was familiar with posting pictures here I do that but I'm not. Good luck.
I don't like to follow the owners manual - just tapping puts strain on the very fragile legs.
I put the leg with the pin head up against a vice to support it then tap the other side of the pin with a pin drift. Works every time. JIS screwdriver to remove the float valve retaining screw.
I sprayed the WD40 in top half of each carburator where the hose from the gas pump goes on. The rear cyl top half did make their way to the other exit inside carburator. But the front cyl top half didn't, looks like something is jammed there and gasoline can't go into front cyl carb. I even tried compresed air but no luck. :-X Gonna try tomorow to remove float pivot pen. Today I've found other ball from accelerator nozzle that I lost. Also gonna make new seals for float chamber, I damage the old ones when I remove them, because i was taking emulsion jet out. :-\
And one more thing the float bowl metal part in the middle that press the float needle valve does it suppose to be in line with sheet metal around him or little up? On both carb top half they are in different possition. ???
Slav91, it is a bit unclear to me what you are asking, but you are so very good with photography maybe you can show a picture of what you are asking about. This may help others when dealing with the same area.
Here it is, circle in blue. :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/2016-03-28%2007.40.46.png)
That tab circled in blue is how you adjust the floats so the fuel level is correct in the bowl. Floats are all a bit different so there is no set angle for it to be on.
When the carb is assembled, you need to fill it with fuel, attach a clear hose to the overflow pointing upwards and then open the drain screws to check the level. The procedure for this is in the service manual.
Actually the manual lists TWO ways to check. One is measuring the float distance from the carb top when inverted like in your picture. This is just a rough check. The only way to do it properly is the height of the fuel as described above.
If you don't have a service manual, download one from this thread (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12221.msg111223#msg111223) . I'm guessing for Serbia, but think your bike is an 11U model so download the manual XZ550 (11U) Service Manual EN,FR,DE The US models have some differences not seen in the rest of the world.
Do you or don't you like the Manual? You statements seem to be conflicting.
Today I got float bowls out of each carburator.
I grinded smaller part of the pin with power grinder and putted the carb top in vise clamps and kick the pin out, and later just got the bigger part of pin with hand clamps and get them out.
Weird part is that nothing was there to block gas way in front cylinder top. Its weird because I didn't have air flow nor WD40 through them :-\ Anyway I'm gonna buy new seals for them also, they look old and kinda like plastic. About the needle valve everything look fine, they don't look like they are damaged.
Thank you guys for the advice. :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160328_204753.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160328_205234.jpg)
I also notice this in difference bettwen two carbs, in one carb there is this bras ball and in another there is nothing there just hole? Is that how it suppose to be? ???
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160327_163944.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160327_163940.jpg)
@ProphetOfDoom
I think I have service manual printed, it's somewhere in garage, gotta check it. ???
Slaz, you might want to avoid all of the problems of the stock carburetors by changing over to a single carburetor. You'll need to make an intake manifold like you see in the picture by my name. It is just aluminum tubing in a "Y" shape. The bottom of the manifold goes to the rubber couplings that are currently at the heads and the top one goes to a single carburetor you can find that will fit in the space you have available and will supply enough fuel for operation. It might be a much easier way for you to proceed.
Sorry about misspelling your name.
Yeah I was thinking the same, but not sure from what bike should I use it. Even if I loose HP ( and i don't have any at the moment :D ) this bike is in bobber style, it doesn't have to be fast like original one. But I want to start the bike first, then if I have problems with carbs I will see to change them to single one. And about the name, no problem. :D
You're already having the problems! Getting tubing welded to make an intake manifold should not cost too much. You might also need a 90 degree elbow for the top of the manifold to attach a slide carburetor to it. Then just go to a junk yard and grab the cheapest carburetor/s you can find and try a few out. Once you have the manifold you can try anything available. I've never pulled the tank off of mine since it was done so I'm not sure exactly what is there or I would tell you. I'll try and get some more info for you from the shop that did my work.
Why don't you pull the tank and see what carb you have? I'll send instructions if you need them. BDC
Because I'm old and lazy. My back starts hurting pretty quickly when I start bending over to work on things. Never thought I'd make 50 and now I've made it to 71.
Slav 91, your photos are super!
You might have some passage in the front carburetor body that is plugged.
I looked in a set of '82 USA carbs and one carb body has a plug and the other does not. The plug I see is flat, not dome like a ball as the one in your photo.
Slav91 and fret nut - regarding the brass ball (going from memory) I believe the carb with the ball is the rear carb which has the accelerator pump. The front carb is not machined for a pump but rather gets it's fuel via a hose from the rear carb.
@Rikugun
Yeah you are right. :D
I still need to reasemble the carbs just got the o-rings two days ago.
But I wanted to check the marks on camshafts because I was in hurry last time(stupid me) So I opened the front and rear camshaft cover and putted front and later rear cyl at T marks on rotor. The rear cyl camshaft markings are all in place when i put it on "I T2". But he camshafts of front cyl, intake and exaust looks like they slip one toth. I have one question did I place marking on rotor good on "I" mark or should I put it at "T" ? And how can I move camshafts in right place without any special tools? Thanks.
Mark on first cyl.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160406_204332.jpg)
Exaust camshaft
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160406_204552.jpg)
Intake camshaft
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160406_204614.jpg)
I have a problem with my carbs. I have clean them because front carb didn't got any fuel and now its oposite + the fuel is coming out of choke overflow of front carb. Does anyone know where the problem is? I wanted to check the gas level in bouth carbs but the carb of rear cylinder didn't have any gas. And front cylinder if full of gas. :-\
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160410_191418.jpg)
Is the float valve functioning ? It needs to open to allow fuel into the carburetor.
I would begin at the carburetor and work back along the fuel line looking for blockage. The fuel line to the carbs is shaped like a "T", and that might be the first place to look, as it comes in one line from the fuel pump and splits at the "T" to each carb. Since fuel is getting to the one carb fuel must be getting to the "T". It is a very short distance from the "T" to each carb. This causes me to think there is a blockage in one side of the "T" or the float valve is not functioning properly.
I bet its the float valve, because I have clean the carburators + the gas is new just from petrol station in clean bottle. I must adjust the float level so that they close right in time and gotta check it are they even working. I had similar isue couple months ago, when my pilot tank was high they overflow from each choke. ???
But does anyone know how to adjust float bowl?
Adjust the fuel level in the float bowl by bending that little metal tab on the float you were asking about previously.
Any measurements or just on felling?
Use the clear tubing you already have attached to the float bowl overflow spigots to measure the fuel level inside each bowl. The fuel level should be at about the same level as the float bowl gasket. The measurement should be made with the carbs level. In your picture the left hand carb appears to be set at the approximately correct level. There is some speculation within the V community regarding drivability improvements/changes related to higher or lower fuel levels. Perhaps another V member can provide more specifics. Setting the float bowl fuel levels is described in the Haynes manual.
+1 on the clear tubing, but I think the level is 20mm below the gasket. Check the manual to be sure.
It's most probably the float valve - you can replace the o-ring with a standard viton (fuel safe) one - it's a standard metric size. If the valve is corroded, some metal polish may help shine it up so it will seat better
Setting your float bowl levels correctly is critical for good performance
I have change the o-rings on both float valves, they are oil and gas resistant. I'm gona disassemble the tops again and see if there is a problem with how float valve sits and shut down the fuel. Maybe one of the problems is how float bowl push the valves. I have reajust that part on float bowl what push the valve, because couple of months ago I had gas leaking in both carburator choke overflows. Gues I did it wrong. :-X
Quote from: Slav91 on April 12, 2016, 05:51:36 PM
I had gas leaking in both carburator choke overflows. Gues I did it wrong. :-X
Unfortunately Yes, i think overflowing on one and no fuel at all in the other is not so much of an improvement :( .
If you look at Haynes it shows a way of rough checking the float by measuring with the top removed and inverted, the gap between the gasket and the float. This can save a lot of time, but gets you close only. The only way to get it right is thee way you measured.
When I was doing mine I put some hose where the T piece goes and blew into it. Even closed I could blow! That was when I realised there was corrosion in the float valve seat letting fuel through when closed.
The same will help you find your blockage I think on the other carb.
I did have circle on one of the valves ??? at least now I know where to look for problems. Thanks :D
Got allot of work at my job so didn't have much time working on the bike. Anyway at free time I got fuel level all good in both carbs and then I assemble it, bench test it it was all good until i put it back on the bike and this time it didn't overflow on overflow holes. I don't know how but the air inlet of front carb got full of fuel (over the brass plate) I got it all clean so It didn't go into cylinder(it was air tight) when i put the gas on and off the fuel got into the cylinder again it was filling the venturi with fuel on some level then it stoped. Does anyone have an idea where to look? The good thing both sparks on cyl have fuel on them, so one problem is fixed but got the other one now. :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160504_213003.jpg)
An interesting dilemma indeed. If fuel did not flow from the carb overflow tubes I'll assume the engine did not fill with fuel through the carbs. I have a possible solution but it requires more assumptions. :)
I'll assume your petcock is a vacuum type and the vacuum line that feeds it comes from the front cylinder. I'll then assume the diaphragm in the petcock has a hole or tear. I'm imagining fuel flowing through the tear or hole to the wrong side of the diaphragm into the vacuum line then into the front cylinder's intake manifold. The final assumption involves the intake valve being closed and functionally sealing well which then causes the gas to back up the manifold and fill the carb's venturi from below.
Not sure, but the routeing of the clear hose to the black spigot looks suspect.
QBS - you don't like my highly speculative and unlikely scenario!? :)
While not original, the clear hose appears to be connected properly to the pressure regulator. Someone with a spare set handy might verify though.
Rik, I'm just happy to see you back here again. Good man.
Thank you QBS, I appreciate that. :)
I hadn't noticed he'd been gone. Did you get banned Rikugun?
Oh Rohan, don't be so coy. Have you forgotten the heartfelt letters we exchanged on a weekly basis? ;) OOPS! Oh dear, it's out in the open now.... Well, I don't think your girlfriend reads the forum - you're probably safe.
And no, I wasn't banned. That would have been one for the record books based on duration though. While I've only come close to joining the "Banned Club", there is always the future. Save me a space.
I have tried to start it. Now the good news is that smoke is coming from both exaust and there is no bang like it use to be. As for gasoline problem it has disapear, the petcock is not original nor it is vacun operated it is just simple "open" and "close" valve with electrical valve (when you prime the bike it lets gas flow, but that is dissabled). My gues it stayed to much time on "open" side so it overflow on some way. Now when I give throtle when I try to start it it had some life in it (like its about to start) but no luck. And it hapened that it throws air from front carb I think. How should i put the fuel mix screw? Maybe it doesn't get any fuel on hole under the brass plate? ???
Well the bike is haunted. I have started it without radiator. But with choke and throtle on, without it it goes dead. And it did work but as soon i let the start button it stops. Its 15 seconds on the end of the video. Nevermind my happines :D
http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160508_190335.mp4
And this is the second time with radiator and cooling. No luck, it tries to start but there are fire coming from the carburators of front cyl. :(
http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/Nov.mp4
Here are the shorted videos. :D
When it started(it doesn't sound right)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5Yb62xCwg
And after i assembled the radiator and put coolant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYbwz6f6-E
I got it started, dissasemble the carbs , the front cyl carburator didn't have good level. Now it started little easyer and its working, but as soon it hits less then 1100 rpm it dies. I need to hold throtle and choke on. Also I'm hearing some knock noises coming from the front cylinder, and sometimes from starter when I'm starting the engine, it sounds like grinding a gear.
Here is the video of working engine, nevermind the smoke coming from the exaust pipe, one screw isn't put good in place. I think that you can hear the knocking also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HAlB4pkOaI&feature=youtu.be
At 11k rpm you might be hitting the rev limiter. The Red Line is 10k rpm. Have you reattached the starter clutch to the rotor/flywheel?
That knocking sounds like it might be the starter clutch getting loose. I would look into it before trying to run the motor any more because the damage it can cause is more than the bike is worth. Just remember that a little bit of prevention is worth a whole lot of 'cure'.
@QBS I have putted 1100 rpm not 11000 rpm :D
Now I found a post on this forum which describes the problems what I have, now my valves are out of spec not much but they are and I didn't do the adjustmens because I don't have shims but that will come also with time. :D
Quote1. At idle there is a knocking sound from the engine. Sounds scary to me, but I'm not used to motorcycle-engines, maybe that is a normal sound. 6/8 valves were out of spec, but I have adjusted all of them now (and yes, it's no problem doing that without the special tool, just loosen the camchain and lift the cams as much as possible).
2. The starter seems to have problems engaging. Maybe two of three times when I push the starter-button the starter sounds like if it misses the gears, not a nice sound, I would say it eats gears... Seems completely random wether it engages correct or not.
And Lucky replied to him
QuoteThat is the starter clutch being loose due to the bolts backing out, QBS is right, the fix is on my site. the only thing i couldn't tell is weather or not the banging went away over 2500rpm or so. if not, that indicates the balancer nuts may be loose as well, often both problems are present. neither fix is particuarly expensive to do.
--Lucky
So I gues I need fixing it before it goes horribly wrong. The balance nuts and starter clutch are all under stator cover? ???
I want to check everything that I can while the stator cover is off the bike.
I misread your 1100 rpm comment. Sorry. Yes, the starter clutch and balance shaft nut are under the stator cover. While you have the cover off, visually inspect the stator for being charred/burnt. More importantly, with the stator coil mounted on the stator cover, check for electrical continuety between each stator coil output wire and the stator cover, and please report your findings heare.
The stator is repaired couple months ago. ;D But I will check it just to be sure. Is there any tutorial about how to dissasemble it?
EDIT: I found it, with pictures on this thread.
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=6525.0
And there is even on youtube :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycTVbV0y7HY
No need to disassemble the stator from the stator cover to do this test.
Yes but for thw starting clutch and balance nut i must. :D
EDIT: I have dissasembled the stator side and by the look of it one screw got unscrewed. I'm happy because thats probably that problem which made that knocking noise. I gotta get rotor puller so I can get off the rotor and fix that because I don't have a such small rotor. Three new screws and thread locker glue. ;D
QuoteAnd there is even on youtube :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycTVbV0y7HY
That's a relatively new video - new member or member lurker? It's a 3 part vid that's helpful but is a little light on details to be a tutorial. The real crime is that it's shot in portrait.
I got home from work at 12:30 PM and got the rotor puller from my work place. And I get rotor off with not much of a hassle.
Well I found out that my midle name isn't Lucky hahahahahah :D Its not only one screw, but all three of them are cut off, and by the look of them they have been in that stage quite a while, probably at the previous owner.
Now even some threads in rotor are damage. The most interesting part is starter clutch, should I get a new one? It works fine in one direction and jams in another(which is suppose to do) but the thin metal plate is hardly damage.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160512_113154.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160513_005558.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160513_005628.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160513_005706.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160513_005719.jpg)
Check out the starter clutch for any possible cracks. That is a very hard piece of metal, and it is a bit brittle, so it is very important that there are NO cracks developing. The sheet metal cover looks rather "used". If there is a way you can position it so it helps retain the rollers and can still be held firmly in place it should be OK to use again. but if that is not feasible I would look for another sheet metal cover. It would have to be a used part as it is not available as a separate part. It is part of the starter clutch assembly.
By the way, it is the same starter clutch used in several other Yamaha motorcycles, for example the V-Max, and the 1200cc Venture.
What about new? I look there are like 75 euros, and there are 35$ but made in Taiwan. I don't know where the first one is made, maybe in Eastern Europe.
As you found, there are affordable new units available now. I'd go with one of them.
The original one was probably OEM Yamaha from Japan. The OEM part quality is not the problem. The factory procedure for attaching the clutch to the rotor is at fault. Yamaha didn't understand/appreciate the very short and abrupt sharp/hard rpm accelerations the crankshaft experiences at low/idle engine speeds. This is due to the Visions V twin design. Basically the clutch is being jerked back and forth on the surface of the rotor. That is the source of of the knocking noise at idle The proof is that above 2500 rpm the failed attacement noise goes away because the crankshaft is rotating fast enough that the loosened clutch doesn't have time to move back and forth, because the combustion shocks are happening too fast.
I think, that when Yamaha designed their V assembly procedure for the rotor and clutch, they used 4 cylinder thinking and never considered the difference in the firing dynamics of a high compression V twin.
If they had designed in some type self locking mating surface system between the clutch housing and the surface of the rotor (instead of mating two flat surfaces) the problem wouldn't have existed. Even so, just peening the ends of the attachment screws would have avoided the problem. But would have probably have taken a little more time. A sad and unacceptable situation.
I was just thinking today. If I disasemble the sheet metal cover from clutch, grind all that damage small parts off thats are damage from the clutch screews so they dont fall of in oil. And clean good from oil the clutch and sheet metal cover then put heat resistance silicone or maybe even better liquid metal in places between clutch sheet metal so it holds it together so it doesn move and also press back the edges it should work. Its a little redneck fix but it should work. :D I just need to check the clutch detaily. I have only tested it with hand and it always brake in one side so it should be good.
That is one of the worst possible places to put silicon sealant OR liquid metal. DO NOT do that. If you put that stuff inside your engine, it will not end well for you.
I know what you mean but it would be between sheet metal and clutch. Not on open.
Don't do it.
Any recomendations for starter clutch? They are various prices, but I think that some of them have pump the price of starter clutch and its the same one cheaper that is made in China. :-X
Is your starter clutch housing/body cracked?
I have detaily inspected and no its not. :D
EDIT: I have grinded those "extra" parts of sheet plate that is damaged. Putted back on rotor and the sheet metal doesn't move and the clutch works. So I don't need anything to hold the plate on place, I'm just gonna press parts sheet metal into holes on sides of the clutch that sliped. I'm just waiting for the screws to come and to get a hold of Loctite 243.
I have started the bike today, and no more knocking sound, so I got starter clutch sorted out. ;D But the rpm goes up and down, and when I push throtle a little bit more, about 3000 rpm and let go of the throtle it's slowly going down at about 1200 rpm and still it goes up and down. The bike can't start without giving it a little thortle from time to time.
Now the bike sat about two weeks so I gues that I'm gonna clean the carbs again and check for vacum leaks. The YICS box that was on it had three holes(I don't think thats factory) I opened it and my question is it worth fixing it? ???
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160602_212042.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160602_212054.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/20160602_212048.jpg)
Hi Slav. To avoid any hassles with the YICS unit leaking, simply take it off and blank off the vacuum ports on the engine case. When the bike is running well, have a go at putting it back on to see if it makes an improvement. Many people run their 550's without a YICs for trouble free motoring.
Slavko that's quite a coincidence, in the German forum www.xz550de are solving problem with YICS. One user (XZ-Ernie) is going to make more boxes for another members. I'm also still solving leaking YICS, so I'm writting him for one for me. Try it too.
http://xz550.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=705
@Jirik
It is not hard to copy YICS(at least I think), I had a plan to measure YICS chambers with syringe and then transfer that luqid into some metal pipe, mark it where it ends, cut it and then weld it and leave one hole for hose. :D
Now I have blank off the vacuum ports on the engine case for the YICS. And when I'm starting it, sometimes I can hear just one knock noise after that starting stops, true one more time and no knocks, it happens from time to time, the starter clutch is sorted out.
Started the bike couple days ago, and it works fine even throtle response is good. I have driven it out of garage. But as soon I minimise the choke the rpm goes up without touching the throtle. Now I got responce from one guy from FB.
QuoteYour pilots are clogged, it's running lean. I've often sad that after cleaning the carbs they can foul up again because actually running the bike acts like a sonic cleaner and loosens scale in the carb dipping didn't get the first time
And after I have cleaned the carbs once again its acting the same, there was a little dirt in them. Choke in the midle the rpm are normal when pulling the throtle. When i go on full choke the rpm goes fast down (under 1000 rpm) when I twist throtle and let it go. When I put it in gear and the choke is in the midle, the rpm goes slow down after leting the throtle with clutch on. And sometimes when I twist the throtle and hit 3k rpm it stays like that after leting the throtle, I didn't want to try it out on longer distance because I didn't want to end in some ditch near the road. :D Any idea what to check? :D
And I have notice that there was oil in one of the exausts, now the bike had seized pistons couple months ago, and I couldn't move it, I putted the ATF oil in both cylinders and with help of starter and third gear I got it unfreze. Is it posible that one of the ring on piston broke and thats why I got oil in the exaust? One exaust ( I think its the first cylinder) got more smoke coming out then other cyl. ???
Now those oil holes on crankshaft covers does they have something to do with nice engine runing? I know they go to airbox but i have KN's on my carburator, don't have where to put them up.
Those holes are to vent crankcase pressure. There will be oil vapor coming out of these. As a suggestion you might be able to put fuel filters on them to catch the vapor.
Quote from: Slav91 on June 13, 2016, 02:29:18 PM
Now those oil holes on crankshaft covers does they have something to do with nice engine runing? I know they go to airbox but i have KN's on my carburator, don't have where to put them up.
Run them into a oil catch can
Slavko: I have measured that in the past and volumes are: 78-80 ml ( http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=9982.msg140783#msg140783 )
Stainless YICS from Germany is very well produced, but it is for me too expensive. I planned make something, which will be looking as original.
@ProphetOfDoom
Something like this?
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/kdyoadrzpnvh3ojhggmf.jpg)
@Jirik
Ah so somebody alredy got it :D thats good. :D
Any ideas why engine is acting weird? ???
Like this one from 3:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQvmeFD7M9U
Quote from: Slav91 on June 14, 2016, 09:24:06 AM
Something like this?
Like that, but one with a filter on the top.
The YICS is an awkward shape to reproduce nicely. Do a search on boost bottles. They are widely used on small 2-stroke engines and about the same capacity.
Sounds like your carbs are not synced. Have you done that with a vacuum gauge?
I have just research that, and no I haven't done it. Will see to find the tool for it or mechanic who does it. If not, then DIY is an option. ;D Thanks for the tip! :)
Hi guys.
Here are the updates. I got starter rebuild as it broke down when the buyes came to buy the bike, and they have quit because they thought the starter clutch is broke down (i checked and it stays the same as it use to be when i fix it), the truth is the batery was low and starter looked like it hasn't been touched for decades. :D
And + it stoped runing at first cylinder (dirty spark plug). The bike likes me so much it won't go to other owner. ;D
Anyways, after that I started the bike and it runned fine with both cylinder and no smoke coming from the first one(i thought it
was the broken piston ring).
But it just stoped smoking and I don't know why. I didn't do anything on it.
Now here are the problems my XZ won't work without choke full ON or in the middle. When I turn it off it starts to get hight RPM. So my gues it doesn't get the fuel in normal way it should. And it got vacum leaks. Is there anything removable under the screw that Is located on bottom of the carburetor?
After all that problem I have putted heat resistant silicon over intake boots and cleaned the carburators, and ordered new carburetor gaskets, they are 1.5 mm thin, and the one I made was 2 mm. Maybe the level of fuel isn't good enough? And after reassembly the carburetors the damn thing won't start.
It fires hard from the exaust when I get the throtle spin. So I gues it doesn't get the fuel like it should be. Altho I have cleaned the carb, every peace of it. Got problem with my emulsion tubes, can't get them out, they are stucked but I found solution for it browsing the forum, gonna try it tomorow. And I have problem with my jets. They are 120 and 135 marks on it, and which one goes on to the top of carburetor and which ones goes into carburetor? 135 inside and 120 on top?
Sorry for to long text. Thanks in advance. :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/Felony-14/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/sdddd.jpg) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Felony-14/media/Yamaha%20XZ550%20bobber/sdddd.jpg.html)
From the description you give it seems you probably have some air leaks. Also, I would be wary of using RTV silicone on the intake boots unless the container states it is "fuel proof".
Manuals for all the different models are here in ridersofvision .net
My 16R has the following:-
130 (Top of the carbs) .... these are called PILOT jets
122.5 (front) 127.5 (rear) .... these are called MAIN jets & are behind the 10mm bolt at side.
# 60 (bottom of carbs) .... these are under the slotted screw in the bottom of the carbs.
.
I got 135 and 120 jets. 120 are on top of the carburetors and 135 are main jets. Is that correct?
Slotted screws? Is that place like on the picture I posted? I can't get them out but carb cleaner and air goes on the other end.
Whats the perfect fuel level from the gasket down? The old and new gasket are different thiknes so I think that where the starting problem Is.
Yes there is something under the plug in the bottom of the carb. That is your idle or pilot fuel jet.
You need to remove and clean them. You may need to modify a screwdriver to do this... It needs to fit perfectly in the slot of the jet and also pass through the hole for the plug. Push firmly down on the screwdriver when you do this and DO NOT damage the slot in the soft brass jet or you will not get it out.
It might be a good idea to get a spare idle jet and find a screwdriver that fits the slot, then grind the blade if needed to fit the hole.
Thats the problem, I did modify the screwdriver but screwdriver place on jets were damage at the previous owner. :( But they are not jammed, liquid passes them.
You have to get the brass jets out. There will be dirt in the passages behind them and it will block things up later. You can not leave anything untouched in these carbs or they will not work right. And that is one of the reasons I did my carb swap.
This is a very sensitive issue, as some times the jet becomes 'locked' into the threads of the carburetor body. I have unsuccessfully tried to remove a jet in this place, only chipped off the slot for the screwdriver and part of the jet. The carb body is now useless as the old jet had been drilled out but the threads remain locked into the carb body. It is impossible to put a new jet into the hole until all the old jet parts are removed, and they are not coming out. This is why I also began making the change to the carburetors from a Yamaha YZF600R. Maybe within the next few months I will get the parts welded and hooked up. If I had it to do over again I would get a larger single carburetor, but the two carbs will probably give better performance.
So its not just mine carbretors. These things are complicated.
You HAVE to get to those emulsion tubes. Don't worry about marring the the tops of the tubes. Just get a Dremel and cut a slot on the top and twist them out with a good flathead screwdriver. A little penetrating oil helps. If the carbs are totally dry, get a small butane torch and heat the tops of the emulsion tubes. That does wonders. Once out, have at it with a can of Gumout. Stick the plastic tube down into the tube hole (and the smaller hole that leads to the emulsion tube hole) and marvel at all the shit that comes out of there. Wear goggles.
A clogged emulsion tube left me stranded once. Carb shut down and I couldn't ride up the Palisades Cliffs to roll down the Cliffs again to get home. Had to call a flatbed and listen to the driver expound profusely on his Harley, which as it turns out, he knew nothing about.
Good thing the ride home was only three miles.
--Steve
I got the emulsion tubes out days ago and it they were clean and fuel canals, sanded them a little bit with fine paper and now they get out with compresed air. Also soldered holes that I made to get them out(drill a hole and put screw inside). Now I re-adjusted the fuel level to 20-21 mm and changed the front spark plug. And try to start it and it started. It looks like the fuel level were not good because of different gasked thickness. Now it smokes a little bit probably because air-fuel mixture ain't good, but it is 10:26 pm here and I'm tirred gonna try that tomorow. Oh yeah and I turned the choke off and it was working normaly. So silocone on the out side of the boots did good on eliminating the air leak. :D There are one problem as I don' have coolant reservoir on it, and as soon as I started it gets some water out the small pipe, that didn't happen before, is it possible that I have some air in the system?
You need a coolant reservoir else you will overflow and then get air. Not good.
The water cooling system has an air release bolt by the thermo sensor in the pipe just above the front cylinder. You need to take that out, then top up till it's overflowing. On fresh coolant this may need to be done several times with a short ride in between - the trapped air is released by vibrations.
Note to all regarding carb jet installation: When putting the carb jets into the carb body do not over tighten the jets into the carb body. A gentle snug is all that they should have. Killer tight is unnecessary and very counterproductive. Remember the next person that will attempt to take that jet out is probably going to be you.
Started the bike, it starts without choke, if I turn the choke on just a little bit rpm goes up and wild. And first time i started just to touch the throtle it dies right away.
The front cylinder is going crazy, doesn't work some time then it does, it is like small puffs coming from the exhaust of front cyl. from time to time. And exaust isn't hot. The gaps from the spark plugs should be 0.6 to 0.7 mm?
Gotta call priest. The bike is haunted. Doesn't even start now. I got big bangs from tlhe exaust of rear cyl . The carbs got good level and clean 100%. Spark plugs have fuel on them and make sparks when outside and stiĺl doesn't start except big bang once in a while. ???
Check your battery charge. Vs' demand strong batterys. Below 11 volts it will crank but not fire the plugs.
It uses support car battery, so thats ruled out. Maybe the spark plugs are problem.
Check the car support battery voltage. Spark plugs are probably not the problem.