Most of you may not know/ remember me. I've been around since the late 90's on and off. and pretty much disappeared since the late 2000's when i got distracted building up a drag car. After 17 years of ownership, I'm finally throwing in the towel and giving up. I've been eyeballing later model Buells (09 XB12r to be exact) for the past couple years, and my significant lady told me "You already have bikes! No more until that one in the corner is done or gone!" I took a few days, thought it over and finally came to the only real conclusion I could.
Time to once and for all replace all the things wrong with the vision! I've had lots of ideas over the years of what I wanted to do with it, but finally decided I just need to get my stuff together and get this thing running and rideable. The big important ($$$) bits finally came in the other day, so i figure it's a good time to start a build thread. I like doing a thread simply because it keeps me honest and gives me a reason to stay on track.
I'll keep this first post updated with a running list of changes/updates, etc. So hopefully it'll help others who want to change things around. Once I get the bike running i'll be more than happy to post the ECU settings for fuel and spark in this post also. I need to start going to all my notes and lists i've made of what i've done to the bike and put it in one spot (here, hopefully).
CLICK HERE FOR HIGH RESOLUTION PHOTOS (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550)
IGNITION/ ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:
ECU: Microsquirt v3
Coils: GM LS2 truck coils-
Wires: MSD 8.8mm
Plug caps: MSD
Plugs: NGK BKR
Reg/Rectifier:
FUEL SYSTEM::
ECU: Microsquirt v3
Throttle bodies: 2001 Triumph 600tt 38mm
Injectors: 2x Precision flow 30397-1 LS7 type 39lb/hr injectors
Fuel Pump: Walbro 255lph inline pump
FPR: Aeromotive something (have to find the the box)
Gas tank: underside replaced with 18ga, sides modified, ΒΌ"npt outlet,
COOLING SYSTEM:
Thermostat: NTC W01331634599NTC 170* Thermostat
Radiator: HONDA TRX450R 04-09 ATV Radiator
Radiator fan: 8" Ebay special
Coolant return splitter block: Ebay dual 1/2"npt in, 1/2" npt out, with 5/8" hose barbs
Coolant hoses: 5/8" and 3/4" silicone hoses
Coolant tubes from thermostat to cylinders: removed, replaced with
EXHAUST:
So I've given myself until May to get this thing running again. Hell or high water, I will be riding this bike this summer. First and foremost i'm just getting it running and rideable. Overall, not really much to do- fab some brackets, run some wires, that's about it. I've spent the past 6 years rebuilding my drag car, and this is about 1/10th the size, so it shouldn't be too hard. Honestly the hardest parts i see right now are welding on the bottom of the gas tank (its completely cut out right now) and fabricating a new seat subframe. Those are maybe 1-2 days a piece if i have a clear weekend. It's too cold and late to go into the garage right now, so I'll just throw up some pictures here for now.
Bike in its current state (I took everything off so i could clearly see the frame)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-MzbWfwb/0/M/20160201_173104-M.jpg)
Mocking up tank positon and new tail. (from 2002-2003 Yamaha R1)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-vrD24mk/0/M/20160201_185514-M.jpg)
Microsquirt and the harness came in yesterday. I'll get a better picture later:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-pNLVfMQ/0/M/20160216_115135-M.jpg)
Throttle bodies (These actually will be the easiest to mount/ make a connection to the motor)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-tsngV5P/0/M/20160212_143221-M.jpg)
And various other bits I've accumulated. Starter relay, power relay, new R/R from modern honda, wire connectors, rearsets, steering damper, thermostat, bar end mirrors, etc.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-RjtHD3q/0/M/20160210_164106-M.jpg)
I spent a little time outside today, and with microsquirt finally coming in, i need to modify the wiring harness i made a few years back (OEM one is a mess), and run the new fuel injection and ignition wiring. That means first on my plate of things to do asap is remount the tail, since all of the electronics will be housed in there. I'm hoping i can pick up some 1" tubing this week and then next weekend weld up the new subframe.
Quick question though for anyone reading this. Can anyone tell me the compressed (coil bind) length of the 82 shock? I need to know how high the tire can possibly go, so i know how low i can mount the new seat. I dont have a spring compressor handy to disassemble the shock to measure, so i was hoping someone else might have a shock with spring removed handy? You'd be my hero for the day.
Do you have to install any sensors for the Microsquirt system? I have thought of fitting a fuel injection system but they are pretty complicated to make them operate efficiently. Throttle opening, air speed, air temp, cam position, Oxygen sensor in the exhaust, etc.
I look forward to this thread and your progress.
I measured an 82 shock with spring still on. From top to bottoming-out point was 67 cm. From bottom to top of shock cylinder was 207 cm. For a total minimum length of 274 cm from center of top pivot point to center of bottom pivot point. BDC
This seems to me to be a really worthwhile project, don't hesitate to let me know if I can help in anyway. BDC
Quote from: fret nut on February 17, 2016, 01:09:29 AM
Do you have to install any sensors for the Microsquirt system?
In regards to sensors, you only need 4 for fuel injection with this system: intake air temp, coolant temp, and manifold air pressure. The TPS is built into the throttle bodies im using. I'm using regular GM sensors for the coolant and air, and for the map sensor i'm using a small MAP sensor chip that the ECU manufacturer uses for the full-size versions (like the one i have on my car). However, most important is in regards to the ignition. You used to have to figure out a way to bolt on a 36 toothed trigger wheel to the crankshaft. Somewhat recently though, there was an ECU change that allows this compact version to do an off-set/dual ignition input. So now it simply can use the bike's stock ignition pickups to tell the ECU when both cylinders are at top dead center.
here's the link to the info for the dual spark setup: http://www.useasydocs.com/details/dualspark.htm (http://www.useasydocs.com/details/dualspark.htm)
Quote from: Re-Vision on February 17, 2016, 07:42:34 AMFor a total minimum length of 274 cm from center of top pivot point to center of bottom pivot point.
Thank you! That's exactly what i needed to know!
Blake, Thank You! Do well sir!
I had to run in the garage and measure the map sensor so i could find a box it will fit in, so i snapped a few photos:
Regular ole' GM air and coolant sensors. 3/8"npt is a pain, but their output is easy to setup, and they're cheap.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-FfH5BPk/0/M/20160217_143253-M.jpg)
And here's the new fuel/spark ecu along with the new R/R for size comparison.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-KJWpq4z/0/M/20160217_143332-M.jpg)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-mFhXMTB/0/M/20160217_143337-M.jpg)
Your regular ole' GM ignition coils (word is these trucks ones are the "most powerful" so why not use them?
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-7c3kdH4/0/M/20160217_143305-M.jpg)
And here is the manifold pressure sensor i need to put in a sealed box. quality ones are $60+. The sensor itself is $15, and is about 1% accurate (very good).
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/Yamaha-XZ550-Vision/i-Gn3dFpc/0/M/20160217_143454-M.jpg)
Very nice Blake... I've built and installed Megasquirts on a few cars and it's a great system... the Vision should be a perfect candidate... will be watching closely... best of luck,
Steve
Also watching with interest. I was running out of things to do on my Vision and have a huge surplus of cash. NOT
Oh, I forgot to mention.... Saturn coolant temp sensors are 1/8 inch pipe and the same resistance/temp curve as the big GM ones.. snag one at your local wreckers and the connector as well.. Steve
Quote from: fiat-doctor on February 19, 2016, 12:56:21 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention.... Saturn coolant temp sensors are 1/8 inch pipe and the same resistance/temp curve as the big GM ones.. snag one at your loca
Ohhh really? Thanks for the tip! I'm definitely going to have to find one of those. 3/8 npt is a bit too unwieldily for the bikes size.
More parts rolling in.
Here's my coolant splitter. dual 1/2" in, single 1/2" out. Measuring the engine and radiator, it seems the engine outlets are about 5/8" ID hose, and the radiator inlet is also 5/8" hose. I have a few 1/2"npt to 5/8" hose barb connectors coming also. If i can get that 1/8" npt coolant temp sensor, it should screw right in to this splitter at the plug you see.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-tPNRHR7/0/M/IMG_20160219_150353-M.jpg)
I also picked up a hydraulic clutch conversion. It's cheap chinese junk, but i should be able to fix it enough to work. There was a company that sold them for XS650's that look like he just resold them and doubled the price. I'll give it a go through and smooth things over. It'll be interesting to see how well it works.
Example of how it works: http://www.hughshandbuilt.com/2012/03/14/xs650-hydraulic-clutch-conversion-install-instructions/
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-dWk8zgN/0/M/20160219_144900-M.jpg)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-7xnWX6j/0/M/IMG_20160219_150452-M.jpg)
New throttle and bar end "lane splitter" style mirrors. I think i'm going to clamp the mirror on at the very end vs inside the bar itself. There's something else I possibly want to mount at the very end.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-hTbwZJ9/0/M/20160219_144908-M.jpg)
Also, does anyone need exhaust port crush gaskets? I think i have a little more than a lifetime supply now (100 to be exact)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-2WSR4Mw/0/M/IMG_20160219_150334-M.jpg)
Just did a quick couple things today. I ordered a couple universal weber carb arms so i can connect the two throttle bodies. The weber slot is ever so slightly not "long" enough. A few minutes with a small file and I got both fitted.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-5W4Fnc9/0/M/20160222_183441-M.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-WFzHMvD/0/M/20160222_140948-M.jpg)
Im not sure how the angle differences between the two arms is going to affect the front cylinder opening. Not sure how much i like it's current state. I'm trying to avoid having to grind off the other side of the throttle shaft on the rear throttle body, because its peened on and there is no bolt to hold it. In other words, its going to be a major pain in the butt to reattach the weber arm.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-m5hV4s8/0/M/20160222_193137-M.jpg)
Also I found a small project box i had and did most of the work to contain my MAP sensor inside of it. I'm about to order a couple standoffs to raise the sensor off the floor, and center the tube outlet, so i'm waiting to drill that hole until after it comes. The passthrough is a simple waterproof gland. I'll solder some 18ga wires to the sensor, pass those wires through, then put an actual connector on the outside of the box.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-cD8Pbsv/0/M/20160222_201507-M.jpg)
I really want to start on the wiring (since that's the biggest part of this whole project), but I need to have the seat somewhat mounted in order to properly and cleanly run the wires. I might temporarily rig the seat on until i can get some proper 7/8" tubing for the subframe.
Blake, those arms look simple enough that it should not be toomuch difficulty to make a 'new' one to fit at the correct angle. Or cut the arm off and have it welded on at the correct angle. It's only metal, after all. ;)
Quote from: Blake on February 22, 2016, 10:49:12 PM
Im not sure how the angle differences between the two arms is going to affect the front cylinder opening. Not sure how much i like it's current state. I'm trying to avoid having to grind off the other side of the throttle shaft on the rear throttle body, because its peened on and there is no bolt to hold it. In other words, its going to be a major pain in the butt to reattach the weber arm.
Could you bolt a piece of material on one arm to allow a new mounting point for a link arm? The new hole will follow the same arc. I might look a bit too fugly though
Hmm. You guys had me doing a search this morning for adjustable throttle arms and I came across this: http://www.dellorto.co.uk/page/85/?s
That disc (2nd down) seems like it would be ideal. When I get home later I'll have to measure and see if it would fit. I'd go ahead and order 2 of those (for a similar look), but looks like it would be almost $60 shipped over from the UK. Thanks for the idea! I might have to find some scrap metal and make a couple.... Plus I think I like the multi hole disc idea for fine tuning.
You may be hurting your Hp potential with the openings of the throttle bodies being so close together. The suction in one cyl could have an effect on the other cyl. Is there a reason you aren't going to mount them as the stock vertical mount carbs?
Blake, does the Microsquirt ECU replace the TCI box that is stock on the XZ? Or do they run in conjunction?
Quote from: fret nut on February 24, 2016, 01:45:10 AM
Blake, does the Microsquirt ECU replace the TCI box that is stock on the XZ? Or do they run in conjunction?
Yes, microsquirt replaces the TCI box. You can adjust the timing curves, spark duration, run higher power LS2 coils, etc. Remembering how many headaches I had with both the carbs and my TCI boxes (I think i'm on my third), really was the determining factor to just get rid of it all and put some modern technology into it.
Quote from: jefferson on February 23, 2016, 04:20:48 PM
You may be hurting your Hp potential with the openings of the throttle bodies being so close together. The suction in one cyl could have an effect on the other cyl. Is there a reason you aren't going to mount them as the stock vertical mount carbs?
As of right now they're just sitting there until I can get a better idea of their positioning. The 1/2" aluminum plate i ordered to make the flanges just arrived, but i also need to add some pipe above that to give myself enough space to drill a hole for the injectors. Also at this point i'm not 100% certain if i want to build an airbox (which i will actually have to put some thought into), or just run pod filters again. If I go pod filters, the throttle bodies will definitely need to be angled. In all honesty, my first idea was to have the two throttle bodies facing almost parallel the ground like a roundslide carb would be mounted. This would free up a ton of space above the engine for the fuel pump, filter, electronics, etc. to go. Who knows, it could actually still happen. We'll see how things go as the build progresses.
The best result would be with the pods insides an airbox that is open to the front and would allow cool air in. Probably have to block the area above and to the rear of the radiator to keep the intrusion of hot air down from that area.
New front wheel for a 1983 Yamaha venture 1200 showed up. It's 18x2.15 (identical to the rear). Right now theres a 120/90-18 bridgestone on it. The hub section is a bit too wide to adequately fit and allow me to mount discs, so this week I'm going to take some measurements and hopefully drop it off to get 1/4" to 3/8" taken off each side. Right now the face the disc mounts on is on the same plane as the fender mounts. The other option is If I can swap triple trees with something else with 35mm forks, but a wider center to center distance. I'd like to keep the vision forks if at all possible for this project rather than swapping over to a new inverted fork.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-btTxf7R/0/L/20160301_163841-L.jpg)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/February-2016/i-MJMp6s4/0/L/20160301_163930-L.jpg)
Also... Fuel injectors and the new rear tire showed up today. I need to modify the rear swingarm as the rear tire is a bit taller and wider. This front tire will get replaced when I take care of the fitment issue.
Also I finally completely cut off the entire bottom of the gas tank and cut out the fuel cap "bung" in order to make new and install a new fuel bung and cap. I'll try to snap some photos of that when I get home.
Most importantly, does anyone have a right side fork tube with the caliper bosses from an 1983/ non US model? If I'm going through the work, I'm going to run dual discs, and I'd much rather have the Vision forks than going with xs650 or Harley forks. Figured I'd check here first. If someone outside the US has one, I could probably get away with just the lower part and swap my internals to make shipping cheaper. Help please?
Blake
If you want 16R (australasian) lowers I can certainly help you out, but I think you will be disappointed. Non-US82 disks are about 10 1/2" both sides.
I can measure next time I'm over at the workshop if you want to be exact.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on March 02, 2016, 04:40:34 AM
If you want 16R (australasian) lowers I can certainly help you out, but I think you will be disappointed. Non-US82 disks are about 10 1/2" both sides.
I can measure next time I'm over at the workshop if you want to be exact.
I'm curious if the brake caliper mounts are as far away as the US 82's?. I reread your build thread last night to see everything you've been trying, and you could say i'm trying to do what you were with the R1 discs and calipers before you had to stop and use the originals. Where I live (Virginia), this bike will be registered as an antique, so there isn't even a safety inspection and I can basically do what I want. So far I've held off on buying front calipers in the off chance that I do just give up and buy a set of newer model sportbike forks on ebay (Which would be a whole other world of headaches trying to get the steering stem, wheels, rotors to fit.)
Thanks!
I've never seen US parts of course but my recall from reading this site is that the US82 lugs are further away, so if you want to go double disk you are going to need both sides, and either smaller disks or adapter plates like I fabbed up for the R1 disks. The adapters were not a huge big deal to make.
I was going to do a fork swap originally, but figured without the trailing axle, far too much work. I got gold inserts for the forks instead.
I did briefly contemplate machining a new pair of lowers because I do love the look of the R1 rotor and Brembos ...
Well, Looks like I'm going to convert over to newer style inverted forks for my front end now. Front end from a 2002 Suzuki Tl1000R. As it seems these 83 forks are rare in everywhere in the world but Australia and New Zealand, In the end it'll actually be cheaper for me to switch over to this new style front end. I'll post picture whenever it shows up. Hoping I can get cracking on the rear subframe and gas tank this weekend also.
Oh also, thanks to pinholenz, the distance on 83/Non-US fork lowers from the axle centerline to the bottom of the first caliper bolt mount hole is about 12cm. On the US/single disk fork lowers, I measured 13.5cm. At least now we have numerical differences.
Measure the length of the stem first - that will be the hardest thing to swap over if you need to. If it's long enough the All Balls site has a calculator to find the new bearings.
If not then I could have a rummage for some lowers for you - I'm fairly sure there's a spare set in my bins - and rotors also.
I know of a salvage place that has or had a complete 83 in his yard. His prices are over the top as far as I and several others are concerned. The place is Oz cycle in Ottawa, Ks. Sounds like you have the other setup on the way, but just in case this might help.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on March 04, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Measure the length of the stem first - that will be the hardest thing to swap over if you need to. If it's long enough the All Balls site has a calculator to find the new bearings.
If not then I could have a rummage for some lowers for you - I'm fairly sure there's a spare set in my bins - and rotors also.
Thankfully the front end I was able to snag has both the upper and lower triples attached so I can start doing measurements once it arrives to see if I can simply swap bearings. Worst case (Which i'm already assuming will happen), is i press out the stem from the TL1000, make a bushing for the lower, and then fit the Vision's stem into that. I've found a few 82 lowers on ebay in the US for about 20-30 bucks shipped, so i can always cut a lower apart to steal the stem (I'll probably just sacrifice mine since I won't be using it again.)
The axle should be easy enough to make work. It looks like these new sportbikes have 1" OD or larger axles. So a simple bushing in the axle clamps and the correct size axle for this wheel will work well enough. I guess I should start going through my parts bin and putting things up for sale to help fund this/ I'll never use them. Anyone need a one-off aluminum upper triple with clipons? I have a few more goodies too that might have to wait until I get the bike running. (carbs + race exhaust + k&n's that i tuned with an O2 sensor.)
Blake, good luck with the new front end. I hope you saw my post in SWAP SHOP re the 'set back' between the fork tubes and the steering stem.
There is another aspect to the dynamics of how the bike handles as trail will be different with forks that position the front axle differently. The original forks set the axle back a bit and the triple clamps and crown set the forks forward in order to control the trail. Basically the bike will handle differently with the new forks. If you are doing a completely different tank and radiator set up then this may well be a moot point. But you should measure the trail the new set up will provide, as there is a range of "good", and longer or shorter than that range usually causes handling issues. Please say you already understand this stuff and I will shut up.
Eagerly awaiting more on this thread.
No worries Mike :) I know some about rake and trail, but it's always good to talk it over with others. According to the road test, the vision has 26.3* rake and 114mm of trail. It seems some of the newer bikes are as follows:
05-06 sv650: 23.45*/96mm, 07-08 sv650 23.8*/98mm
some GSXRs are around 25-26* and 90-100mm of trail.
Just looking at how the vision's front end is situated, it makes me see that the neck is at a rather steep angle, which necessitates the setback axle to get that 114mm of trail. So somehow I'll need to find a way to not lose more than an inch of trail when the axle will be going directly under the forks. The front wheel overall diameter will be 2-3" taller with the new tire, so that will help a little bit. Perhaps a smaller fork-stem offset would even be a good thing? I am using a completely new radiator, and can setback the tank as far as needed, so that gives me a little more wiggle room for turning. I finally checked out the all-balls website and it seems they do have bearings for the swap conversion. I'll really have to wait until the front end arrives (ETA next friday) to get a much better grasp as the changes that will be needed. I'll be sure to take lots of measurements and pictures so we can get some solid numbers on the geometry differences.
When juggling several changes it sometimes helps to make an accurate drawing to show your eyes where all the parts fit. I think with your experience you will find a way to make it all happen and finish with a very nice result. This is an interesting thread we will all enjoy following. Maybe some of us will even get some inspiration again.
Well, the front end came in. And wow! It's almost a perfect fit!
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-RNsVzSr/0/L/20160308_163326-L.jpg)
Lots of space for the wheels!
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-V6hdFgz/0/M/20160308_162118-M.jpg)
Need to measure the turn angle. This is with the forks touching the frame. Not sure If i'll need much more? Doesn't look like much.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-HfBCRwL/0/L/20160308_160918-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-7nTTssd/0/M/20160308_160912-M.jpg)
Steering stem OVERALL height is pretty darn close. The issue it seems is the TLR's steering neck is shorter than the visions. The section that clamps down on the upper bearing is a bit into the neck of the vision. This will be the "hardest" part to figure out it seems.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-Tpw4T4g/0/L/20160308_160428-L.jpg) You can see some of the threads just down into the steering neck. I'll stare at it a bit tomorrow and try to figure out how to rectify the situation in the easiest and cheapest way. (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-qpQKNvV/0/L/20160308_160413-L.jpg)
The axle situation actually appears it'll be fairly simple. The stock method of this front end is to use the axle and it threads into bushings on each side that slides into the fork. I'll get some 4130 steel the diameter of the front wheel bearings and thread both sides into bushings that will fit into the forks. OR, I'll just see about getting this TLR axle turned down to the diameter I need.
Also you may have noticed a line on my tank. I was playing with a laser line level and taped out a line to cut the bottom of the tank. For all those interested, the tank top half is .030" thick (20ga). Very thin, but easily weldable with a tig. I'm going to reform the bottom edge of the tank and remove that rear "dip". The transition is about 15" long, starts about 1" wide at the front, then gradually slims down to 3/8" near the rear. I need to find some 20ga to do it, but think of it as a simple angle piece where it wont be a straight 90*, but will start around 135* and gradually slope back to 90* at the very end.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-Vrb3Hmb/0/L/20160308_144335-L.jpg)
That's all for now. I picked up some 16ga sheet for the underside (might as well make it stiff) and found some 3/4", 1", and 1/2" tube in my stash at a friends garage to use for the seat frame. We were chopping trees all this weekend at his place so I didn't get much time to start building that.
Funny, I have a chalk line on my tank in that exact same place. Are you gas welding this or TIG?
Those forks look awesome, and well worth any effort. Very Classified Moto.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on March 08, 2016, 06:56:13 PM
Funny, I have a chalk line on my tank in that exact same place. Are you gas welding this or TIG?
I have a tig welder I'll be using for this. I'll practice on some scrap, but I'm thinking ill have to keep it around 30 amps and probably use mig wire as a filler since its also .035" diameter.
Also I just got done talking with a friend who's done a few front end swaps. Considering how close this stem is to the proper length, the easiest thing to do will be to cut it in half in the middle, and add in some extra tubing to lengthen the stem maybe 1-2" for a proper fit. I'll tear this new front end apart tomorrow and start measuring. Hopefully get it sent out to the machine shop later this week.
Trimming the tank along that line should eliminate much of the trouble area that gets rusty and leaks. Nice opportunity to install a good petcock that can be rebuilt. Looking good.
I'll get fairly detailed about the fork swap in case anyone else feels like doing it in the future
The natural spot to lengthen the stem is right in the middle at a flat spot that's machined.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-zktpkv5/0/L/SAM_2116-L.jpg)
The new bearings came in and I installed the bottom one on the stem with two supplied "spacer" washers that give me a little more than 7mm of space from the bottom of the bearing to the lower triple tree (since the race is 10mm deep in the neck). Note: the vision's allballs replacement bearings have a 10mm high race, and these conversion bearings are 8mm high. so these measurements are probably going to be around 2mm off.
Anyway, with the oem bearing race on the bottom and top, this is how the top bearing sits:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-XMqX3jg/0/L/SAM_2134-L.jpg)
This is the top of the stem: (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-mwwrK66/0/L/SAM_2119-L.jpg)
So the bearing is currently sitting on the threaded section, when it needs to be moved down approx 20mm with these old bearing races.
Essentially where it sits now:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-BvLJ3RB/0/L/SAM_2137-L.jpg)
Where it needs to sit:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-cb738cp/0/L/SAM_2139-L.jpg)
Which simply means i need about 20mm or around 7/8" added to the stem. Easy peazy. My machinist friend said he could proabably start working on it next weekend, so i need to get the final dimensions drawn up for him and ship it out.
Also, in regards to the front wheel, i found some allballs bearings that have a 47mm OD (same as the xv1200) but have a 25mm ID, which is what the TLR uses. This saves me time and money on having a new fancy front axle built. This weekend I'll press in the new bearings and measure how big of spacers i need, and just have those made. Done and done.
I swapped the lower bearing race in and slid the top one on, and that gave me 5.5mm from the top of the bearing, to the start of the transition part of the stem. Using voodo magic and an eraser, the final number is 15.5mm to 16.0mm needs to be added to the length of the stem to fit properly!
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-M2m5jLG/0/L/20160311_170025-L.jpg)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-JJPNNMd/0/L/20160311_170035-L.jpg)
Tomorrow i'll be loading up the truck and taking all the parts that i need to modify to my parents place where I have most of my tools. I'll press in the new wheel bearings for the front and take measurements as to how big of spacers (both inside the hub, and outside) I will need. Hopefully i can get those made along with the modified triple tree.
All this makes me wonder if there is a listing of specs for fork crowns and trees. It would be really great to find something to fit the forks that offers more distance between the fork tubes and the steering stem. Most of the modern bikes seem to have a very short distance there.
Fret, the Vision's trailing axle allows the forks tubes to be further forward. If switching to other forks with a central axle, the fork tubes need to be pulled in closer to the steering column to keep the same geometry.
I'll just resign myself to having to make frame, tank, and probably steering stop modifications.
Quote from: fret nut on March 12, 2016, 05:07:59 PM
I'll just resign myself to having to make frame, tank, and probably steering stop modifications.
Yup, there's no doubt that the Cognito Moto, Classified Moto bikes look WAY better with USD forks, and worth the effort if the authorities will allow.
Bizzare that I can make a new tank out of old ziplock bags and papier mache - no worries, but use the forks off a modern sports bike and I'm in for a world of headache. That's life living in a semi communist state that hates motorcycles I suppose.
Just got a few update pictures from my friend who's doing the work on the triple tree.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-gP7JFPn/0/L/received_10208762815018909-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-KRBKbmZ/0/L/received_10208762855059910-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/March2016/i-sFNN6Zw/0/L/received_10208762814418894-L.jpg)
He stated from his measurements, it's 0.619" longer. Should be pretty much perfect. I'm working all weekend, but hopefully next Tues or Wednesday when I'm off I'll test fit then weld it up.
I am guessing you have a piece of tubing on the inside to support the new added bit in the middle. Very interesting. 8)
Quote from: fret nut on March 21, 2016, 11:55:50 PM
I am guessing you have a piece of tubing on the inside to support the new added bit in the middle. Very interesting. 8)
Correct. I was told its a "light" press fit, just in case the length is off when i test fit it, we can pull it apart and put in a different spacer. I haven't tig welded aluminum in almost a year, so i'm going to need to practice a bit before attacking this.
Good luck with that welding. I hadn't realized the stem is aluminum. I think all I have ever seen are steel.
Well, it took forever and a day, but I finally got the front end somewhat together. Started the search for a new job so this got put off for a bit. Anyway, I was able to weld up the stem, press on new bearings, a friend hooked me up with 6 piston tlr1000 calipers so i don't have to modify the mounts, and mounted some tires I had for another project. Not too sure about these tires, but they'll work now for clearance checks, since they're about as big as it'll ever be. I like the look, but I know they're going to ride like crap.
Still need to do: weld new steering stops, cut axle spacers, find a 320mm brake rotor that fits out bolt pattern (stock tlr1000 is 320mm.. so it would be easier to mount if i can stay that size). Oh, i need to make a new bearing spacer for between the wheel bearings. i cut it just a tad too short.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/April-2016/i-HPBtFKF/0/L/20160425_211654-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/April-2016/i-WFn5Pvw/0/L/20160425_211601-L.jpg)
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-Q3gNHZ5/0/L/20160509_115901-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-xpKbn3C/0/L/20160509_115733-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-C4QWhjR/0/L/20160509_120144-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-KDm9Pdw/0/L/20160509_115826-L.jpg) (https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-vXkFCCM/0/L/20160509_115828-L.jpg)
It's nice to see progress on your bike. I wish there was some progress on MY bike. (Hmmmmm, I could do something about that maybe)
Snapped a couple other pictures as I was cleaning up at dad's house today (I moved the bike over there since all my "big" tools (press, tire changer, welders, etc) are over there.
Brake calipers a friend donated:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-4BRKNmQ/0/L/20160510_131301-L.jpg)
Also this weekend I cut up the blanks for the new intake "boots"/ manifolds / whatever you want to call them.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-Nq2hMTc/0/L/20160510_131255-L.jpg)
And here is my test piece, and hopefully be my "master" example. The bolt holes are correct, the center part is traced out, but you can ignore the dimple locations. At this point, I'm going to try and make it a direct replacement for our rubber boots and just modify a set for my EFI conversion. So you can bolt this onto the engine, then with a silicone coupler, clamp the stock carbs or throttle bodies to these. The decision I'm stuck at is whether to drill the oval section straight into the block, and cut the connecting tube at an angle (I BELIEVE it's 20 degrees, but I need to quadruple check), or to cut the oval into the block at the 20 degree angle and have the connecting tubes straight. I'll have to do a lot more measuring, and be a lot more accurate to find out which is easier to produce. I'll probably try both and just sacrifice a couple blocks in the process. Whatever makes my life easier (what what lines up with the stock carbs easiest) is what i'll go with.
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-7tKCCN9/0/L/20160510_131251-L.jpg)
If I understand correctly, you are building up solid blocks of metal and then carving them to shape?
I would think it easier to make a 'pattern' part of some softer material and make a sand casting. I guess there are no "easy" answers, besides, who has their own foundry?
Quote from: fret nut on May 11, 2016, 01:05:05 AM
If I understand correctly, you are building up solid blocks of metal and then carving them to shape?
The blocks I have cut out are just the "base". I have tubing that is right around 36mm id. I think it's 1-1/4" sch 10 aluminum pipe, but I'll have to check. I'll cut the tubing into pieces at about 2" or so, and using my press, I'll press one side of it into an oval that will fit into or on to this base, and I'll weld them together. That was the simplest way i could think of to make the transition from the oval intake port to a circle for the carbs. Essentially I'm trying to reproduce the oem intake boot's function in aluminum.
Sorry, I forgot to take a picture of the tubing. I didn't get around to cutting or forming it yet since I got caught up in deciding what to do with the base plate section.
EDIT: Essentially something like this:
(https://stoddard.smugmug.com/XZ550/May-2016/i-JktvnnD/0/L/carb%20adapter%20example-L.jpg)
Like so many things, somebody that knows what they are doing make it look easy. You da Man!
Alright....bumping this so i can easily find it this weekend. Finally a new (normal schedule..aka no longer a cop) job! I sold my last (well..last active) project car today, and have been slowly stock-piling parts the past couple months to finish this vision this summer. The bike is parked at my parents house still. I'm heading there on Friday for the weekend to assess where everything stands.
list of things i can remember purchasing:
master cylinder from a late model Tv1000 (for the tl1000 calipers)
a big ole' 4'x8' sheet of 18 gauge steel (to finish up the gas tank
stainless-looking coolant overflow tank
new clutch perch/lever
clutch reducer (Whatever that moose racing effort-reducer thing is. i found a chinese knockoff. we'll see how good it is)
a lot of aluminum to attempt my intake manifold again.
A metric dial caliper (you wouldn't realize how hard it is to find a used one of these in the US(
Finally was able to obtain autocad / bought a computer that can handle it. For figuring out the aluinum carb boot conversion
some various wire connects, bungs etc.
I recently took the stator cover off my spare motor. I found a machine shop nearby that'll do small work. I'm going to have them weld up the stock stator/ignition wire passthroughs and machine it flat. I'm tired of the oil leaks. Wires will be passed through the back/near the top with quality wire-glands.
AND, I found my digital camera, so i can start snapping photos again. Much more time efficient than having to whip out the phone every time. ;D
Good to see you are back at it again. I look forward to a situational update.
Blake, I don't know if this really applies because your throttle bodies are more compact than carbs and it looks like you are mounting them low, but it can save a lot of rework to fit them and build linkage with the engine in the frame. Space is at a premium in the V with the frame tubes crowding the area. Best of luck. We're all watching your project with a lot of hope.