Thought I would give vintage racing a go this year...The club is called Vintage Road Racing Association (VRRA). Four events per year (June, July, August and September) in Ontario (Canada)
A rule change came about this season to allow 4 stroke, water cooled, bikes in Period 3 (up to 1982 model year). Previously it was air cooled 4 strokes. So in light of the rule change I figured it only fitting for a Vision to join in.
This past weekend was the first event. Definitely a steep learning curve but so much fun! Looking forward to the next three events and hopefully some track days.
Very cool! How many laps? How many riders in your field? I want more details!
Looks like you have some homemade rearsets going on there and a remote reservoir rear shock. Where did you borrow that from?
All locations have different length tracks and the number of laps is determined by track length. This past weekend was Shannonville Pro track and heat races were 8 laps...Final races were 10 laps.
My heat race was 3 laps then a corner incident when a rider made contact between my swing arm and exhaust...things ended ok. I exited track onto grass area...stayed up-right...came to a stop in a safe area...the other rider didn't stay up right but was able to pick himself and his bike up and we both rode our bikes (under their own power) back to the pits.
The rearsets are from a fzr600 and the shock is a fox twin clicker (GSXR '89).My original plan has been to focus on the suspension so the fox shock was rebuilt and new spring (appropriate rate) installed. The front forks were re-worked with new springs, seals, bushings and emulators. Accelerated Technologies performed the suspension work...very knowledgable group.
I have volunteered with the club for the past 4 years (registrar, pit out, starter) and they are a fantastic group. My goal is to run the vision competitively and have fun...I don't have any illusions of being the fastest...
It's been a fun build so far but like you folks know as a build moves forward more ideas come to light...looking forward to making some changes during the up coming winter.
Oh and 26 riders in the P3 Light group this past weekend...
Ouch! Looks like the opposing rider was trying to shove a rubber wedgie between your exhaust and the frame. You did well to stay upright with that amount of black scars. Is that a drip pan under the engine?
That is a good looking bike. How flexible are the class rules? Looks like an '83 front fork and brakes but it could be Euro '82? What exhaust is that?
Sorry to see some of your hard work was undone but glad you're OK. Twenty six riders is a decent sized field. Are practice sessions organized by type or open to all?
Although not on an XZ, I raced one season of WERA in the northeast US in the 80's so I'm having a bit of a vicarious nostalgia reading of your exploits. It's really great to see one racing especially now when interest in the bike seems to be in a bit of a slump. Are there any other Visions? What other makes are represented? Do me a favor and bring someone next time with a camera.
I like that you went after the suspension the way you did. I'd think that combined with the engine's attributes will allow you to be as competitive as you feel comfortable with and have fun. I'm jealous. :D
Practice sessions are organized by one self assessment of their abilities; slow, medium or fast.
No other Visions. In the P3 Light class the most used bike to convert to racing is the Kawasaki GPZ550. The following is a link to the club website gallery:
http://www.vrra.ca/?page_id=1512
The rules are not so much flexible in that a bike isn't scrutinized but reasonable in that components are allowed if available in the class period or the components haven't changed from what was available in the period. Thus the twin clicker fox shock (technology) came available in 1981...the front forks with twin discs were available on the vision in '82 (Europe)...
I believe the exhaust was/is a Wolf system. Some cutting and welding and it's back in business.
Yes, drip pan...I like to refer to it as a last minute oil containment system:) I was challenged to get the bike ready for the opening weekend so I used the pan as a last minute addition. Oil containment is a requirement (rule) obviously in case of engine failure. I plan on adding a chin fairing with the lower area sealed off as the oil containment system prior to the next race.
I used to spend a lot of time at Shannonville Track as it was only 1/2 hour from Wooler. I never took any of the Visions racing there but did take a Fast Course offered by Michell Mercier and rode an SV650 during that run. When BMWOA had their first National Rally outside of the U.S. they rented the track for a couple of days ,I rode my R1150rt on the track for that event.
At one time I met a fellow that was racing a Vision - I believe he was from Ottawa. He had a ten pack of different carbs in his Pit.
Have fun and win a few!
Cheers Kenny :)
QuoteHe had a ten pack of different carbs in his Pit.
For any other make of bike I'd think this to be hyperbole. Not so much when it comes to the Vision. :D
I'm not sure if I have enough carbs for a 10 pack...LOL...but did plan to have at least 2 spares that I had tried and I knew to be good to bolt on...
Some new photos with the oil containment...
Round two is in the books...made it through practice and race(s) without incident. The engine is working great, suspension needs some tweeking, rider....old, grey, and truly enjoying the experience...
I spent some time with the carbs and the engine works amazing. Pulls up to and through red line without any hesitation. Main jets are same as stock, low speed air jets are 97.5 and I completely removed the vacuum operated flap from the air box top. I'm going to keep opening up the air box with the goal of getting as much air/fuel as possible into the little beast.
I need to say a huge thank you for all that have shared their knowledge/experience in past posts and continue to help/encourage new owners.
On the grass pre-race...
Nicely done!
In 1970 I took delivery of a new Yamaha TR2 (350cc factory production racer) and it came with a red front fender and wide red stripe along the white tank and on the seat/oil tank, much like you have here. I painted it all orange after a while, but your 'livery' is very reminiscent of the factory paint, even down to the tuning fork decal. Again, very nicely done.
QuoteRound two is in the books...made it through practice and race(s) without incident. The engine is working great, suspension needs some tweeking, rider....old, grey, and truly enjoying the experience...
Can't ask for more than that. Sounds like you're having a blast. The chin fairing looks great - a stylish solution to the oil retention requirement.
Regarding removing the air box flapper, did you notice any difference good or bad?
Have you tried 'velocity stacks' as per Treedragon ?
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12289.msg111742#msg111742
Treedragon also talked about exhaust crankcase evacuation as a performance mod...
Iain
NZ
You do want to run the breather hoses off the cam covers to a catch can instead of the airbox. The rules may specify this, but the bike will run better at high rpm when you do this. It would also be a good idea to come up with another cam cover with the large spigot and replace the one with the small spigot. All for better breathing.
One of the best things you can do for the handling is to immobilize the removable frame rail. The small bolts allow lots of manufacturing tolerance between the large holes in the frame rail. I have posted on this before and a search may bring up some specifics. The bike will be a lot smoother after this also.
Have a lot of fun out there. These things are a blast to beat up on newer and bigger bikes.
Really liked this story courtesy of 'pinholzen'
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15554.msg143021#msg143021
Might give you some ideas.
Thanks for the improvement ideas...all definitely worth exploring.
The front valve cover has been replaced with another rear cover so they both have the larger breather hole.
I'll do a search for the immobilizing of removable frame rail.
Definitely going to read about the velocity stacks.
Fret Nut...you recognized the vintage yamaha race colours...I was going for the look of the 1978 TZ...
As for removing the flapper, it came about through experimenting with the flapper adjustment. I was able to richen the low speed to the point where there wasn't hesitation when accelerating with the flapper completely open, even when accelerating from idle. So I simply removed it all together. The engine seems to run great.
Pinholzen had brought to my attention the yellow XZ...very cool bike...I'm thinking about borrowing some ideas from that bike to implement this winter. The rear brake setup looks great...
Quote from: Dean on July 14, 2016, 10:07:19 PM
Thanks for the improvement ideas...all definitely worth exploring.
If you want ideas, I assembled a list of every mod I could find, and a few more besides
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=13508.msg122189#msg122189 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=13508.msg122189#msg122189)
Quote from: cvincer on July 14, 2016, 08:52:15 PM
Really liked this story courtesy of 'pinholzen'
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15554.msg143021#msg143021
Might give you some ideas.
That may be the best looking bike I have ever seen, simply amazing.
If come out ahead on a few other projects it gives me ideas about what can be done with my old vision.
QuoteReally liked this story courtesy of 'pinholzen'
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15554.msg143021#msg143021
Good stuff. I missed this post during my hiatus. I remember the bike and being intrigued with the rear brake work. I wonder if the Toyota master is from the clutch or brakes? I can see the master but not the slave cylinder as it's obscured by the muffler - any idea what's going on back there?
The bolts for the frame were purchased from Coast Fabrication and were the MIL spec. They have 12 point heads and washers incorporated into the head and are on pg 18 of the catalogue I have. I have the receipt somewhere, but right now can't come up with it. I am pretty sure they were 5/16 diameter and I matched up the grip length to the stock bolts. I then ran a tap through the stock nuts welded on the backside of the frame for the new thread size. One of the best mods I ever did to the bikes.
Great info thanks...link to the catalog below
http://www.coastfab.com/uploads/4/1/4/3/41432063/catalog_digitalversion2015.pdf
Thank you for the link, lots of good stuff there. Most is SAE but I did see some metrics.
Well round three is in the books...The Vintage Festival at Canadian Tire Motorsport Park...http://canadiantiremotorsportpark.com
I am still slow and still having a blast... :D
The following is a link to photos of the event. Look for the vision (107) in the Slow practice session.
http://www.coburnpix.com/Motorcycle-Racing/2016-VRRA-Vintage-Festival
Friday was great day and great weather, Saturday was crazy first fog until 1pm then at 2pm the rain started. Sunday was good again but the races were compressed to make up for Saturday. The organizers did a great job to make up for crap weather.
I just finished looking at the side car photos. This group was on the track Saturday when the clouds unleashed the moisture...some awesome photos.
http://www.coburnpix.com/Motorcycle-Racing/2016-VRRA-Vintage-Festival/VRRA-Practice-Sidecars/
It looks like a fun time, I hope no one got hurt.
Awesome pics! Thanks for sharing the link and your Vision looks good out there on the track BTW.
The season wrapped up in Calabogie Ontario and it was a blast.
http://www.calabogiemotorsports.com/
I ran into the rev limiter problem. It was intermittent at first then became more prevalent. I was scratching my head pondering but then remembered reading about the issue on this site. A simple snip of the wire and back in business. The sharing of info from you folks is awesome.
I have been reading with interest the FZR carb conversions and your success. Great work and awesome you guys have been sharing the knowledge. I have been experimenting with the original carbs and having success also.
When I get some time I'll do a write up (with pics) for my latest carb experiment that I ran at Calabogie. What I did was to drill out both main air orifice(s) and using a tap cut threads for installing a jet the same type as the main fuel jet / low speed air jet. Also involved was to solder the air tube from the little filter for the front carb.
In my previous tweaking (for other races) I had used a smaller air jet for the low speed circuit, which seem to solve the bog at 4500 rpm. When not under load and moving the throttle very slowly, so as to not engage the accelerator pump, I noticed the bog was now at 8500 rpm. I figure that by richening the low speed circuit the transition from low speed to main circuit has moved up in the rpm range. When on the track I didn't notice the bog but at around 8500 rpm I'm either off the throttle or coming onto WOT with the help of the accelerator pump.
Now, by adjusting the main air jet, the engine has almost no bog when transitioning from low speed circuit to main circuit and works awesome on track. I'm using the air box, without a flapper and I cut a hole into the front area of the air box. The engine pulls well into 10,500 to 11,000 range and puts a smile on my face every time I see the tack needle going towards the bottom of the dial. :)
With all of the above said...I am still old, slow and having a great time...can't wait till next season. 8)
Nice end of the season report, thanks! I'll definitely be looking forward to your carb experiment write-up too, sounds interesting.
Hey Folks,
2017...4 Race Events...3 crashes...bike engine is seized but what a blast.
I have the bike in the house until I get another engine ready, then back to the garage for a refresh.
Wahoo. Way to go!!
Another picture...
Sorry to hear of the crashes. It looks like one was a low side on the right - foot peg & brake lever damage. Speaking of the right foot peg area, that is a unique way to activate the stock pedal w/rear sets!
Is the Bud can for crankcase emissions? I think I saw the coolant catch bottle on the other side.
I'm seeing some new parts compared to your earlier pics most notably front rim and brakes. Is that a 17" rim? What was the donor bike? How does it handle?
In my last event the engine seized and she bucked me off. I was quite happy with the minimal amount of damage. In the two previous crashes the exhaust took a beating. As part of the latest make-over I made new mufflers. 1/4 inch aluminum and the securing allen head screws are positioned to contact the ground when on its side.
The stock bracket worked well to secure the SpecII pipes so I kept it and made some modifications to fit the FZR peges.
Yes the bud can is to outlet crankcase breather tubes.
The 17" wheel is from a "93 Seca II. As far as handling, I haven't put enough time on the bike to really tell if improvement. The front definitely sits lower but I have some adjustment available to the rear shock length. The reason for trying it was because I needed a new front tire and rather than replacing with another 18" I used a 17" that I have available for project I hope to have ready for next season.
I need to make a correction...The 17" front wheel in the photo is a early cbr600 wheel.
The twin piston brake caliper is from the Seca II
Whatever bike the tank is from sure looks like it fits pretty well. The disc on the front looks pretty sketchy as far as there is a lot of area that doesn't look like it's in contact with the pads. Are you in the mockup stage as far as the chain drive goes? I still see the 90 degree pinion on the motor.
What happened with the motor as far as just suddenly locked up or was it running hot or something?
Tank is a Seca II.
The chain drive is in the mock up stage.
The 90 degree pinion is not on the bike. The pinion cover has been modified so that it will cover the sprocket
Suddenly locked up...I wouldn't be surprised to find the rear connecting rod seized to the crank when it comes apart.
Was it running hot at the time?. Both of my spun rod bearings were when it was getting hot. No other problems except for those 2 incidents and it was always the rear cylinder that spun. I would really like to know why the problem always manifests itself in the rear cyl. rod bearing.
The engibe temp was 3/4 in the green but I did over rev the engine.
I was in a corner right behind another bike and rather than keep an even throttle I accelerated to close the gap waiting to up shift at the corner exit. The bike over reved trying to close the gap. Two corners after when I down shifted I felt the tire wanting to lock up.
When I slowed down to exit the track was when it locked up tight.
Was the lean angle extreme or moderate and was it a long sweeping turn? Oil starvation at the pickup was a thought but others have raced these bikes with no ill effect so maybe that is just a contributing factor.
Was this a high miles engine? To your knowledge was it ever run low on oil? Maybe the design is such that the rear rod is just a more vulnerable item. Coming from the filter, it looks like maybe the mains are given preference over the rods? And, of the two rods, the rear gets oil last. If pressure is low - high miles/wear at all journals, brief periods of starvation, etc. - maybe this is just the mode of failure on these engines.
Neither of my incidents was the engine in the red, but just in the upper regions of normal. Your overrev probably didn't help anything, but I don't think it was the cause of the problem. I also found that I went faster if I shifted earlier rather than revving it out. These things have a strong mid range and run out of steam in the upper ranges. My tachs always quit on me and I just shifted by sound. Yours may be different with the different exhaust, but that is what I found with mine.
I have found that shifting at 9-9.5k drops the engine into the early to mid part of the torque curve. It loves to operate there. It loves to climb through the torque curve. There seems to be more to be gained there than hanging on to red line and beyond. I often short shift in normal traffic.