Hello, Riders. Glad to see this board is still active and keeping the faith. I need your helps like never before, and the archives are just not cutting it.
Here in Potland, Oregon the summer cruising hours are burning away while I'm scratching my head and sweating my nuts in the shop, trying to bring my baby back to life.
So I had the side cover apart and overhauled it completely; Thermostat, bearing, oil seal, mechanical seal, and the black/white seal which hugs the impeller. I also replaced the snaprings because I overstretched the old ones using improper tooling.)
I paid a dude at a shop $20 to press the mechanical seal into the housing. He used the Yamabond #4 like instructed. It did appear to be pressed in fully, marvelous. The only uncertainty I have about THAT aspect of the project is the purpose and orientation of two notches found inside the black rubber cone of the mechanical seal. (Mine do not seem to twist apart, as suggested in an archived thread I read)
I couldn't seem to coax the final seal into the housing any further than it would let me. Somehow the spring which rides around the shaft on the inside of the seal got a little stressed out, and unfortunately is the only old part not still part of the project--I remember destroying the hell out of that seal, trying to get it out.
The bearing just slipped over top of that and it was difficult to tell if it was flush with the housing--or if it even needed to be.
With the slightest inward pressure on the plastic gear, each of the snap rings found their grooves exposed and fit into place. It all seemed like a snug fit.
But all in all I followed the shop manual and workbook, took the greatest time and care to clean surfaces and do a thorough proper job. Replaced every O-ring I found, finally installed the thing and let the Yamabond cure overnight.
So WHY'S MY SHIT STILL LEAKING? FFFFFFFFFFF!!
This is bad for me, you guys. I am late, late, LATE for a very important TEAPARTY!
I removed the gas tank and breather bolt and began pouring 50/50 mixture into the radiator. I reached for a b :o ng rip while the bubbles settled and when I turned back to the bike, she was pissing right out of that weep hole that started this whole problem in the first place!
I am at my wits end, and tired of time-wasting episodes, like the Brake Linkage Fiasco coupled with the Momentary Footpeg Bolt Tug-O-War........I have a propensity for achieving setbacks!
Any helpful thoughts about my leaking weep-hole would be appreciated. Or feel free to point and laugh. ;D
Mechanical things don't care how you feel or what you think, . . . . they just ARE. So, now that the seal is leaking there must be a simple reason. Somehow the coolant is escaping from the system, so I think either a part is incorrectly installed or there is a hole where it shouldn't be.
DO NOT PLUG THE WEEP HOLE! If you plug the weep hole the coolant will go into the oil in the crankcase, and quickly ruin your rod and crank bearings. :police:
Thanks Fret Nut!
Yep, I sure do know and believe all that you said to be true!
I was hoping one of the salty dogs would have a good estimation of where I went wrong. And I suppose I was stalling on having to yank it all off again, but simply can't imagine what to do differently.
:-X
As I seem to recall, the weephole channel runs out from the circumferential face to which the Yamabond is applied, which is the mating surface painted with a blue stripe around the seal. Perhaps the guy didn't use enough glue?
Is this some kind of anti drug psa?
Hahah, oh God, I hope not! :police:
I was hoping you would see that as it was meant. As for your leak, I have yet to do that repair but I can only advise that you have missed something and you will have to take it back apart to see what it is. And, of course you will have to get new seals. I know it sucks but it is what you will have to do.
I have replaced the water pump seal on my '83 twice in the last 32 years. Both times I did it with only the help of the Haynes manual. I was successful with no leaks both times. My advice is that the Haynes is adequate to guide you through the process with a high probability of success. Something is not assembled correctly. Redo the work very thoughtfully. IIRC, I used a large socket to drive the spring lip seal into place.
Well, I took it apart today. Seems the oil seal ( with spring) was not seated fully in its' spot.
Put it back together, fingers crossed for the morrow.
Did I miss something in the first post - what's up with all the broken bits and JB Weld repairs?
I forgot to mention that a landlord knocked my bike over a couple years ago, it cracked and dented the side cover around the clutch adjuster hole.
So now seemd like an appropriate opportunity to fix it.
Installed last of the new O-rings, Got her fired up on what little fuel remained and eagerly took her for a spin, put in $10 at 7/11 and after fueling I noticed a large fresh puddle beneath the bike. Gasoline! :o :-[
It only seems to drip while.the bike is running, coming out around the kickstand. I took care to not damage the petcock and only trimmed the bitter end of the smaller petcock.hose...... And so it's true that the knuckle bone IS connected to the monkey bone ! 🍖
I'm not sure where you have the carb overflow tube routed but I suppose that could be a possibility. If it is coming from the overflow that would indicate one (or both) of the inlet valves is stuck open. How did it run during your ride?
It progressively had trouble maintaining zpeeds of +50 when the gas was low but seemed to rip just fine on the trip back.
I feel like it must be something small.and easy that got knocked out of the way whilst fiddling to re-seat the tank. Will have a closer look after.work today.
Interesting--everything appears correctly attached and the leak did not re-appear within a 5-minute warm-up/loop around the building. A fellow here suggests perhaps because it was so hot last night, somehow moisture and humidity forced it to leak?? From where?? Well, he is not such a clueless fellow as myself, still his explaination does.not satisfy me.
Without leafing.my manuals again, someone care to explain.the optimal routing for carpb overflow? Back into the tank?
My continued thanks to anyone who cares to care...
The carb overflows go down by the back of the engine. It's not all that uncommon for the carb float valves to stick one day, and work the next after a bit of fuel has flowed through.
It occurs to me that the petcock was still set to PRIME during that Fuel Extrvaganza Event. Could that cause an overflow event during fueling? There no longer seems to be a leak, not even a drop of oil.
It seems my final/current concern is the sudden loss of brake indicator. It was working before/while I had to fiddle with the linkage for the the rear switch, no longer lights up for the foot OR hand brake (running lights, yes). What ties the two together?
Does your bike have an inline fuel filter installed? If not, install one at your earliest convenience. Your fuel leakage sounds like unfiltered trash in one or both of your carb float valves.
I don't believe there is any filter. I have been using Seafoam in the gas, because it sat so long with the coolant problem. It realy did the trick, too! It used to bog out with throttle but feels good now.
I just found this melted hose on the left side, melted against exhaust joint.
Good news is the brake light returned without even trying.
Ain't love grand?
There are two bulbs in the tail. It is possible that both brake light filaments are bad. Less likely but also possible is bad switches, both or wiring. Should not be the ground as it is common to the taillight.
Those two amber colored hoses (one melted) look to be the carb vent hoses. You want to correct that and ensure it hasn't sealed itself closed by the melting.
Yah she started acting a bit wonky today, losing power, feeling like it wanted to reach for a 5th gear. I was hoping it was because I added too strong a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas before I left work, but when I went to top off the gas, she barely took a gallon. I even flipped the petcock to RESERVE, in hopes it might draw pre-Marvel mixture but alas, the problem persists.
Thanks, Rikugun! She is melted pretty good, I will bet that you are right. I will slice that tube tonight to restore airflow, and replace the hoses this weekend when I've got time and dollars.
Dang, I sliced off the bad section of hose and rode 12 miles, but it still only has half-power. It can barely reach 50, and is not very happy about it.
but..smoke and pressure from both tailpipes suggests that both cyl's are firing....right?
I wonder what could be wrong...
See if both cylinders are hot. The exhaust is linked so both cylinders go into each pipe. Smoke and pressure means nothing
Took turns disconnecting spark plugs. Both cyl's definitely firing independently.
I will replace both plugs soon...I seem to remember feeling lazy last time, and only changed the easy one. ::) :-X
What are the symptoms of a YICS failure?
In the meanwhile, I'm going to tell myself that it's the MMO..., My bottles never seem to have a listed ratio, but now I'm reading that most dudes who use it in their bike only take one or two caps-ful....I actually poured in about 10 oz, so all you see from me right now is a BiiiiG goofy smile.
Well, that is still progress.
QuoteWhat are the symptoms of a YICS failure?
If it's still on the bike it's a symptom of failure! :)
(Sorry to all the YICS fan boys BTW) It's probably easier to remove it, plug the engine ports and see if things improve. Symptoms could vary but may include lean condition at various RPM's, loss of power, and running hot.
Quote
I'm going to tell myself that it's the MMO...dudes who use it in their bike only take one or two caps-full....I actually poured in about 10 oz,....
Well that certainly helps explain the engine smoke. ;)
Quote from: Rikugun on August 31, 2016, 07:52:36 AM
(Sorry to all the YICS fan boys BTW) It's probably easier to remove it, plug the engine ports and see if things improve. Symptoms could vary but may include lean condition at various RPM's, loss of power, and running hot.
I don't think there are ANY fan boys for a leaking YICS !!!
You are probably right - no fans of leaking YICS. :)
Well, my problems continue to multiply, as my battery failed within minutes of refilling with Premium.
I managed to get it started again by turning 180° and rolling back down the hill I was driving, pop-started in 2nd gear like a fkking BOSS. 8) I made it to the hardware store where I needed plastic tubing.
Power had been reduced to clicking-status, and would not come to life, would not take a jump from my Diehard portable OR the H.Element. That's right, I charged it from a running car and it still would only sing the CLICKLICK Song.
So in my rush to action, rather than simply test/charge/test the battery I own (Interstate AGM), I called Interstate up and had them pour me a new one....at like, 6:30pm on a Friday. ...so, they didn't even have time to seal and charge it before handing it off to me! She was talking about the need to offgas, so I left it open while I drove back to the shop. Popped it shut and charged it up. Came back later in the night, light was green so we absconded to the scene of the bike. The first button push she obly clicked and I thought I was done-for, but she came to life on the second try. The 2-mile ride to safety was as lifeless as it's been lately. Just weak, weak, weak.
I know I've got to test and probe. I've got my fingers crossed hoping it's the stator............I'll offer a free ride to anyone who comes up with the right guess! :-*
[[Well, I was only thinking about getting the bike moved. I am dealing with a plethora of mechanical/starter electrical problems on the motorcoach I live in, so freaked-out rash decisions are kind of par for the course in my life, lately.]]
I replaced the stator + R/R a few years ago. Fusebox seems to be the original, and R/R is in its' normal spot.
So...having just replaced the seals and W.P, would that send something else into shock? What about the oil pump?
Oh jeez, all I want to do is ride around in circles, and, I don't know, GET TO WORK, is that too much to ask?
Have you checked the flow of fuel from the Fuel Pump?
Nope!
Today I ruled out the stator, checkecked connections, even probed the side-stand relay.
I swapped out R/R for an older one I had tucked away,....the lack of power persists!
Have you thought about following up Fret Net's very sensible suggestion?
Also, I'd be checking the advance if you have access to a timing light. The TCI is not adjustable, but have been known on occasions to not advance properly even though sparking fine at idle.
I haven't inspected the carburetion situation just yet, but it seems the last place to go.
I was firstly concerned with why my battery failed to hold its' charge. But if the SF and MMO did their jobs, they probably knocked loose some crud and make adjustment necessary. It has always been a rich-running bike, and after chit-chatting with another buddy of mine, I think she may be flooding with excess fuel, causing sluggish, wound-out behaviour.
OK, I'll admit it: I'm scared to touch it. I can't help it--I just have always been shy about trying new things, but I've messed with damn near everything else, and my hands are already dirty.... I'm just scared I'll do it wrong, and she'll never start up again! :-[ ::) :o
Today I took off the tank and airbox, replaced spark plugs and the melted overflow hoses.
I used a can of solvent to clean up the throttle body. I happened to have it running while spraying it down, (using the cleaner as fuel) when I noticed the motor responding to the mist when I would spray near the front carb.
So........an air leak?
And because a lot is never enough, I then took to adjusting idle speed before toying with the carb-sync rod. Then, I took it for a ride and fiddled with them a bunch more while stop-starting.
....it was tough to tell if there was much or any improvement.... I found that sending the sync-rod too far rearward, the engine speed would begin to raise. I a no longer certain where the adjuster was supposed to sit.......the whole situation is just LOL-worthy now.
Please tell me I don't have to order a rebuild kittt....
It depends on whether the "fuel" mist was only going into the open carb or if it was being sucked into some other entrance to the intake flow. Mist being sucked in near the butterfly shaft seals will cause the RPM to rise.
The idea is to keep the 'fuel' away from the carb intake, and only allow it to enter via leaks in the intake tract (cracked carb boots, leaking butterfly shaft seals, or other leaks).
I was working on it from below...the mist was definitely getting in through the bottom, rather than the open top. It did not seem to happen while spraying around the rear chamber.
One other concerning detail I noticed when I replaced the small vacuum hose that comes out at the front of the airbox and connects to the top of the front cylinder-- that tiny hose had a gross, off-white foamy fluid in it, with more evidence of the gunk inside the motor, there.
Water mixing with oil
Ah, well I hope to have solved that problem with the original repair.
Best way to clean, shy of dismantling? (Read: what sould I squirt in there?) :o
;D $4 Manometer from surplus shop supplies!
Progress for today:
Seems my manometer hose was too big for the tiny intake nipples, so I rebuilt it after going out for some smaller gauge.
I removed YICS module and surely enough, it failed the blow-test. I capped off the ports. Seems kind of strange to not have it.....perhaps I'll bolt it back on for posterity's sake. :angel:
I also replaced a short hose that connects to front intake boot coming down from fuel pump? Not sure if this carries fuel or vacuum, or even if the hose I had to use is fuel-safe. To be sure, I bought a foot of proper fuel line to have on hand just in case... I have now upgraded almost all of my hoses but should probably do the big ones too....what are those on the top of cyl? Coolant? Exhaust? IDGAF, I'm going to change them out! Soonly!
It would appear that I was successful in syncing the carbs inasmuch as one could hope, using this MacGuyver technique. I definitely sucked in enough ATF that I had to refil my tube a couple times.......I can only imagine that the professional devices have a checkvalve or something to prevent that from happening?? All I know is that even at the point where the choppy waves in each tube seemed to rise equally, the fluid in both tubes still made its way the way to the bike........like, damn, that's some good vacuum!
So after fiddling with that I took her out and noticed some of the power had returned.
So naturally, I went back and HADDD to start messing with something different. Why, the pilot jets of course!
.......and so, as suddenly as the boner had appeared--it VANISHED!
That's right, I started turning in on the front carb, seemed like 4 or 5 half-turns before it bottomed out. Then I started backing out, looking for that halfway point, which I thought I may have found. Then realized the difficult angle of the rear jet, which I remember reading here about some of your long, thin, curved flatheads. Well, none of the ones I had on hand seemed to fit the bill...I was only able to get about 1 turn-in on it but the angle is just too tough, can't get it to do much more ATM, didn't want to bitch up the slotted head. I'm just glad the previous owner already yanked out the pilot plugs so I didn't have to!
So, my power is reduced again, though not as badly as it seemed before the adjustments. But getting up to 50mph isn't easy, and it has the initial burst I need at clutch release, but bogs out in the next instant. I hope I am nearing the end of the tinkering, so I can put away this scowl and trust my ass getting from Point A to B.
Finally, after all of this and that, I was ready to ride when I found my carb overflow drain leaking again. I moved the bike back to flat ground + centerstand. Disconnected overflow tube and confirmed it was coming from the rear. I twisted back and forth with what little adjustment play was available on that adjuster (seriously not much)............and miraculously the dripping went away before I had to reach for the deadblow hammer. >:( >:(
Well, I think that was the most of accomplishment for the day. I can't thank the board collective enough for the wealth of knowledge contained here. Thanks for the treasure trove, fellas.
Welllllll, I started smelling coolant after my last 2 rides. Sure enough, the weephole has now left a large puddle under the bike.
I can't. Believe it. :-X
Well it's true that problems left unattended rarely resolve themselves...
Anybody have some good advise for cleaning an engine suffering from coolant mixed into the oil?
Oh, the humanity!
Coolant in the oil is a very dangerous condition that can take out the plane bearings (rods and mains) if left unresolved. Start by draining everything, then repairing the water pump seals.
Fortunately, I know they were not mixing for long, because I just changed the oil last week and the old shit was fine.
However, I had been cranking on it quite a bit to get her running after sitting up a while. Low battery, etc, etc. So then the starter started getting hung up progressively worse as the week wore on. I was using an old rusty kickstand to whack the motor and get her to spin, but eventually even that stopped working and had me stranded at a gas station until the thought of a pop-start occurred to me, and I was able to get her home.
--Oddly enough, while letting the bike cool off there, a passerby actually recognized the bike as a Vision and struck up a conversation and I was impressed. I took his number as a possibly interested buyer......
So today I prepared to yank the starter and got that nasty surprise in my freshly wiped catch basin. Totally pissed, I clamped the motor to a portable jumpbox and was surprised to see it spark-n-spin. So naturally I cracked it open, cleaned the black shit out and greased it up with some fresh red stuff. When I clamped it up again, it somehow sounded worse than before! :-X
Well, that is the extent of my progress at the moment. Looks like I'll be taking the bus for a while. :-[
To start, as fret not said, you may have to replace the water pump seal. Is there coolant coming from the weep hole in the right side case? Second, you have to replace the starter seal. The black gunk in the starter is engine oil. There is an excellent how to in the resources section. You need to decide if you are a motorcycle rider or a bus rider.
Yes, as I noted above in January, my newly replaced seal started leaking after only a few months after my overhaul, but sharing our car with my lady was easier back then, so I didn't need to ride it much.
I also have a 98 Saturn sitting in my garage halfway through an engine rebuild, and there has never been a less-convenient time for the bike to be out of comission.
Well, I'm not too picky on how I get where I'm going....I just want to be able to get back!
Disassembled the right side crank case and got into the waterpump deal.
I cleaned up all the surfaces really well, applied YamBond#4 to my new seal and drove it in with a large socket. I do believe it to be firmly seated because I whacked it pretty good several times and I can see the slight impression of a ringed divot around the lip.
Replaced the porcelain/rubber seal on the impeller.
Installed the oil seal and the bearing on top of it.
Nevertheless I am once again I am having trouble getting the impeller shaft to expose the second groove so I can clip it behind the bearing.
I'm sort of uncertain if the oil seal should be seated closer to the mechanical seal or closer to the bearing.......there seems to be some extra space inside there, or perhaps I simply haven't got the mechanical seal seated fully. I just need about a millimeter!
Dammit, this shit was supposed to slap right back together! :'(
I tried posting some photos, but my phone takes 'em too big for this site to handle without resizing, so that is a P.I.T.A.
I took a closer look at the cross sectional diagrams in my Workbook, which is more detailed than the Haynes instructio Everything looks great, I can see where the gaps are supposed to be. I can see that the bearing is supposed to protrude slightly from the casing....... Everything appears to be seated and situated as it should be, and yet I still need about 1 or 2 mm of exposure on that impeller shaft to get the clip groove to appear.
The impeller head is developing a small crack and I'm afraid I'll break something if I tap any harder! HELP! SUMBUDY CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! :police: :'(
Um, I looked at an old case I have and the bearing does not protrude from the case. Sounds like you need to have a closer look.
I'm not sure I'd describe the mechanical seal replacement as something that "was supposed to slap right back together!" There is a certain level of care and precision that is required with some of the delicate parts. You described deformation of the oil seal and a crack in the impeller which concerns me. I'm questioning whether this repair will last or work at all without some new parts.
Did you replace the bearing and if so does it match the old one? For that matter, does the oil seal match the old one? I think I see (in the manual) where the bearing is shown to stick out a bit. The drawing may not be 100% accurate. If Walt's example shows a flush installation and yours protrudes a bit I'd question if the bearing is correct or installed correctly.
It's difficult to really help without pictures. Even if you are unable to upload any, did you take any of the initial tear-down you could compare with the rebuild?
Edit: Regarding your question about space between the seals... I don't have the parts in my hand to examine but I think the bearing seats on a ledge and the oil seal installs right up to the bearing. The mechanical water seal may have a lip that it should be press fit to. Some space should be left between the seals and neither seal should obstruct the bypass hole.
Okay, I looked again and the bearing does protrude about a mms. I got some pics and will try to attach. It is attached but upside down
The one thing I can think of that might help is that bearing may be proprietary to Yamaha. I don't know if you got the bearing from Yamaha or a bearing house. If it was the latter then the numbers can match up, but there can be dimensional differences that will preclude it working. I ran into this working on a crank and it was the width that was different which is what your problem is.
Thanks guys.
This is the third time I've poked around inside here with these parts, so I am moderately familiar. I bought all new parts including bearing last time. This time I replaced everything except the bearing. Everything was identical except for proprietaty number stampings. Based on your verifications, my conceptualization about placement is correct, and it should be good as gold.
Thanks for the update and pictures Walt and Spaceman. I do hate when the manual doesn't reflect reality!
This is perplexing for sure. Although you've stated all replaced parts were identical, I have to question that simply because things aren't fitting properly. If it's not that, then assembly of the parts isn't quite right. Admittedly, I'm biased to an Occam's razor kind of simple over complex resolution. :)
Jefferson brings up a good point about the bearing. Did you measure the new and old bearing or did they just look the same? I noticed some part numbers have changed over time and fit newer models. Is it possible some part (either through oversight or manufacturing blunder) has been altered? This applies to the mechanical seal as well which has a superseded number.
I think the mechanical seal is in a couple of parts? Does the fit of the slipper ring/rubber seal fit the back of the impeller the same? Does it protrude further than the original? What about the part that presses into the side cover - does that have a spring in it? Does it coil bind when compressed not allowing the shaft in sufficiently far to reveal the circlip groove?
You mentioned having this cover off three times. When did the circlip groove issue arise and what was done prior to that? Let me stress I'm not asking annoyingly simplistic questions to annoy but it seems like it may be something simple. Do you have a friend who is also mechanically minded? A fresh pair of eyes can sometimes make all the difference. Let us know what you find.
I neeeeeeeed the help and eyes. The simple questions aren't a problem, the situation just doesn't make any sense.
All my parts were identical, and the bearing should still fit because it was a new replacement last time and it went together last time and fit/worked at the time of disassembly.
Impeller seal sits flat and seated properly. It is new and identical. Like I mentioned, I can see a crack forming in the plastic head but it doesn't appear damaged.
I bought an extra oil seal because the water seal did NOT mention it would be included with the kit in eBay description, but it was so now I have two. Both seals have the same dimensions with slight variation on the casting.
The mechanical seal looked like all the others I have had. It had a blue stripe around it, the purpose of which I am uncertain. Outside a manufacture defect in the item height, the only other idea i have is that it deformed the center slightly when I used a socket to install......and yet, I have my doubt about this also.
Ffffffffff.....
I attempted re-assembly without the impeller seal, and the shaft poked through to the precise height needed.
I had a closer look at the cracked head and while it doesn't necessarily look damning, it is obviously not a favorable condition. I chucked it up in the drill and my quick test on lateral runout yeilded inconclusive results.
Well, I wouldn't have been whacking on it if it hadn't seemed necessary! :o
Cracked impeller.......can't tell if it's got a wobble or not but I am stymied beyond belief so I'm going to order a new one and hope for the best. They're going for $10-15 on Ebay.
All my impellers are cracked in the same way - with no ill effects so far.
When the impeller seal is in it should be dead flush with the bottom of the impeller.
If you don't have the special tool and a hydraulic press, you can use a couple of washers, a socket as a spacer and a thin bolt to wind it in - similar to the process for the swing arm bearings.
Give both ceramic surfaces a clean with some solvent if you got any grease or grit on them, then some lube with a little coolant. Once in position you have to push quite seriously hard on the impeller against the force of the spring to make it come through enough to get the clip on. It's the spring that forces the two ceramic surfaces together to form the seal.
The blue stuff is built-in sealing compound.
Yes, I thought and hoped the blue stuff was a sealant...i just find it odd that the book doesn't mention it, and many stock photos of the part don't show it.
However, For the sake of being being thorough I would like to confirm that the blue surface and (perhaps the adjoining lip?) is where the Yamabond #4 should be applied? I wasn't able to observe the last guy as he did it, but super bummed that the seal didn't hold. Maybe shoulda wiped it with acetone. Maybe he was stingy with the glue, eh? :o
Maybe I'll scrap the whole thing and source one that's still put together, because at a certain point it ain't worth the heartache, y'know?
Ok, so I found a complete one on eBay for $30 bucks, and it's in the same state as me, so I should see it within the week!
Anyone taking bets on whether or not the seals are already blown? :-X ::)
Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
For Space's sake I hope it's a go. The take away for me thus far is learning the impellers apparently develop cracks.
Quote from: Walt_M. on November 14, 2017, 04:24:56 AM
Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
I tend to vascillate between mindsets, but generally think of myself as an optimist with bad luck.
"The Life and Plight of a DIY Mechanic."
I have been loath to share my progress, and here is why.
It seems that my bike develops new problems whenever she spends any length of time sitting, awaiting repairs.
So I managed to Frankenstein my new sidecover after cleaning up all the Yamaslop the last guy got everywhere. I learned that the thermostat housing must be slightly different between the 82 and 83 models, because the old one didn't quite fit on the new one. I managed to finally round out the one of the phillip's heads on the thermy housing trying to open it back up, ended up having to grind the head off with a Dremel cutting wheel. Long story short, I got it all cleaned up and installed, cured.
At last, I filled the radiator.
THENNN I went to the oil side, and used a small squirt bottle to install about 1.5 pints of kerosene, forwith to flush that abhorrent chocolate-y mess from the internals. It was at this point that NEW PROBLEM #1 presented itself.
NEW PROBLEM #1 is a seemingly low-charge condition on the battery, despite the fact that I had left it clamped up to the charger overnight. Oddly enough, before starting to work I had noticed the charger lights flashing yellow to indicate a terminal reversal although they were NOT reversed and they HAD clicked on appropriately when initially connected. Nevertheless, I quickly swapped it out with my charged spare and it did the same thing. .........LONG STORY SHORT, she won't turn over with any kind of speed, even when directly jumped with a running car.
I have experienced this condition before, but cannot remember whether it was fixed by R/R or by new stator. My first bet is on the stator being cooked by the coolant mixture. ORRR perhaps I was cooking it right then in there, with no oil and just a bottle of flammable solvent! :laugh: But when you're a guy like me with a box full of broken volt meters, all bets are off. The fuses are all intact, so whatchya, whatchya, whatchya want? :laugh: :o 8)
NEW PROBLEM #2 had been lingering in the recesses of my mind since this affair started, but I have been afraid to say its' name for fear of manifestation. HEAD GASKET. I prefer to study only one demonic confrontation at a time and after 5+ years of ownership I'm still unfamiliar with what to expect inside one of these motors, but on automobiles I have torn two 4-cyl engines apart down to their H.G.'s, and it is never a pretty sight. Do these V-twins operate in a similar fashion? Once I decided the battery situation was a bust, I drained the oil/kero/coolant mixture, but I'll be DAMNED if it didn't seem like new fresh coolant was trickling out as part of the mixture. Only a second inspection will inform me later, but...................
..........if an engine teardown is in my emminently forseeable future, I will sell the HELL out of this bike on Craigslist for $500 and spend the rest of my life crying about how I lost my first girlfriend.
THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT. :-X
Do you know for sure that your starter motor is not full of oil? Have you put 12v directly on the starter motor power wire attachment lug? Do you have a Haynes manual?
Thank you QBS.
Yes, I have the Haynes Guide ans also a workshop manual.
I forgot to mention how I pulled the nose cone off the starter to clean and lube, spent some time futzing with it to go back together straight. Then at some point during troubleshoot, seemed to have momentarily shorted the motor to itself via aligator clips and a cordless drill battery with nails e-taped to the contacts.
So once THAT THING stopped responding, I DID manage to dig out an OLD, old starter labeled LEAKY by a previous mechanic.
Why do you ask? :police:
Today I yanked the drain plug and was pleased that only a small amount of dribbled out, which allays my fear on the head gasket.
Nice call on the oily starter, QBS. Thinking back on my ancient history of V-probs, this makes perfect sense. I reckon I'll order up a rebuild kit from eBay for $24.......unless one of y'all has one to get rid of. ;)
Before starter motor reassembly make certain that a spring lip design oil seal is installed. A good independent automotive alternator/generator repair shop may be able to install new brushes on your old brush plate. That's really all you need. I've used such shops twice on my '83. Make certain that your planetary gears are properly aligned.
Spring lip seal, you mean something similar to the one inside the W.P.?
Well, is what's included here going to be sufficient?
https://m.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-REPAIR-KIT-YAMAHA-XZ550R-VISION-1982-1983-414-54048-RBK-38-YS-11/140669965705?hash=item20c0955589:g:lvAAAOSwVNxaD6TC (https://m.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-REPAIR-KIT-YAMAHA-XZ550R-VISION-1982-1983-414-54048-RBK-38-YS-11/140669965705?hash=item20c0955589:g:lvAAAOSwVNxaD6TC)
Can't really say regarding the seal that's included because can't tell from the picture. If the oil seal in this kit is an exact replacement for the oil seal installed by the factory, then it is probably not a spring lip design. Suggest you research this forum for references about starter motor seals and, single and or double spring lip design seals. Aside from the seal design uncertainty, the kit appears to be ok. All you really need are new brushes on your old brush plate and a spring lip seal.
Yes, look it up on-line and you will find a picture of a spring lip seal. It's most likely that the one in the kit is ok... looks like the same one I used.
It's easy to slightly roll back the inner lip of the seal with a finger and you will see it if it's there. Just look on-line for a picture and you will see what you are looking for.
Yes, right. And now I'm wondering where I can find a local upgraded part, because I am SO TIRED of fixing problems in my life that I already fixed once or twice. :-[
the seal in the kit may well be a spring lip type.... if it's not then any bearing supply house or probably a NAPA auto parts store can get you one that is. You can find the dimensions of the seal either on this site (have seen it before but can't remember where) or off the new seal or the old seal... it's written like 10x18x7 (those are random numbers!) the last dimension is the width and you can use one that is SLIGHTLY wider than stock but the first two dimensions must be exact. Its really pretty simple