Been a while since I've posted here...hope everyone is fine and healthy...
My vision has been down for a few years because a bad water pump and seal...
Coolant in the oil, etc...
While I'm working on it now, I decided to do the valve shims.
I'll be checking clearances tomorrow, but if I need any shims, does anyone know
of availability?
I also read on this forum to go by the Haynes manual for clearances, which I do have.
Thanks in advance...
The valve shims are the same as BMW 1000cc K-bikes from the flying brick era, 1986 to 1994 and list for half of the price of the Yamaha ones. There is also an aftermarket source that you can search for. When I needed some I went to my friendly BMW dealer and bought them.
Thanks Kevin... I'll check it out once I know what I need...
Well, I took off the front head thinking it was a blown head gasket before I found the bad water pump seal and impeller.
The gasket was fine... but the valve seats didn't look good, so I lapped them all and put new valve seals.
I'm thinking the rear valves are probably in need of attention also, and maybe the head gasket is needed there.
But, is it really true the engine has to be removed to remove the rear head?
Maybe I should leave it alone....
I would do a leak down test to see if they really need attention before pulling the engine and removing the head.
Quote from: musicweb on February 09, 2022, 07:34:02 PM
Been a while since I've posted here...hope everyone is fine and healthy...
My vision has been down for a few years because a bad water pump and seal...
Coolant in the oil, etc...
While I'm working on it now, I decided to do the valve shims.
I'll be checking clearances tomorrow, but if I need any shims, does anyone know
of availability?
I also read on this forum to go by the Haynes manual for clearances, which I do have.
Thanks in advance...
Shims are available from Yamaha, wemoto many other places
Yes, you'll need to drop the engine to remove rear head, but it's not as hard as you'd think. Use 2 ratchet tie downs to lower it
If I recall correctly there are some Toyota shims that fit. Make sure you get the correct diameter, as Toyota has other diameters for some vehicles.
Thanks for the inputs...
I'll be doing the leakdown test sometime today.
If all good, I'll put the front back together and hopefully get the timing right.
Is there anything special to watch for when putting the chain back on, or
just follow the manual?
Update:
No shims needed on front valves... all within specs.
For the water pump, I ended up using a friends large drill press
to push in the mechanical seal. Worked like a charm!
A 1" craftsman socket was used as a tool....
Kawasaki Z1 shims are the same size if memory serves. Some shops will trade you for the size you need. It's been a while and not sure if they still do.
ooops... I guess I'm supposed to run the bike for a few minutes before
doing the leakdown test...
So I'll do that after it's running...
When I went the local Yamaha dealer for shims they barely knew what I was talking about until an old guy dug the box out of the back room. They didn't have my size and since the wanted twice what the BMW shims cost I went there them. Since I have bought several BMWs from that shop they are friends of mine.
I also read that the Ford Taurus SHO has the same shims and even a wider range of sizes in 0.025mm increments. It is a Yamaha designed motor so...
Quote from: musicweb on February 11, 2022, 06:33:12 AM
Is there anything special to watch for when putting the chain back on, or
just follow the manual?
Always use the punchmark on the cam inboard of the cam sprocket. If you use the punchmark on the sprocket, it's easy to misalign by a tooth.
One tooth out is enough to strike a valve with the piston.
Hehe... I think that has happened....
I used the marks on the sprockets and now if I go about half a CCW turn on the crank, it locks up...
So where should the rear cyl be when the front cyl is at TDC? I may have screwed this up... maybe not.
When I line up the flywheel at T line for the front cyl, the intake valves are closed on the rear cyl. Is this correct?
Or do I need to do another crank revolution?
Found this from Prophet, so I guess my timing is ok.
Going to start to put my vision back together today, and wondering if I should pull the valve cover off the rear and check clearances and timing.
Carbs have been soaked and rebuilt, even with new shaft seals...
Crankcase has been sorta washed out, and I'll run it for a bit, then do an oil change again.
New water pump seals and good used impeller and drive gear. Old impeller was cracked and drive gear had some chipped teeth.
Radiator looks clean, and I have a good thermostat, tested in hot water.
Any recommendations of other things to check?
So I pulled the rear valve cover off (not much room there to remove it) and intake clearances
were fine but the exhaust was .10mm and .23mm, so they need attention.
Also a lot of the yellow gook around because of the coolant in the oil.
Breather hole was almost plugged up.
So I'm thinking I should drop the engine and do the rear valves, head gasket, cleanup, etc....
Prophet says to use 2 ratchet straps to lower the engine, and I have those from when
I transported my bike down to VA.
I would imagine the exhaust has to be disconnected.
Any input as far as dropping the engine would be helpful....
Just a thought regarding the coolant in the oil; sometimes when this happens the plain bearings on the rods/crank become 'destroyed'. The aspect I am curious about is how long did the motor run this way? How hot did it get? Did the RPM slow down, as in bearings seizing on the crank?
If any of this happened it becomes a good idea to open the motor and actually check the rod bearings. Otherwise you can take your chances on the rod bearings being in serviceable condition, and keep your ear alert for any rattling/knocking sounds, and your eye on the oil pressure. (good luck with that)
I had taken it for a ride to Lowe's about 20 miles from my house.
On the way back the temp gauge was reading low, then high... fluctuating...
So I headed home and parked it. It was hot, and not much coolant left.
Pushed it into the garage...
No noises, no seizing up, just hot....
Engine still turns ok by hand at the flywheel bolt, no spark plugs, CCW...
How big of a job is swapping out the bearings?
And are they still available...?
And... if everything is still ok, I read somewhere that running diesel fuel for a few minutes
instead of oil will help clean out the engine. True?
What I don't understand is how the yellow slime got up into where the blow-by hose is on the rear head.
And there was no slime in the oil filter housing, so hopefully my oil pump is clean enough.
To replace either rod or main bearings the cases must be split. Big job but not impossible. Some experience doing such repair work is highly advised. Repair manuals are very helpful and necessary.
I don't know about flushing with diesel, but it sounds likely. I would hesitate to run with diesel as the lubricant for more than a few(10 - 20) seconds. Maybe someone that has experience with doing this can expound.
Bearing shells for the rods can be fitted from some automobiles, there is at least one discussion from some years past that has this information.
Engine is removed... rear cyl head is off...
Top of piston is fairly clean, which leads me to believe
a blown head gasket... ??
Head gasket came of real easy... evidence of some seepage
between the head and cyl at the back of the engine.
Going to do valves, seals, head gasket, etc....
Forgetting about the diesel flush. Just going to run some
marvel mystery oil with my oil and change it a few times.
Hopefully the innards are ok....
Quote from: musicweb on February 20, 2022, 06:48:46 AM
So I pulled the rear valve cover off (not much room there to remove it) and intake clearances
were fine but the exhaust was .10mm and .23mm, so they need attention.
Also a lot of the yellow gook around because of the coolant in the oil.
Breather hole was almost plugged up.
So I'm thinking I should drop the engine and do the rear valves, head gasket, cleanup, etc....
Prophet says to use 2 ratchet straps to lower the engine, and I have those from when
I transported my bike down to VA.
I would imagine the exhaust has to be disconnected.
Any input as far as dropping the engine would be helpful....
The exhaust has to be removed, but you can leave the Y piece connected. Don't touch those horrible clamps if they are gas tight.
Bearings last a long time - unless there is damage they probably won't need replacing. They aren't available from Yamaha but hunt around I think they are all standard sizes (METRIC of course)
Splitting the cases is quite a time consuming job but it does go back together fairly easily - just follow the manual carefully. You'll need basic tools plus a torch, Yamabond4, assembly lube and a few replacement parts - a lock tab and some copper washers from memory. Plus anything that needs replacing of course
If you mean the two exhaust clamps at back of cyl head, they came off easily. and
the rings look fine.
Waiting for 2 shims to come today hopefully so I can finish the rear head and get the
engine back in.
Will check other things on the bike while waiting....
Girlfriend would like her garage back, but she's very understanding... :)
Those clamps and rings are what he meant but the difficulty is not getting them apart but getting them to seal when reassembled.
OK... so is there an alternative to whats in there as far as the seal rings?
Larger ones perhaps?
They did not move at all when disconnected... like they are stuck there.
Just found out my valve shims won't be here until friday, so I put the engine
back in this morning. A little twisting and turning on the floor jack and it slid right in.
It's a pain, but I can get at the rear exhaust cam when the shims come in.
Does taking off the right side frame rail and re-installing it affect the frame alignment at all?
Finally got around to finishing up the engine...
It started after about 20 seconds of cranking, but now it has a knock in it. :(
Bearings? or maybe I screwed up the timing?
Oil light is out, but as it warms up, seems to get louder...
I had flushed it twice, but the knock is still there....
Take a screw driver and put it to your ear on the lower cases and then the heads. Should tell you the location of the noise.
Took the front valve cover off and found a lose exhaust cam gear bolt....
Sworn I torqued them before reassembly...
So, double checking my timing and torques tonight.
We'll see what happens...
Surprised the cam bolt didn't back out all the way, but maybe it can't.
Probably is my knocking noise...
Will also pull the rear valve cover and check everything there.
Sure beats a spun bearing. Hopefully no bent valves.
Yeah... now I can't get the timing right...
When I line up the cam dots with the cam caps the engine locks up
when I turn the engine and it gets to the intake stroke.
Must be a tooth off?
I don't use the dots on the cam gears, just the ones on the camshaft.
But it was running....
I can't hear your knock from here, but one thing to check is the flywheel rotor /starter clutch connection. Does the knock disappear when the motor is revved? A loose starter clutch will rattle more at lower RPM but seems to smooth out as RPM climb. :police:
I had done all the upgrades when I first got the bike Mike, back in 2007...
I'm thinking it's the loose cam bolts, front cyl....
Going to tackle it this morning, but read my previous post....
Fixed the front cyl timing and it's running again, but overheated...
Went to check the fan switch and it came on for a while.
May have a bad switch or didn't get all the air out, or bad connection.
Will check after lunch....
But the knocking noises are gone and she runs smooth.... yay!
Way to persevere. Your overheating will be conquered to I surmise.
Yep... but I need a new battery. Mine is old and not much CCA left.
No problem though, now that she's running again.
Switched out the 2 sensors in the T fitting and now the fan comes
on just above halfway on the gauge.
Now just a matter of synching and adjusting the carbs again, although it
doesn't run too bad....
First ride today for about an hour and it ran great...
Only thing I noticed though was the idle was erratic, going up then down slowly.
Maybe because I did the throttle valve seals on the carbs?
They seemed to open and close ok when I put the plates back in.
I can live with the idle...at least it runs good otherwise...
You might have a leak in the YICS chamber or hoses. Disconnect the hoses and plug the nipples and see what happens.
Musicweb, your mention of "yellow slime" causes me to wonder what you have there. The mention reminded me of when I had a Norton commando, and accumulated moisture combined with some oil 'formed' in the valve covers. It was creamy white slimy stuff and when poked with a screwdriver water beads leaked out. It was just condensation combined with oil mist but it looked strange and I wanted it out of there. I thought a good hard run would 'boil' it out and evaporate the moisture but finding a safe place to run hard for a half hour or so without getting in trouble was out of the question. So is this sort of what you have? Or do you figure it came from the leaking coolant? Was there coolant in your oil when you drained it?
Jefferson - I had disconnected the Yics chamber years ago....
Fret - Yes, the slime looked like that, but no moisture in it. I cleaned it all out...
There was some coolant in my oil...
This post has a few pointers about the idle....
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14796.msg135830#msg135830
Guess I'll recheck my fuel levels and carb adjustments...
Most likely coolant related then. Glad it didn't 'lunch' the plain bearings. :police: