So i just got me a 1982 yamaha vision and was going along just fine. First bike I'd ever owned, and was learnign to ride and maintain at once. Bike died at an intersection from unknown causes, wouldn't restart. I let it sit for a while and instead of starting up, it backfired ::very loud:: From that point on anytime i tried to start it, it wouldn't, and any successive attempts after that would only result in backfires.
I want to clean the carbs and install an inline fuel filter, however, I can't seem to find a copy of the haynes repair manual for this bike ANYWHERE locally...
Is anyone in San Diego who might know where to help me find one, OR wanna show me how to do this? Thanks a ton!
-Blane
Blane welcome to the world of visions. you can order a cd from lucky which has the manual and other important stuff on it http://www.xz550.com/ (http://www.xz550.com/) that should get you back up and running in no time.
Right on! Thanks a ton! I know its not technical, however, since i have alreayd begun a post, I might as well just ask here if there is anyone in San Diego, or maybe a group of people why ride yamaha's. My old man taught me on a yamaha, so theyre my preference...
:) Hi and welcome to the ROV, your new and extended family... 8)
:) First, get in touch with "Lucky"...He has a CD/DVD, (which he produces), it contains: Workshop and part's manuals, owners hand book, helpful hints and tip's, original advertising brochure's, etc, etc...It will save you and your Vision a lot of heart ache... ;)
The symptoms you describe could be the carbs need a good clean, however, its more likely an under charging battery...A dead/dying battery, Stator and/or R/R issues :-\ Make sure your battery is
FULLY charged and give her another try...You can also boost her from a charged car battery, (the car should not be running)... Let us know what happens and we will help you out stage by stage. Your in good hands here, my friend 8)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Ill try the battery thing, i got my car parked out back... This may sound retarded... But umm, battery is under the seat right?
theres no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers. the batter is behind the left side panel. just pull it off to get access.
The battery is under the left ( as you sit on the bike) side cover. Pay attention the the polarity.
Sooooo, gonna go try that now... bbiab
Mmk, i hooked her up to my car battery and gave her a go, no dice... turned over but no joy, but no backfire either... im kind of afraid to give it a lil gas when starting now because it only tends to backfire then...should i hook it up to the car battery and let it sit for a while?
Again, the car had issues starting only after it mysteriously died while running... how can i check and make sure my stator is ok?
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
It's a good test.
Brian
Ok so, I should say, alot of the little paint indicators have been rubbed off, tis an old bike. Just to make sure, when starting, the choke should be full forawrd, or full back? Want to make sure im not flooding...
Addition: Backfire just sent my cat scrambling across the lawn... kinda funny to watch :P
Update: Bike will no longer turn over on it's own. Now makes a nasty sounding electrical hum/click. The further i go on with this little experiment the more it is making me think its an electrical issue...
Edited for grammar
choke on.... move to left.
Sounds like it may be a starter issue. Connect the neg. jumper cable to a frame bolt , momentarily touch the terminal on the starter with the pos. cable. If nothing happens , then the starter needs a rebuild. Not a big deal , the info is on Lucky's CD.
Quote from: Rick G on July 08, 2008, 08:45:15 PM
Sounds like it may be a starter issue. Connect the neg. jumper cable to a frame bolt , momentarily touch the terminal on the starter with the pos. cable. If nothing happens , then the starter needs a rebuild. Not a big deal , the info is on Lucky's CD.
Whats gonna happen if something Does happen?
I think... I am going to wait until I get Lucky's DVD before I do anything else. I havent the slightest idea what any of this stuff looks like, or how it works, so imma wait until i have some schematics, pictures, and step by step instructions before I go any further. I don't want to irrevesibly break something
if something does happen the starter will spin and crank the bike over. That test basically just bypasses the starter button and wiring and powers it up manually.
As Extent says , it will just cause the starter to function or not. If it does then the problem is in the starter activation system.IE, starter button, solenoid or wiring. If not, then the starter is more than likely the problem. I'm betting on the starter being the culprit.
I dont mean to poke a bees nest, but; i know the lucky cd is awesome, and full of every piece of information possible to find and some thats impossible, but its not a paper book, and you cant hold it in your hands and read specifications for systems, parts, you cant highlight things, and most people dont have a laptop they can have on hand while working on something. Not saying you shouldnt get the lucky cd, im just saying that having hard copy in your hand to look at is useful in a different sort of way.
They sell haynes manuals all over the place for xz550s, you kinda almost trip over them, not sure what you were searching for but heres one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Vision-V-Twins-Owners-Workbook/dp/1850107610
I talked to Blane on the phone yesterday, it really sounds like his charging system has gone south. the bike teased him with 90 miles of good running before that. went over the basics & i sent him the Electrosport charts..
--Lucky
hey, if you are still looking for a haynes manual try amazon. That's where I got mine. It is nice to have pictures and instructions on how to put everything back.
Quote from: inanecathode on July 09, 2008, 03:43:08 AM
I dont mean to poke a bees nest, but; i know the lucky cd is awesome, and full of every piece of information possible to find and some thats impossible, but its not a paper book, and you cant hold it in your hands and read specifications for systems, parts, you cant highlight things, and most people dont have a laptop they can have on hand while working on something. Not saying you shouldnt get the lucky cd, im just saying that having hard copy in your hand to look at is useful in a different sort of way.
They sell haynes manuals all over the place for xz550s, you kinda almost trip over them, not sure what you were searching for but heres one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Vision-V-Twins-Owners-Workbook/dp/1850107610
inane: have you ever heard of a printout? ;D
As soon as I got my DVD I copied the files to my hard drive at home and at work and then proceeded to printout all the manuals. I now have the Haynes, Yamaha service and fairing manuals in a binder. If I ever was to wreck a page I can simply reprint that page only.......... 8)
just my $0.02 worth of Canadian thinking..............hehe
I actually have both hard-copy (including the parts micro-fiche, someplace) and the CD. (which I need to update sometime...) If I'm referencing parts, or stuff I will go to the online version (copied the CD to my hard drive). If I'm outside and want to know a torque setting, or when I was putting carbs/forks back together, I used the manuals as an instruction manual (recipe of sorts). Either way, I look at what I am doing on the computer before hand, so I have an idea of what is coming up.
Must be why it took 10 months to rebuild my bike...
Brian
Quote from: vadasz1 on July 09, 2008, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on July 09, 2008, 03:43:08 AM
I dont mean to poke a bees nest, but; i know the lucky cd is awesome, and full of every piece of information possible to find and some thats impossible, but its not a paper book, and you cant hold it in your hands and read specifications for systems, parts, you cant highlight things, and most people dont have a laptop they can have on hand while working on something. Not saying you shouldnt get the lucky cd, im just saying that having hard copy in your hand to look at is useful in a different sort of way.
They sell haynes manuals all over the place for xz550s, you kinda almost trip over them, not sure what you were searching for but heres one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Vision-V-Twins-Owners-Workbook/dp/1850107610
inane: have you ever heard of a printout? ;D
As soon as I got my DVD I copied the files to my hard drive at home and at work and then proceeded to printout all the manuals. I now have the Haynes, Yamaha service and fairing manuals in a binder. If I ever was to wreck a page I can simply reprint that page only.......... 8)
just my $0.02 worth of Canadian thinking..............hehe
You can send me 20 dollars in paper if you want :)
Quote from: vadasz1 on July 09, 2008, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on July 09, 2008, 03:43:08 AM
I dont mean to poke a bees nest, but; i know the lucky cd is awesome, and full of every piece of information possible to find and some thats impossible, but its not a paper book, and you cant hold it in your hands and read specifications for systems, parts, you cant highlight things, and most people dont have a laptop they can have on hand while working on something. Not saying you shouldnt get the lucky cd, im just saying that having hard copy in your hand to look at is useful in a different sort of way.
They sell haynes manuals all over the place for xz550s, you kinda almost trip over them, not sure what you were searching for but heres one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Vision-V-Twins-Owners-Workbook/dp/1850107610
inane: have you ever heard of a printout? ;D
As soon as I got my DVD I copied the files to my hard drive at home and at work and then proceeded to printout all the manuals. I now have the Haynes, Yamaha service and fairing manuals in a binder. If I ever was to wreck a page I can simply reprint that page only.......... 8)
just my $0.02 worth of Canadian thinking..............hehe
You can send me 20 dollars in paper, and a 30 dollar ink cartridge if you want :)
Over time, you manage to collect things related to the Vision. I bought a Haynes in the mid 90s, and got a .pdf file of the factory manual about the same time I joined the ROV. I printed it out & used somewhere around 200 sheets of paper. I now have a printer and software that would allow me to print on both sides of a page, keeping everything in proper order. However, it still would be expensive from an ink perspective. I still may reprint it so it takes less space in the 3 ring binder.
I'm also moving my old IBM PII400 machine out to the garage soon. This will allow me to have web access while working on the V. Plus, I can have Lucky's CD at close hand without needing to go back in the house, clean up & then get on the computer. Should make things easier if I have problems or questions. It will also make photo documentation of projects easier.
If you go to any office supply place, you can get 500 sheets of paper for under $5 - on sale. I recently bought a 500 sheet pack for $4.50 & it was combined with a buy one, get two free - that makes 1500 sheets for $4.50. It is 20# bond and has a 92 brightness rating. Pretty good deal.
H2O
And you can now buy laser printer for home use too. I've seen laser printers from Brother and Samsung for under $100. Lasers are much more economical when printing large batches. Even a colour laser will only run you around $250, which isn't too bad. I remember about 12-15 years ago when a colour laser printer, for offices only at that time, was around $7000 - $8000. :o
ha ha ha ha ,,,,,, i set up an old laptop that serves only to be my bike service center ,,, but i did do one thing that made life easy. i took my cd to kinko's and had EVERYTHING on it printed , @50.00 (make a friend,, offer 50.00 to night shift worker and kick in a bottle of patron silver-- never know what little wonders that will do )
now i have a pocket pc,, nice little dell axim x30 624 with wi fi and bluetooth,, so i downloaded all of the manuals as pdf files onto a sd card , small screen, but can still use it
makes for great peace of mind on longer rides,,, plenty of space for a pda with answers .
Hokay, so i havent worked on the bike in a couple days, had to sling a few dirnks and wait a few tables to work up the green, but the manual is on its way. I found, as i moved my bike today, i have a small oilspot where is was sitting, maybe the size of a quarter.
Don't know if its related or not, just an observation. In any case, looking forward to getting work done on it soon, i really wanna get riding again...
Small oil spots are somewhat of the norm. I get one every now and then. Ususlly comes from the grommet that the stator wires go through or the oil sender. Unless, the oil is dripping fron where your starter is on the FRONT of the engine. Thats NOT normal.
Don't give up on your bike. Mine was a total basket case when I got it and now its absolutely fantastic.
David
So, more bad news. Oil is leaking, albeit slowly, but nonetheless, from what appears to be a couple bolts on the bottom of the engine assembly, one very near the throttle control assembly on the underside. Thoughts? Ideas?
on the left? that's your clutch, not throttle.
your DVD went out today..
don't sweat the small shit, not yet anyway, get the bike fixed up first ;)
--Lucky
Upon further inspection, i have found that i am leaking oil/fuel from 4 points. Several bolts on the underside were -wet- to the touch, and where the fuel line meets the switch that selects main/reserve/prime appears to be too short, it looks to be crimped just on the front side of the switch, that junction reeks of fuel and was also damp...
Just some observations as i prepare to do some work to it.
Which brings me to my next question.
Going shopping tomorrow. Need tools, I have none. I know I'll need a multimeter and a socket set... please, enlighten me as to some other tools i may need...
Blane,
Metric sockets and box-end wrenches, hex keys, a combo screwdriver (flat-blade and phillips) and a sparkplug socket for motorcycles are all important. Breaker bar, torque wrench, circlip tool, and needle-nose pliers are all nice to have. I also have a metric hex-key socket set so I can re-torque my side covers etc. Soldering iron, wire stripper and crimper have come in handy too.
There are a lot of folks out there with more suggestions I'm sure.
Me, I kind of buy them as I need them, and I enjoy needing them, if you take my meaning--something like: "Woo-hoo! Looks like I need a crimper to re-do some wiring...." I even manufactured a tool from a hacksaw blade to undercut grooves on my commutator while re-building my starter (that's per the shop manual).
Enjoy. The riders on this website are the best resource.
Ed--
Thanks, theyve all been added to my list... gonna go shopping tomorrow, and im really kind of excited
The spark plug socket for the vision is an 18 mm one , some 18 mm spark plug sockets are too thick walled , so you may need to buy and return several , until you find one that fits. The more expensive ones seem to be thinner.
Ditto on the spark plug socket.
It took me 3 tries.
Ed--
Quote from: Rick G on July 15, 2008, 12:27:30 AM
The spark plug socket for the vision is an 18 mm one , some 18 mm spark plug sockets are too thick walled , so you may need to buy and return several , until you find one that fits. The more expensive ones seem to be thinner.
agree on last two posts.... you may find that a particular 18mm (deep) socket will fit one, none or both plugs :P
The socket from the OEM toolkit is fantastic for spark plug R&R. If you don't have one, look for a lawn mower socket. I've tried a thin walled socket & ratchet & the OEM system is superior to it. Look for an OEM tool kit & be willing to spend up to $50 for it. The only other tool worth having the kit for is the preload adjusrer. Otherwise, the OEM tool is junk for anything other than collectible value.
Just my $0.02
H2O
mmk, so here is what ive done so far. Ive adjusted the fuel line to where its nto pinched... no go. got a backfire. Both front and rear cylindars are getting juice. I yanked off my cables and shorted them to the fram and got spark... Gonna pull my plugs now and make sure theyr enot fouled..
What should be next on my list?
Was checking out that electric problem flow chart an it requires my bike to be running at 2500 rpm : /
The backfire comes from the engine not spinning fast enough during cranking, you can get spark, the coils still fire. the fact that your getting a backfire means your getting plenty of fuel, so no pinched fuel line. (or rather a fuel restriction isn't the problem)
i think it's time to drain the oil, pull the starter & see if it's full of oil....
Right - o can do..
I have to work tonight so that part is gonna have to wait.
This method will be in the repair manual?
Quote from: bdutro on July 16, 2008, 03:47:12 PM
This method will be in the repair manual?
nope... but is explained very well here: http://www.ridersofvision.net/Technical/Starter/starter.html
Be cautious when checking spark. Always be certain the the second plug is either grounded as well , or still on the plug in the engine. if the ignition voltage pulse has no where to go it can damage the TCI.
The only time I can consistently make my Vision "backfire" is when my battery is low. It was happening wuite often last year and even though my battery showed 12.4 volts, it had a bad cell. I replaced the battery and no more problem.
Also, check all your electrical connections to make sure they are not corroded. You need that battery to be good and putting as much juice to the plugs to get a good strong spark to fire it up. When you have that, starting her up is very easy. While your'e at it, check your plug wires too. If they are bad, cracked, or just plain old, they are not going to function up to spec. I'm embarrased to ad mit, that they are the last thing I have left tp replace on my bike...
David
Quote from: YellowJacket! on July 20, 2008, 09:37:40 AM
...I'm embarrassed to admit, that they are the last thing I have left to replace on my bike...
>:( GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....David!!!
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: Tiger on July 20, 2008, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: YellowJacket! on July 20, 2008, 09:37:40 AM
...I'm embarrassed to admit, that they are the last thing I have left to replace on my bike...
>:( GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....David!!!
8).......TIGER....... 8)
that and your BRAKE BAR BOLTS!!
Bad Boy, Bad! go sit in the corner!
;)
:) Lucky, your gonna need to get a new apprentice... ::) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: Lucky on July 20, 2008, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Tiger on July 20, 2008, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: YellowJacket! on July 20, 2008, 09:37:40 AM
...I'm embarrassed to admit, that they are the last thing I have left to replace on my bike...
>:( GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....David!!!
8).......TIGER....... 8)
that and your BRAKE BAR BOLTS!!
Bad Boy, Bad! go sit in the corner!
;)
Yup, Both sets are sitting on my desk waiting for BOTH of us, right in front of my nose. ;D
David
my tourer has been done & checked recently as well. the set you have is for Cafe, which isn't street ready anyway.
Mmk day light is fading and now i must come inside. News on mah baby.
Eve, I have named her, is not doing any better, but is not any worse for the wear, today I replaced the fuel line between the reserve/main valve. Check the wires and replaced the plugs. One of the filaments was 'missing' which was somewhat concerning.
She still won't start, and will barely turn over unless i connect it to my car. (The car is of, of course).
The battery aparently has little or no charge, so tomorrow I am going to try and find someone who will lend me a battery charger...
Should I try and cgarge the battery or should I just get a new one?
Charge & test the battery. A load tester is best & can probably be done at Auto Zone or other auto parts store like NAPA or Checker (Schucks / Kragen). A small tester that checks each cell is a cheap & handy tool to have as well. You use it by squeezing a bulb & sucking some of the acid into the tester. Some models float small balls, others have a needle. The ball type is most common.
If it tests OK, use it. Otherwise, get a new one. Remember, if you get a new battery that isn't pre-filled, you need to charge it properly, which means to use a slow / trickle charger & let it go overnight. If you use a faster charge, it tends to decrease battery life.
You should keep your motorcycle battery on a battery tender if it will be sitting for any appreciable length of time. I normally keep mine hooked up whenever I'm not riding it. A Battery Tender Jr. runs about $30 and will keep your battery in good shape for years.
H2O
You didn't mention the slow start when we talked today.
your starter has oil in it, you need to drain the oil, pull the starter, clean the oil out of it, change the seal & poss the brushes too..
--Lucky
also, like i mentioned, add yourself to the map so we can see who's near you, there's no substitute for hands on experience, especially since you in tend this to be your main source of transportation...
Yay! Found osmeone near me! Chivo1944!
Welp, heres the beef. While charging my bike i was workin gon my car, having some nasty noises coming from it and come to find i have a bad wheel bearing. now i HAVE to get my bike fixed. When it rains it pours...
:)
Walmart....... Battery= $30.00 USD...Float charger= $20.00 USD...Peace of mind, priceless 8)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Well, charged the battery, she is turning over MUCH better now, but still not starting...
Can anyone tell me whats behind the coils that may be causing not spark?
first thought is fuses. if you have the original glass fuse holder, it needs to be replaced with modern blade fuses. the metal tabs that hold the glass fuses in break off more often than not.
Quote from: bdutro on July 21, 2008, 11:14:31 PM
Can anyone tell me whats behind the coils that may be causing not spark?
Maybe a lack of electricity? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist.
If you are sure there is no spark, the fuses are the first place to check, followed by plugs & wires - which should be done anyway - they're cheap & at least you
know they're good. If those fixes don't cure it, then it's TCI or coils.
H
2O
Upon further inspection tonight i discovered that my spark is intermitent at best. I tested each wire again and only got spark against the frame about 25% of the time. I tested from the coils, and again, only got spark about 25% on both coils. Leads me to believe its something behind them. The original glass fuse holder has been replaced with a newer glass fuse holder.
I talked ot the previous owner today, and he said during his 'busy' schedule that it may have something to do with a short in the casing on the left side of the bike. Which casing, he did not say as 'he didnt have time' and i needed to 'take it to a shop' And he promptly gave me his brother's shop number.
Any idea which casing he might be talking about? ooooorrrrrr anything electircal that might cause no spark? i ALSo found a tube that might have been detatched, it led no where and came fromt he left side of the carbs.. overflow maybe?
Edited for the word 'testes' to 'tested' Lol @ lucky's wife for the padcock comments :P
it's not what you think, we were talking on the phone about the petcock, & my wife couldn't stop lauging!
The short on the left side could be the battery to ground connection. Follow the negative cable to a bolt on the engine. Remove said bolt & clean everything - the cable end & the engine in that area. Reassemble. The bolt is pretty long.
As for the detached tube - what color is it? Clear (yellowed) is the carb vent - one attaches to each carb at the rear of the choke (enrichment) plungers - meaning there are two of them. They exit behind the engine, under the frame. There's a hole for them. A clear or black tube may be the battery vent. Attaches to a small fitting on the battery near the negative post. It points down. If it is a maintenance-free battery, this fitting is not present. It also exits in the same area as the carb vents.
H2O
i'm thinking a short on the left could be a pick-up coil wire rubbed thru... would explane the intermitant firing.
also, if it's not cranking fast enough, the coils may not be building a charge..
EDIT:
hose on the left off the white (yelow by now) plastic fittings are the carb overflow drain hoses. they end down by the center stand.
How long since the plug wires and plug caps were inspected or replaced?
I had something similar on my project bike. Turned out to be the plugs....put new ones in if you haven't done so. The pickup coils also could be your problem.
Quote from: kwells on July 22, 2008, 09:35:44 AM
I had something similar on my project bike. Turned out to be the plugs....put new ones in if you haven't done so. The pickup coils also could be your problem.
I remember that, it was bizzare.
In fact i think my first vision was doing the same thing, needed plugs :o
I've only looked at the last few posts on this thread - intermittant spark is usually down to HT leads shorting out on cylinder heads/other areas/duff HT leads - I'd replace those first.
P
Plugs are brand new, wires are kind of old... but i tested the spark straight out of the coils with little or no spark...
And it figures, the guy i would have work on it is on vacation till the 28th.... i need to get my bike running sooner than that, my car is on its last leg...
So i need to check the electricity flow between the battery and the coils... I did charge the battery, and its turning over nice and quick, what about replacing it with a new one... would that help?
My neighbor charged it for me, and he said he was suprised it was even functional it was so low...
Other ideas are welcomed, Im all out of them...
Have you measured the resistance of the coils to make sure they're okay? I don't happen to remember what they should be, but it's worth a check.
Brian
ill check it oot
Mmmk, as per the repair manual, i checked the resistance on the starter relay and it came to 3.8
The manual says it shoudlnt read more than 3.5. Gremlin anyone? Could this be causing weak spark?
Coils are measuring at 3.0 ohms as well...
I'd say your readings are nominal, but i would open that relay & spray it out with electronics cleaner..
Unwind the plug caps ccw and remove them , then cut 3/8 of an inch of the plug wire off and re assemble . I also remove the the resistors on old bikes and substitute a piece of 1/8 inch brass rod, as this will give a bit better spark .
In the end you should get new plug wires ( NOT the carbon core wire used in cars , but the wire core used in lawn mowers) and caps .
What are the tricks to atarting a cold bike?I left my bike for 10 hours when I went to work and it wouldn't start when I came home.I almost took it to work but was scared of this so I thought I would test it when I came home.I'm glad I didn't take it to work because it looks like I would be walking home.It starts great when it is warm.
First, Take your gas cap off for a minute. Sometimes the vent is clogged and the tank can't breathe.
My normal starting procedure is 1/2 choke, twist the throttle 3 to 4 times then hit the start button. Starts right up. If the bike is warm, I omit the choke step and usually just twist the throttle twice.
David
Quote from: YellowJacket! on September 08, 2008, 10:47:43 AM
My normal starting procedure is 1/2 choke, twist the throttle 3 to 4 times then hit the start button. Starts right up. If the bike is warm, I omit the choke step and usually just twist the throttle twice.
This is very similar to mine, except that I leave the choke off until the bike catches, and then put it on. Usually starts within a second or two.
Brian
I appreciate that.When the bike is warm it starts right up.Probably getting the carbs cleaned wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Quote from: kev10104 on September 09, 2008, 05:28:35 AM
I appreciate that.When the bike is warm it starts right up.Probably getting the carbs cleaned wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Rule #1 of all Visions: Clean carbs make for happy Visions.
David