Downshifting with out the clutch

[Kiwi]

I accidently tapped the shifter with my foot while I was in 4th,  and it shifted down to 3rd.  I didn't hit it hard, and I did not use the clutch.  It shifted just as smooth as if I had used the clutch.   It won't do this if I try to go up a gear.
Is this normal,  or something to worry about?

[Re-Vision]

Its normal,it will shift up or down if you match the engine RPM to coincide with transmission speed.  Probably best if you don't, you can do damage to shifting mechanism if you mess up.  BDC

[Lucky]

it's actually another skill you can use if you break a clutch cable. stopping & starting are the tough parts....

[Rick G]

It actually works better going up , when going down you need to bip the throttle just as you shift. I still wouldn't make a habit of it.

[Kid Jedi]

I had a 1982 gpz 550 with evenly spaced gears which was a dream to dry shift compared to the vision.  I have tried it on the vision ONCE. Never again. It doesn't feel like i have enough time to blip the throttle to get her to slide in to gear nicely. and didn't go smoothly enough.

When transmissions are cheaper than friction plates I might experiment again.


She just doesn't seem to like it, ya know?

[lexx790]

Looks like I'm going to have to change my riding style when I get my vision on the road, my GS500 clutchless gear changes are as sweet as a nut, even better than when I do use the clutch.

[Rick G]

The gear box in four cylinder bikes is lighter, resulting in easier clutch-less shifts.

[Kid Jedi]

I disagree. Most inline 4's are 6 speed (narrow power band), meaning closer gear ratios, so the difference of engine speed and road speed between 2 gears is not as large. Also shifting fork length & drum design have an effect. on an inline 4 the gearbox has more room and the shifting forks are longer. this makes the transition from one gear to the next take longer giving you more time to match engine speed and road speed.

[Re-Vision]

I agree, I learned to drive on an old International semi .  No synchronizer required double clutching or learning how to match engine speed to transmission.  I can see a light weight, high reving engine matching speeds more quickly but not more easily.  BDC

[lexx790]

The gear box in four cylinder bikes is lighter, resulting in easier clutch-less shifts.

My GS500 is a six speed twin cylinder and has better low down torque than some 600 4 cylinders.
I guess its just a good gearbox.

[Kid Jedi]

torque is determined by cam profiles and pistion diameter

[treedragon]

When the bike first came out one aspect reviewers were impressed with was the XZ's superb gearbox and ability to do clutchless shifts........

I have to agree.

Not only are they easy to do on my bike with minimal throttle work but I have done it any number of times........ by "accident"....... big feet and a fluid seating style you know  ::)  ::)

One requirement seems to be having your linkages in good condition as it can catch in them rather than in the gearbox itself. When I had a short lever arrangement straight off the shaft I was particularly susceptible to this form of engine stress testing............

[Rick G]

Disagree it you like , Jedi, but its a fact, I learned about it from Gorden Jennings.  When a 500 4 (for instance) fires its a 125 cc power pulse . When a 500cc twin fires its  a 250 cc power pulse, and of course a 500 singe hits with all 500 cc.  The heavier the power pulse the heavier the gear box has to be. There's a lot to learn from the tech section of past cycle worlds.

[Kid Jedi]

OK I was visualizing  the transmission wrong shifter fork length has nothing to do with the ease of dry shifting. gear layout \ clearance and gear ratios do though.

I have not gotten the hang of dry shifting properly on the vision but I don't have the need for it in my riding style. you could just get an electronic shifter.

As long as you unload the transmission and pre-load your shift lever your golden.

After replacing 5 shifting forks in the last 2 months alone I would rather do some friction plates on my bike.

yup I was  wrong  ::)

[akvision]

Geeeez, you guys..............what is the primary purpose of the clutch lever and cable?????  It is there, so use it.

You know you can do with out tp too.  In a pinch!

[Kid Jedi]

you mean IF you pinch right?

[akvision]

Yeah, it's the single malt strike again... :-\

[inanecathode]

It works, until your rd400 with backwards shifting makes you downshift instead of upshift, and the anticipatory lean over the bars almost puts your face into the front tire.