Lots of questions. Carbs, filters, stators UPDATE

[louthepou]

I remember my Vision surging maybe sort of like that. I'd get going, in first gear, throttle on, then going through the gears; once trying to slow down, I'd cut off the gas, but the rpm would still stay high, so gas was still going through. Ended up being the accelerator pump out of adjustment. I turned the adjusting rod a few turns, trial and error style, and after a few tries it was back to normal.

I don't know if that will help, who knows. Remember if you're fooling around with the adjusting rod to count how many turns you're giving, to be able to revert back to an initial position if your adjustment worsens the problem.

Louis

[DancinOn1Wheel]

i think i am to the point of completelytearing the carbs down, cleaning, and resetting everything on them....

i think that is what i should have done in the first place... they probly need them, but i might try tinkering with them a little bit first... not really looking forward to pulling them again.

any other ideas??? any other year carbs that are better and less picky??? 83's maybe?

i dont know... funds are limited and i spent almost 2x as much on little parts for it as i have on the whole bike...

- Justin

[h2olawyer]

Unless the oil leak into the starter is real bad, you may not see signs of leaking.  You need to open the starter up to know for sure.

Another problem with these starters is the brushes wear out.  You can get a replacement brush plate from Yamaha ($$) or a shop that rebuilds starters & alternators can fix it for less.  The brushes are also available and you can repair it yourself to save even more.  Don't remember the source(s) for new brushes but I'm sure someone here who has fixed theirs will let you know.  When instaling new brushes, you should have the commutator turned as well.

One more thing.  When disassembling the starter, make sure you keep all the thrust washers in the correct order.

H2O

[Lucky]

Another place to look is the YICS. (or any vacuume leak)  when they leak they can cause a hunting & surging.  usually it's only noticable at idle, but if severe enough it'll effect the bike runs in all ranges. see my site on repair details.
--Lucky

[DancinOn1Wheel]

Another place to look is the YICS. (or any vacuume leak) ?when they leak they can cause a hunting & surging. ?usually it's only noticable at idle, but if severe enough it'll effect the bike runs in all ranges. see my site on repair details.
--Lucky

Lucky, i spent most of the remainder of my night on your site, lol.

from reading your site and anything else i could find, it is sayin that the heavy surging is from dirty carbs (maybe) or incorrectly adjusted/un-synched carbs.  I am thinking that is most likely the case (incorrectly adjusted/un-synched) cuz like i said, i know the cleaning made a differance cuz the bike fired right up like it never has b4...

im definately not ruling out the YICS or a vacume leak by any means, hut i think that carb adjustment is most likely the culprate. I'll pick up a can of carb clean tonite and start up the bike and see if i can pinpoint a leak somewhere. Im thinking that i am going to replace all the rubber hoses with new hoses anyway so that should hopefully rule out them as a suspect.

Is there anyway to eliminate the YICS all together? what would be the benefits/drawbacks (im sure more drawbacks than benefits) but if i can make the whole thing a little more simple, why the hell not, just that much less to go wrong later down the road.

- Justin

[h2olawyer]

You can eliminate the YICS by plugging the hoses or finding plugs that will fit on the metal tubes coming out of the heads.  Elimination of the YICS will cause a drop in performance & maybe a slight increase in fuel consumption.  The engine was designed to use it & does run better with it - provided there are no leaks in the system.  I noticed that when I plugged mine last summer (to synch the carbs) the RPM dropped quite a bit - don't remember exactly how much at the moment.  I think it was somewhere between 300 ~ 500 RPM.

To get the carbs sorted out, temporary elimination of the YICS does make things simpler.  I would recommend that after getting the carbs squeaky clean, adjusted & synched, you tackle the YICS - check for & fix internal & external leaks in the box & get some new hoses for it.

As was stated before by Lucky & others, these carbs really need to be clean.  It took me three tries using Berryman's Chem-Dip to get them running right the first time I did it.  (Before I found this forum.)  They had been neglected as the bike sat for about 5 years without draining the carbs or adding Sta-Bil or Seafoam to the fuel.  ::)  I'll never make that mistake again!

H2O

[Lucky]

I would recommend that after getting the carbs squeaky clean, adjusted & synched, you tackle the YICS - check for & fix internal & external leaks in the box & get some new hoses for it.

Actually, you should tackle the YICS first, because if it is leaking, then you'll be trying to synq & set the pilots with a vacuume leak..

[Extent]

Checking the YICS for leaks takes literally 30 seconds, and if it is leaking it can cause all kinds of wierdness.  Just get it over with.

[h2olawyer]

I should have been clearer - I recommended plugging off or eliminating the YICS before doing the carb work - if simplicity of systems is the goal. ?Otherwise, Lucky & Extent are absolutely right - YICS repair is not difficult & when functioning properly will not interfere with carb cleaning & tuning.

H2O

[DancinOn1Wheel]

well when i had the YICS off, i checked it for leaks.... and it seemed good... didnt find anything wrong... but i'll check it again. 10mm bold and thats about it... i think imma go get some new hoses in a few minutes and replace those anyway...

as far as synching... im kinda broke and dont really have the money right now to buy a decent gauge or tool, but i do have a vacume gauge for a pillar pod for a car that is brand new??? could that work to synch, or at least get pretty close until i can get a good gauge???

- Justin

[ProfessorRex]

You can build a fluid manometer very easily,  I think there's one on lucky's site... if not here's a site I found from a quick google search for "homemade manometer"

http://bagpipejourney.com/articles/manometer.shtml

[Extent]

Otherwise, Lucky & Extent are absolutely right - YICS repair is not difficult & when functioning properly will not interfere with carb cleaning & tuning.
H2O

Heh, I said checking it was easy, but I seem to be utterly incapable of fixing it for some reason.  I've tried 3 times, with gasket material, and even replacing the entire top half with a custom fiberglass piece, but I just do it really really wrong every time, and it starts leaking bad again within a week  :-[  I'm just going to replace the sucker with a solid one piece unit, but I can't be bothered to make it right now since I'm running well enough capped.

To sync them just fill the bottom of a U of clear tubing with ATF, don't bother playing around with the vacume guages.  The simple diferential monometer works just fine, there's been plenty of dicussion about that in the past.

[h2olawyer]

When repairing the YICS, it is critical to get all mating surfaces on the two halves very flat, true & smooth.  I got some sticky backed sandpaper & attached it to a small pane of glass.  As the cut I made with the band saw was actually fairly straight to begin with, I started with 150 grit paper & finished with 300 grit.  I used hi heat & fuel resistant gasket material (available at most auto parts stores for very little $$), and to finish off the seal, I had some Permatex copper lying around.  It has been working great for 1,500+ miles so far.  If, or more likely when, it fails again, I'll most likely use aviation form a gasket on the mating surfaces.  Also, the cross bracing on the gasket (as shown on Lucky's fix) is definitely recommended.

The screws also need seals on them.  I'm sure the top two require them but don't think it's necessary on the bottom one.  That is another (often overlooked) source of leaks on the YICS box.  As mine were in good shape, I didn't need to replace them.  I'm sure somebody out there knows of a suitable replacement.

As I recall, Lucky now has an updated fix using epoxy rather than a gasket & sealer but I'll let him describe it.

I've tried 3 times, with gasket material, and even replacing the entire top half with a custom fiberglass piece, but I just do it really really wrong every time, and it starts leaking bad again within a week

This is why I thought it would be a good idea to eliminate the YICS first, do the carbs - get it running right & then do the YICS repair.  That way, when you reinstall the YICS into the system, you can be sure that the carbs are not still part of the problem.

H2O

[DancinOn1Wheel]

**UPDATE**

YICS system hooked up: Bike runs like ass

YICS system unhooked: Bike still runs like ass but is WAY more consistant and predictable.

so after unhooking the YICS, i still have a hesitation when i twist the trottle, but thats all it is now, is a hesitation, it doesnt die anymore when i try and twist the throttle. it revs good and smoothly. However, its still hangs a little when you rev but comes down much quicker and doesnt just sit up at high rev anymore. when it comes down, it almost dies but stays running.

i also cut the rev limiter wire and that seemed to help. when it would rev up and come back down and die before, it sounded like the rear cut out, but now it doesnt.

i still have a problem though as it still is very slow to come down from a rev... im kinda thinking it is still a vaccume leak so i will be testing for that next.

that and it seemed that the vaccume was pretty high, but i dont know what it is suposed to be... anyone on here know off hand??? mine was pulling a good consistant 12 Hg form both sides... that just seems high to me but correct me if i am wrong...

thanks in advance for more help

- Justin

[QBS]

More vacume is much better than less.  Before you go any farther, make certain that your carbs are well sychronized.  Poor carb synch will produce the symptoms you are reporting.

[DancinOn1Wheel]

Ok, so after further investigation, i have discovered that the carb boots (carb to motor) are horendously cracked with SEVERE leaks.

anyone know if Yamaha still makes these? if not, any aftermarket replacements??? if not that, anyone got a good set they would be willing to part with? If all else fails, i might have to take them off, break out the silicone and do my best to seal them up from the outside.

- Justin

[h2olawyer]

Looked on both the Yamaha & Power Sports Pro websites - couldn't find the intake boots.  However, there is a fix.  Go to http://www.xz550.com/tip.html on Lucky's site & read tip #3.  May not be a perfect replacement but it is a workable inexpensive solution.

H2O

[louthepou]

A few years ago, I also tried a quick and not that elegant fix for this.

I removed the two intakes boots (?), cleaned them thoroughly, and covered the exterior with hi-temp silicone. It worked, but it looked aweful.

Louis

[DancinOn1Wheel]

A few years ago, I also tried a quick and not that elegant fix for this.

I removed the two intakes boots (?), cleaned them thoroughly, and covered the exterior with hi-temp silicone. It worked, but it looked aweful.

Louis

that is what i was thinking... but i like the bike tube idea, i think i will maybe try a combo of both. thanks guys

i'll keep you updated.

- Justin