My Vision Saga and Starter Troubleshooting

[KyleMCMXC]

Here's the background: I bought my '82 Vision 1 yr. and 8 months ago. Ever since then it has been plagued with problems. Being that I was a first time buyer the old owner had an easy task hiding all of the bike's flaws. To start with, my stator didn't work at all from day 1. I eventually decided that all that needed to be done was beyond my level of ability and I brought it to a local shop with a good reputation (I tried a Yamaha dealer first, but they will not work on bikes older than 15 yrs). The first trip through the shop got me a new stator and head bearings (the steering was terrible but I had no basis of comparison at first). I was about halfway home when the bike started to run extremely rough and want to stall. When I arrived home, I found that it was also leaking oil from the left side cover (apparently the mechanic had not replaced the gasket when he should have). I called the shop and he had me bring it back. He told me that the rear cylinder was dying while I was riding it and I needed a new TCI to fix this. I consulted the forum, ordered one from Ignitech, and delivered it to him hoping for the end of my problems. He took forever, but finally called and said that the new TCI was in and the gasket was replaced but the problem was "better" but still persisting and it had him "scratching his head". Fast forward several months where he kept telling me he would look at it "next week" over and over and I finally get news. It's worth noting here that he had been very apologetic all along and had agreed to charge me "practically nothing" to fix the remaining issue - I think this made him feel like he could just work on the bike any time he pleased and could stop treating me like a real customer.

The beginning of May 2014 rolls around and he claims that he has now completely cleaned and rebuilt the carburetor and the problem is now gone but  it's running really rich at idle so he needs to get some new pilot jets.

I wait another week, and the day had finally arrived, over a year since it first went into the shop, and I'm on my way to pick up my bike. The mechanic proudly walks out to my Vision sitting in front of the shop and goes to start it for me as I walk up. *click* The button makes a noise but the bike doesn't start. He grumbles that this has happened "once or twice" and he goes and grabs a big socket wrench and taps the starter and the bike starts right up. He explains that I'll eventually need a new starter, but I should be good for "a few more months". At this point the bike is warmed up and he charges me a seemingly arbitrary amount ($250) and I head off. His last comment is "Oh! It's REALLY low on gas, so you're going to want to get some right away." I roll my eyes and head down the road to he nearest gas station and fill it up. I go to start it: *click* *prayer* *click* *curse* *click* *vroom!* Ok, here we go! I'm riding my bike home finally! Woo hoo! I successfully make it home after enjoying my now more nimble-feeling, steadily-running, battery-charging, bike. I park it and cut the engine and try to start it once more to see how it goes and...nothing.

So, for the last few weeks this is how it's sat. On 2 or 3 occasions I've bitterly bump-started it to go for a short ride fearing that I'd somehow stall it and end up being "that guy" enlisting the help of passing motorists to get my bike running, but I got lucky.

Now, I'm at a loss. I don't know the first thing about bikes, particularly when it comes to electrical, but I want so badly just to ride for the summer. This had been a nightmare and I'm not sure how much longer I can go before I just give up. I'm thinking I'd like to at least TRY fixing this myself since me blundering around in the parking lot of my apartment will probably take less time than letting this supposedly reliable and knowledgeable mechanic fix it again.

Here's what I know: My battery is good, my TCI is new, my stator is good, and all other electrical appears to function properly. The bike also runs just fine once it's started. When I go to start it I hit the button and it makes a click noise as well as what I would describe as hissing sound.

Here's what I want to know: Where do I begin troubleshooting? Googling has told me I may want to rebuild the starter and and it could be filled with oil. How do I know? Are there any writeups on this? Is there anywhere I can get a completely new one for a reasonable price? Is it possible this is a problem outside the starter and if I replace it I'll still be stuck with a lawn ornament?

[fret not]

First thing to do is disassemble the starter SOLENOID, it's down by the battery.  It is the cylindrical object with two very large cables attached (one comes from the battery and the other goes to the starter), and two very small wires.  The little wires make the electro-magnet work, which pushes the internal stuff to make contact for the heavy electrical load that goes through the big cables to the starter motor.

Inside there is an electro-magnet that draws a slug against a copper disc and pushes it against two contacts.  these contacts and the copper plate become 'dirty" from electrical arcing, which causes a bit of unwanted 'insulation'.  You need to clean off the "dirty" stuff so metal of the copper disc makes good contact with the two contact points.  It's pretty simple.

If your solenoid is the crimped together type you will need a different solenoid because you can't take it apart.  Usually they are held together with a couple machine screws.

[KyleMCMXC]

Thanks for the reply fret! Are you telling me that you DO NOT think I have an issue with the actual starter? Or are you just saying this is the first place I need to look?

[fret not]

First place to look.  There is a guideline I like to follow: check the easy and obvious stuff first.

The clue is the click, which means the starter button on the handlebar is working.  The click comes from the solenoid as the electro-magnet slaps the copper disc into the two contacts.  Make sure the circuit works at least that far and then if the starter doesn't work we go a bit farther down the line and check the starter.  If you have an ohmmeter it can be helpful in diagnosing the circuits by reading the voltage at the connections (solenoid, starter, etc.)

[KyleMCMXC]

I do have an ohmmeter, so I'll give this a shot and return with my results in a few days as long as the weather cooperates.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I wouldn't use an ohmmeter to measure voltages
Volt meter for voltages; ohmmeter for resistance.  Multimeter for either depending on the setting.

[KyleMCMXC]

I wouldn't use an ohmmeter to measure voltages
Volt meter for voltages; ohmmeter for resistance.  Multimeter for either depending on the setting.

I'm not sure what Fret meant exactly, but when he said ohmmeter I interpreted it as multimeter haha

[QBS]

1)check vdc @ battery.  You need to see min. of 12.6.  More is always better. 2)activate starter button and simultaneously check vdc @ solenoid small wires.  You need to see battery vdc.  Might see a little less due to wiring/connector resistance, but should be very close.  3)activate starter button and simultaneously check vdc @ starter motor + attachment lug.  Use the engine for the - side of the circuit.  Should see almost same vdc as battery showed.

If all of the above checks out as desired but starter doesn't turn,  high probability of oil filled starter exists.  Read the numerous and voluminous posts on this forum to learn of the fix.  It is not difficult figure out, and once the starter is sorted out, the fix is almost permanent.

[fret not]

 :-[Yes, I meant a multimeter.   :-[  And yes, it is good to be specific.