Front brake problem

[Jon]

So maybe I spoke too soon when I said my brakes were completely rebuilt...
My front brake was half disconnected and full of crud when I got the bike, so I took it all apart and cleaned it out and put it all back together.  I added fluid to the master cylinder and worked the lever furiously but to no avail.  I can't seem to get any pressure to build up in the system. :-/
I've tried squeezing the brake, opening the bleed, then closing the bleed and letting out the brake... over and over...still nothing.  Not even a little resistance in the lever.
What am I doing wrong, fellas?

[h2olawyer]

Jon -

It could be any of several things.  Your master cylinder may need cleaning like your caliper did.  They can usually be cleaned just fine using new brake fluid.  I also always have a couple cans of spray brake cleaner.  Great cleaning solvent - it leaves mo residue.  If the rubber parts are torn or otherwise shot, rebuild kits are available.

Your brake hose could be shot - You would probably feel resistance on your lever for that so I think it's unlikely.

Brake bleeding on most motorcycles - Visions in particular - is difficult to do alone.  Try to find a speed bleeder.  It is a special one way valve that replaces the bleed fitting at the caliper.  Another, more expensive, option is to use a vacuum bleeder tool.

I managed to get mine bled by myself.  I did it by working very slowly.  

Put the correct size box end wrench on the bleed fitting.  Connect a clear hose to the fitting.  This keeps the wrench in position on the fitting even after you let go of it.  Run the hose to a collection bottle - I use an old pickle jar.  Cover the front of the bike with a garbage bag to protect the paint.  I taped mine in place with painter's masking tape.  Cover the fender as well, just to be safe.  Clean off the entire master cylinder area.  Wrap a clean rag around the master cylinder so it stays in place, leaving the cover accessible.  Remove the cover.  Pump the lever 2-3 times.  Keeping the lever pressed, open the bleed fitting just a very small amount and let the pressure slowly release from the lever.  This is where the clear tubing is helpful - you can see when the fluid starts to run out of the fitting.  You can also see when the air bubble(s) come out.  While still keeping the lever tight to the grip, close the fitting.  Repeat numerous times.  After every 2 - 3 cycles, pour a little more clean, new brake fluid into the master cylinder.

Mine was easy to tell when I'd replaced all the fluid - the old stuff I was replacing was fairly discolored.  I kept at it until all I got was clean, new fluid at the bleed fitting.  I ran most of a small bottle of fluid through to try to clean out as much of the line as possible.  It took a full afternoon - about 3 hours - but I now have a very responsive front brake that takes very little effort to use.

If you can spare the time, you should look into replacing your line with a braided stainless one.  Galfer and Spiegler are the best places to start.  They don't make Vision specific lines but they do have custom parts to make one that will fit perfectly.  That is an upgrade I'll be doing later this summer.

H2o

//www.galferusa.com
//www.spieglerusa.com

[Rick G]

I do this for a living and some front brakes can be a pain , get a  vacuum  bleeder , there about 25/30 bucks , but its money well spent.

[Jon]

Thanks guys.  I guess I just need to do a more thourough cleaning of the parts...  I will take it all apart completely and do it again.  I never took out the plunger in the master cylinder... and I bet that is the problem.
H20-  Looking forward to our peak-to-peak run...

[h2olawyer]

Hi Jon -

Brakes are not only tricky, they are critical! ?A periodic, thorough cleaning is mandatory.

A Peak to Peak would be great. ?Looking forward to riding with another Visionary. ?Checking the member map, I was beginning to get lonely! ?;D

Had planned to ride mine to Steamboat on Thursday, and returning Saturday. ?Went to a water law conference up there. ?Thought it would be a great ride and save me tons in gas money. ?With the rain we're having, I decided to take the truck. ?Good thing. ?Rained fairly heavily on me for the first 100 miles and then a couple more good storms after that. ?Coming home was dryer but still some wet roads and rain. ?Also ran into a few snowflakes on top of Cameron Pass (10,000ft.) Thursday - nothing sticking but it was cold up there. ?Would have frozen my @$$ off!

Not complaining - we need the water! ?There will be other days for great rides.

H2o

[gbranche]

Also ran into a few snowflakes on top of Cameron Pass (10,000ft.) Thursday - nothing sticking but it was cold up there. ?Would have frozen my @$$ off!

I rode to the top of Mt. Evans (14,000+ ft.) last year on the GTS. If you need a break from the summer heat, that's the place to go. It was around 28 deg. F. at the summit, and closer to 88 in Denver. :)

Greg

[h2olawyer]

Greg -

Can't beat those high peaks to get out of the heat.  I've been on top of a couple 14'ers (hiking) when it was around 80F up there.  Granted, it was over 100F in Denver the same time.  Not a common occurrence but it does happen.  Anything above 9,000 ft. usually gets you into more comfortable air.

It was only about 60F when I left Ft. Collins and knew they had closed Trail Ridge Road in recent days because of hazardous, winter driving conditions.  Thinking I might run into some icy corners in shady areas on top of the rain & possible snow made the decision an easy but disappointing one to make.

How did your GTS run @ that altitude?  I find the V loses a fair amount of oomph above 10,000ft.  That's no big deal as most speed limits on roads that high are around 35 MPH anyway.

[gbranche]

How did your GTS run @ that altitude? ?I find the V loses a fair amount of oomph above 10,000ft. ?That's no big deal as most speed limits on roads that high are around 35 MPH anyway.

The fuel injection on the GTS provided enough "oomph", as long as I was patient after turning the throttle grip. There was a noticeable lag between twist and power delivery that I can only attribute to the thinner air passing through the air flow sensor. Smooth corners were definitely a challenge until I learned to anticipate the lag. I've been told that carbureted bikes are actually better at altitude than fuel injected ones, but, as I was with a group of other GTS riders, there was no one with which I could verify that.

Here are some pics for your enjoyment:

http://homepage.mac.com/gbranche/2003_GTS_Rally/2003%20GTS%20Rally/index6.html

Greg

[h2olawyer]

Great pics, Greg!  I see you also went over Independence Pass and into the Aspen area.  Did you go through Leadville?  That's one of my favorite places in Colorado.  I've kind of had a desire to move there so I could say I practice law before the highest court in the land! ;D

Interesting to hear about fuel injection.  I've always assumed FI would be better @ higher altitude with it's ability to alter fuel mixture automatically.  The jetting on my bike is now just a little leaner than stock - 120 front main & 125 rear with 135's in both air jet ports.  Just did that a week ago so I haven't had a chance to see if it will improve things at high altitude.  Should be better.

I didn't get over Trail Ridge Road (12,000 ft.) last summer after I got her running great but I did go over the Snowy Range Road in southern Wyoming at a bit over 10,000 ft.  Noticed just a hint of stumble or throttle lag if I was too aggressive with the right wrist.  Smooth riding technique really helped out with that.

H2o