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My carb build/education/satisfaction

Started by akvision, June 02, 2009, 03:00:55 AM

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akvision

So, here I am with a perfect running "V" so I am told.  (in denver)

So I want to learn about these mysterious "v" carbs.. I get a set of "unmolested" units.  first try, I have to send them back. they have been raped numerous times... the I snag a set of perfect unmolested units.  clean on the outside and the screw heads are perfect and the jets are visually perfect.  No big rust issues.  ( a set of 82's)

I get the rebuild kits and begin to knaw at the screws.  Yamaha must have made the heads out of clay.  They were very tough to get undone.  The driver mashed them.. I had to be saved by a small vice-grip.  patience and liquid wrench saved the day.. will get replacements on the re assemble.  ( Have developed a great respect for Rhpaw's discussion about frustration with the "V")  But , I am older and wiser. So I have patience and this is just a puzzle to work!

I have one completely apart (rear) and soaking now.. The jets were rear 120 top jet and 130 lowermain the idle screw was set at 2.75 turns out.   The jets brass screws were tough and mashed by the time I got them out... not much margin for error... the wrong driver will kill the deal, it seems like only one try is allowed.   

Maybe RickG will weigh in on this.  Some will be tougher than others.. that is the challenge after all, isn't it?

I love to prevail after a tough screw.   ( that is not what it sounded like.)  The rear unit is all apart and soaking for the night.

too be continued..................
1960 BMW R-50 "Hanz" reborn April 24, 2009 , Ketchikan
1982 "V" AKBluv, Denver, traded for BMW R1100S
1977 BMW R75/7, "Gertie"
1977 BMW R75/7, Green Lantern Cafe Project
Deep In the INSIDE PASSAGE, Alaska

h2olawyer

Don't let the carb sit in the dip too long - the butterfly seals will get destroyed.  Unless you took the butterflies out - which is not recommended because it is possible to lose one or more of the tiny screws down into the intake.  They're tough to get properly tightened after being taken apart.  That said, I did take mine apart many years ago & they're still holding fine.  (knocking on wood)

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Rick G

AK, I have an advantage , in that I have dipped hundreds of Mikuni and Keihin carbs.
Every set I have done has had stuck screws, some times prebuggered up by others. I use a hammer impact , with a small tip and occasionally use a dremel cutoff wheel to cut the heads off . The shaft of the screw is much easier to get out them.
I usually do replace  50 to 75 % of the screws when I do a set. It has to look professional when I'm done.
Many carbs have jets that the markings are obliterated and I replace all of those . (I use a jewelers loup to read them)
I cut new bowl gaskets  for them too.
I'll install Sirus kits , if there sent along , but I toss the jets , there not accurate.
There's much more than meets the eye in rebuilding Vision carbs.
I won't do '83 carbs , I just don't have and bad ones for parts , there too rare. I think their over rated anyway.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

akvision

Thanks for the comments.  The units are really not to bad.  will rplace the screws. Carbs still smell of gas. Some of the openings have a green greasy film. (pariffin?) Not dry and crusty.  Anyway all apart in separate bins... one interesting thing is the set up I found, in particular the jets installed.  It was as follows:
Front carb/ main top = 135, main bottom = 130, idle set @ 3.25 out
Rear carb/  main top = 120, main bottom = 130 , idleset @ 2.75 out
The manual says main top = 130/front bottom= 122.5 & rear bottom 127.5

So what do you think was going on here?

All passages clean and functional so far.
I am going to set up for stock on re-assembly and set idles at 2.5 out to start and tune.

Will take another couple of days before I re-assemble.  Thanks for your interest.

Testing will be on Rhpaw's schedule.
1960 BMW R-50 "Hanz" reborn April 24, 2009 , Ketchikan
1982 "V" AKBluv, Denver, traded for BMW R1100S
1977 BMW R75/7, "Gertie"
1977 BMW R75/7, Green Lantern Cafe Project
Deep In the INSIDE PASSAGE, Alaska

inanecathode

The reason the screws are hard to get out, and why apparently rick cuts the heads off them (???) is because noone uses the proper tool. You need an impact driver with the proper bit on hard to remove or stuck screws.
It's like taking the case screws out of mid 70s japanese bikes with a hand screw driver. It wont work, and it'll cheese the heads over in a hurry.
I think i bought my impact from harbor freight for 8 bucks.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Rick G

I have used the correct tip on a hammer impact for years , but some screws will self destruct , rather than come loose. I believe is galvanic corrosion.  Two different metals, moisture and an electric current .
I can get them all out, but , rather than risk damage to the carb body , I just cut the heads off , I'm going to replace the screw anyway.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

QBS

#6
I'll never forget the thrill of satisfaction I got the first time I removed a knarly buggered carb screw with my small vice grips.  It was a concept I had conjured up on my own and I was so pleased.  Now I reach for my vice grips before the impact driver.  They're so much more sure fire and potentially non destructive.

Then I find out that others have also been brilliant as well.  Great minds and all that.

[jh]

Heh, I'm doing my carbs right now and had to reach for the vice gribs a few times. Whoever did mine in the past really mashed the heads. Im trying to find some new ones, anyone know the size of these? And maybe a good place to get some. Most hardware stores around don't have this size.
wow!

akvision

I started out with an impact driver and blam blam and the head looked, well you know Buggered.  I thought soft, clay, cheap crap!.  I grabbed the vice grips and hoped the heads would not twist off.   Some Croil oil and a soak and all came out.

As for replacements, I went down to the local honda Marine/MC place and got replacements.. rhpaw found some stainless ones and they seem bugger proof.

May not get back to assembly till early next week.. I got my orders to get the boat ready for a three day voyage to white reef.
1960 BMW R-50 "Hanz" reborn April 24, 2009 , Ketchikan
1982 "V" AKBluv, Denver, traded for BMW R1100S
1977 BMW R75/7, "Gertie"
1977 BMW R75/7, Green Lantern Cafe Project
Deep In the INSIDE PASSAGE, Alaska

Rick G

JH , most metric motorcycle shops will have them .McMaster Carr , probably does too!
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

YellowJacket!

They feel like aluminum screws.

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

Rick G

There just iradate zink plated steel screws. Carb screws used to be chrome plated, on some bikes. They polish up really well. :D
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

[jh]

Ya I hadn't really looked for them until today. I found them. I called a Yam dealer and asked them the exact size, once I had that it was no prob. 5mil by 16 mil or some thing like that. Getting them tomorrow, hope they're stainless as well.  :)
wow!

inanecathode

For what it's worth, ace hardware sells tonnes of metric screws. You could even get stainless steel socket head screws if you're into that sort of thing :O
It'd be like 12 bucks in screws, but i know of no nicer fastener than a stainless socket head :)
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

akvision

1960 BMW R-50 "Hanz" reborn April 24, 2009 , Ketchikan
1982 "V" AKBluv, Denver, traded for BMW R1100S
1977 BMW R75/7, "Gertie"
1977 BMW R75/7, Green Lantern Cafe Project
Deep In the INSIDE PASSAGE, Alaska

Tiger

#15
Quote from: [jh] on June 05, 2009, 02:12:19 AM
5mil by 16 mil or some thing like that.

:) Ask for...M5 x 16mm, pan head, philips drive screw's...that will impress them ;)

             8).......TIGER....... 8)
ps They are available in Stainless Steel... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

rhpaw

Pop.. Any time I attack a carb I hit the screws and jets with LOTS of Peanut Butter Blaster for atleast 24 hours.

...I suppose I should have told you that a week ago.
03 buell xb9r - angry tractor

akvision

Ok, so all reassembled, clean clean ,new screws and all settings to book specs.. all orfices covered and now in a box off to rhpaw by priority mail.
so son, Happy birthday and a present is coming your way.  If you feel like it, put the set on and see how they run.
Then test it and let me know how it goes... We will send a set to the "blue V for chuckster.
1960 BMW R-50 "Hanz" reborn April 24, 2009 , Ketchikan
1982 "V" AKBluv, Denver, traded for BMW R1100S
1977 BMW R75/7, "Gertie"
1977 BMW R75/7, Green Lantern Cafe Project
Deep In the INSIDE PASSAGE, Alaska