A note about Ethanol in Gasoline.

[Lucky]

When I was a kid growing up in New England, every winter my dad would put a bottle of "Dri-gas" in the tank every other fill up.  This was a product designed, i was told, to remove water from the fuel system & 'burn' it, so the fuel lines wouldn't freeze up in the winter. Dad used it religiously. That car always ran like crap, now I know why.

Ethanol is basically grain or corn alcohol, & has hygroscopic properties, that is, it'll absorb water from the air, similar to brake fluid.  Under ideal conditions, the drygas will absorb any water present. it'll reach it's saturation point & continue to pull water from the air as long as it's present.

At my job and in the side jobs i do (most weeks at least one machine) I work on everything from small 2 stroke blowers to middleweight 4-stroke bikes.  In the last few years I've seen an obvious increase in rusty carbs, & water in the fuel.  I'm not talking about a few globules here, I'm talking a bottom layer of water. Most of the repairs i see are the cause of neglect; not maliciously, just simply, usually, put away with fuel in them, then run, or attempted to run with that same fuel weeks or months later.

Usually water in the tank itself is not a problem (except in our case). simply drain the tank & run with fresh fuel.  The problem comes when the engine is run after sitting long enough for the fuel to draw water.  that water, now somewhat mixed with the fuel contaminates the carbs.  The machine won't run as well as it should, & even though a problem is evident, the performance loss is slight enough that many owners won't think much of it.  Here's where things go bad.  The machine is then put away again, but now there is water contaminated fuel in the carbs where it can interact with steel components, causing rust, or non ferrous metals causing corrosion. Varnished fuel isn't so hard to clean, we have good chemicals nowadays, dissolving rust is another matter...

Conventional wisdom has us filling our tanks in the winter for storage, so that there is no air space for condensation.  When you consider that a 5 gallon tank will contain 1/2 gallon of ethanol, the problem here should be obvious...  would you put a half gallon of any additive to your tank? I didn't think so....

So here's what i preach to each and every customer with a fuel powered engine:
If you don't plan to use the engine in the next month (it takes 2-3 months to accumulate a significant amount of water, but after a month your gonna forget), DRAIN THE TANK! Then either manually drain the carbs or run out the remaining fuel at idle.  if your especially conscientious, use a little Sta-bil in that last little bit of fuel.

I have nothing against E-10 for everyday use, or against farmers, oil companies (much) or anyone else.  My point is on preventative maintenance.  We have enough problems with our carbs, this one is easy to avoid.

--Lucky

[Brian Moffet]

It all makes sense now.  In California, they just recently changed the formulation of the fuel.  This lead to a temporary increase in prices, but that wasn't a problem since I get 40 mpg or so...  But then the prices started going back down, which tends to indicate that the transition is done, and most of the gas stations are pumping the new formulation.

And what do you know, the fog disappears.  The alcohol in the fuel is absorbing it!

[Kevin]

Great advice Lucky,I would also add you can get good gas at your local airport. Fill your tank up for winter and next spring it will start.

[YellowJacket!]

I just read an article in Rider magazine in the tech section where a guy wrote in about how big a difference he gets when running regular gas and an ethanol mix.  The Tech Guy that responded agreed that you will get significantly worse gas mileage with ethanol/gas than regular gas.

David

[Tiffanator]

Pretty much all of the gas stations here have gone to a 10% ethanol blend. Come to think of it... I have been thinking something is wrong with the mapping (or engine) on my Z1000 because the fuel mileage went from just over 100 to a tank down to 85. Remapped it and got back up to 95. I think my mileage began to suffer about the time all of the stations started using ethanol. That's it! I'm building a diesel Vespa to get 150 mpg on McDonald's cooking oil! Who's with me?!? Mmmmm.... french fries.  ;D

[Re-Vision]

About five years ago we vacationed in Canada and went through Iowa on the way, couldn't understand why unleaded and the next higher octane rated gas were the same price until I figured out that the higher octane gas had Ethanol in it.  Wish Texas would give us a choice like that, all ethanol does is raise the price of tortillas for Mexicans and those of us who love Mexican food.  Governments are just plain stupid.  BDC

[QBS]

Think of ethonal as a low energy liquid filler.  It takes up the same space as gasoline but contains approx. 10% less energy by volume than gasoline.  Therefore the end user suffers a decrease in fuel economy.  The bottom line is that, penny for penny, ethonal fortified fuel delivers less bang and costs more in the long run.  A dirty little secret that the corn lobby and the EPA/federal government would rather no one knew about.  Don't even think about the extra irrigation water being used to increase corn production and the rise in corn prices to other corn and corn related product users.

[inanecathode]

Ethanol is the devil until you learn what MTBE does when it gets into the water table.
I'll take ethanol and psychosomatic performance issues over poisoning the water table any day :)

[Lucky]

i don't mind the debate, but keep in the back of your mind the point of my artical was for storage purposes.  :)

[seabee]

I also heard you can get ethanol free gas at your local marina..if you have one.

[Tiffanator]

Storage? Whats that? You mean people store their bikes for winter? Interesting concept.  :D

[Night Vision]

the reason you can find the good stuff at marinas is probably because fiberglass boat tanks were turning to   :o goo  :o with the "Enhanced" gas

you may want to think about starting to use the new green marina stabil because of possible deterioration of rubber bits in the fuel loop.

its like $10 for an 8oz bottle... one oz will treat 10 gals for everyday protection... one oz per 5 gals for extended storage..

that works out to be around fiddy cents a fill up for your Vision....

I've also heard (rumors?) that this "new" gas doesn't like to burn after a month or two... are you having trouble starting your Vision lately?  ::)

[YellowJacket!]

Storage? Whats that? You mean people store their bikes for winter? Interesting concept.  :D

In places where we HAVE a winter.  ;-)

David

[inanecathode]

Storage? Whats that? You mean people store their bikes for winter? Interesting concept.  :D

Yeah seriously, mountainous winter wonderland sure sucks



:D

[YellowJacket!]

Sweeet.

That your driveway?
:-)

David

[seabee]

Sweet is right! That road looks like it would be a blast to ride!

[akvision]

It is his driveway!  I have been there.

[Rick G]

That's why I moved to AZ, I've only got so many miles left in me and I don't want my riding interupted by winter , in all its various iterations.

[motoracer8]

 Ethanol in the fuel is not good for the older bikes. It wrecks the floats in carburetors, I've seen it happen to some Japanese carbs, Amals, and Delortos with plastic floats. It desolves the resin in fiberglass fuel tanks, and makes plastic tanks grow. And promotes rust in steel tanks. BMW, Moto Guzzi, Ducati, and a few others have issues with Aceribs manufactured fuel tanks on new bikes because the ethanol in the fuel attacks the plastic.

  Ken G.

[inanecathode]

I dunno, some states have been using ethanol since the earth was cooling, i know at least in colorado i've *never* heard of our ethanol attacking anything. Im sure people have had gas tanks de-laminate but ethanol compared to gasoline and mtbe isnt even half as caustic or aggressive with composites. Most the ethanol stories come from places that either dont use it, or havent very long.