Another year....another battery. UGH!

[YellowJacket!]

Ok, some bikes eat stators, mine eats battery's.  I have replaced my battery every spring for the last 5 years.
Heres whats going on:
Been on the trickle charger (battery tender jr.) for the last few months.
Electrolyte levels are between the lines.
Battery is a Walmart battery and is less than one year old

Voltmeter on the bike reads "low"  actual volt meter reads 7.4 volts.
Hooked it up to the craftsman battery charger and it puts out 13 or so volts but reads zero amps.
Trickle charger says "charged".  Off the charger I get 7 volts.
I checked my charger wiring and even measured the voltage on the charger and its fine.

What gives?  I guess this time I'll buy one of the expensive Gell battery's.

Damn, and its a beautiful 70 degrees out.  Supposed to be the same tomorrow.

David

[Night Vision]

off hand I'd say you got a bad egg, but five in a row seems pretty suspicious.....

first, I would change brands... mikes XS has AGM batteries for a decent price, a YUSA makes some good sealed units, as does interstate..

secondly, follow the "start up" instructions for a new battery to the letter.... if the manufacturer says charge for 12 hours at 1.5 volts, then do that... don't charge at 2 volts for 12 hours  :(

thirdly, do the electrolex tests to make sure your entire charging system and separate componets are operating correctly... I confess at not being very educated as far as electronics go, so ask the expert or phone a friend..

fourthly, if that's even word, I would monitor your battery throughout the riding season..... is there a noticeable drop in the batteries capability to hold a charge? usually, they will rest for a day or three at 12.5-12.6 volts...

fifth?, stop constantly using a battery tender junior.... just take the battery out and place it in a cool place during the off season. charge it once a month with the junior just to keep it honest..... that's just my experience with battery storage... take it FWIW.

oh yeah, if all else fails.... buy a new stater soleniod... everyone says its just a relay / on off switch to regulate the voltage to the starter, but I had an evil one that made my bike run like shit and maybe thats where your gremlin hides

[Lucky]

I don't know if it's possable with ours, but years  ago, the electronic voltage regulators in cars could fail in such a way that they were allways 'on' even when the car was off. they would draw juice from the battery, even just sitting. very similar to a glovebox or trunk light staying on all the time.

how do you tell?  the test is simple:
unhook the negative wire from the battery, hook a TEST LIGHT, not a dvom, between the negitive post & the negitive wire. if something is 'on' (door open, etc) the light would glow.

then you'd start pulling fuses till the light went out. that would tell you what curcit was at fault, then you narrow it down from there.  Fords were notorus for shorted glove box light switches...

try this on the bike, if the light glows, then start pulling fuses. if you pull all the fuses & the light is still on, then you either have a intermitant short or a bad R/R...

--Lucky

[fret not]

Batteries like to be used, small charge and small discharge often.  If used every day I have seen them last for up to 7 years, but if they sit idle for periods they tend to deteriorate and sulfate.  Once that white sulfation is on the plates it is permanent loss of that area as far as making electricity.  Since many of us are fair weather riders the batteries will suffer some.  Better quality batteries should last much longer than the cheap ones.  Yuasa has always made good batteries, but they made more than one quality level.  The better ones are usually more expensive.

[akvision]

Brilliant Lucky!
+3 for all the posts.

find the problem before you sink big bucks in an expensive battery.

[Walt_M.]

First, I do not use a battery tender full time. When I got my '83 back on the road in 2003, I put a new Yuasa in it. Cost about $65. That lasted about 18 months, my typical experience with Yuasa. Bought a wallyworld battery for $35 and it lasted 5 yrs and I replaced it with the same last year. I put a sealed wallyworld in my TDM 4 yrs ago and it is still going. I think Tiger will second my wallyworld experience.

[Tiger]

... I think Tiger will second my wallyworld experience.

...and I do Walt 8) I run "across the river" about every 4 to 6 weeks (shopping with the wife!!) and while I'm there I pick up batteries for my rebuilds...which I also have on "The Mistress", which sits on a battery tender for 4 - 5 months over the winter (bought at Wallmart to!!)...and I have had no problems at all.

Dave, you have to have a problem somewhere in the system to knock out batteries on such a regular basis :-\ Hunt out that gremlin my friend...

                  8).......TIGER....... 8)

[YellowJacket!]

Thanks all.  You make a good point Tiger.  Maybe my battery is acting as a fuse for a bad stator or R/R.

Left it on the trickle charger overnight.  At first it was saying "charged" but after a while it switched over to "charging" which I thought was good.  This morning the red "trouble" light is lit. I can hear bubbling and the battery is warm (in a cold garage).  I checked the voltage and off the charger its reading 10.4 volts.

Funny thought...could it have been the filpping battery tender all along that has killed the battery's?

David

[inanecathode]

1) Storage temperature

2) Electrical load on the bike

Both solved by taking the battery out and putting it inside on the trickle charger alone.

[ps2/bikevision]

dave, it very well could be the charger. i had one a few years ago that had a boost setting on it for jump starting. i had always used that one because it charged faster, till my dad barrowed it and then told me it wasent comming off boost. it was supposed to be automatic but was putting out 50 amps all the time. i dont remember why he tested it.

i also had a yusa battery in my FZR that had boiled complety dry on a ride one time. i mean not a drop of acid left in there. i put regular tap water in it just to see what would happen and after a day on the trickle charger it came back to life. a little lower that normal but that FZR always started good, i used that battery for another year till i sold the bike.

[YellowJacket!]

I think one  of the cells is bad.  It is off the bike and has been on the trickle charger (no boost mode) all day.  The trouble light eventually went out and the charging light stayed lit but the battery won't go beyond 10.4 volts.  So, I'm guessing that I'll be needing a new battery.
The thing that really sucks is that my HDD just died on my main computer and I had to buy a new drive for it, so the battery has to wait until I can either sell something or beg my wife to let me take out the cash to get another battery (not likely).  She's kinda pissed that this is like my 4th or 5th battery.

David

[akvision]

yeah, well. :( :-\

[fret not]

The charging system is pretty simple, unlike the ignition system.  Pretty simple to check the stator and wires, and also check your Reg/Rec to see if it is properly functional.  Get a late model Reg/Rectifier with MOS/FET instead of SCR diodes.  They are nearly, but not quite, universal in application and generate much less heat than the SCR type.  Visions have a 3 phase (3 wire) stator and function like many other bikes.  Check out the comments about the Reg/Rec upgrade here and on eviltwinsbk.com in this regard.  Stator to Reg/Rec to battery.  That is the charging system.

My opinion is the stators are the victims of the dead or weak battery and the Reg/Rec gets damaged in the process, then the stator gets fried.  There are many bikes that use the same stator.  Well, similar, same stator but with different lengths of leads and plug configurations.

Something in your system gives up and loads the rest of the system until some other component is overloaded and the cascade begins.  The weakest link . . . .

[inanecathode]

Every cell should be 2.1 volts (6 cells, ends up being 12.6 volts optimum). If you're showing a surface charge of 10.5 volts you likely have a dead cell. Take your meter (you... do have a meter don't you?) put the neg on the neg on the battery, then take the positive and dip it (or just put a piece of foil so you can reach) into each cell. You'll find the dead one pretty fast. Doesnt do anything for you, but its still fun.

[Walt_M.]

Another thing to check on your charger. Put your voltmeter on AC volts and check while your battery is charging. If you see AC volts that means the output filter on your charger is either not very good or going bad. Too much AC will kill the battery. Side note, a little AC can desulfate a sulfated battery.

[YellowJacket!]

Inane and Walt, Thanks.  I tried both of your suggestions and heres what I got:
Walt, Battery off bike and hooked up to charger give 10.5 volts on battery.  Off battery I get 13.5 volts DC.  On AC setting I get zero volts across the battery terminals while charging.
Inane, my results from your idea were kind of perplexing.  With the battery off the charger and the VM neg probe connected to the neg terminal of the battery, I get zero volts on cell #1.  For cell #2 I get 1.25v, cell#3 1.91v, cell#4, 4.1v, cell#5 6.1v and cell#6 8.2v.
My guess is that cell #1 is bad and the increasing voltage between each cell is cumulative.  If thats the case then, it looks like cell 1 and 2 are bad.

David

[supervision]

  I just looked up my receipt on my AGM battery. The date is 10-4-02.  At that time it cost me $75 plus tax, no motorcycle supply had them.  I finally found it at a battery supply store, they had it in stock.  They told me charge it only if it gets low, and that is what I have done.  When my bike has been sitting for a few months, and the temperature is 45, I prefer jumping from a car battery straight to the starter post and NOT pushing in, the starter solinoid, so I am powering only the starter motor,  totally isolated from the rest of the bike.

[YellowJacket!]

Went to Advanced Autoparts today to get a part for my son's car and asked about MC battery's.  Told the guy what my problem was and he said that the lead acid battery's are pretty cheap.  They had an AGM battery that fits the Vision for 74.99.  Comes with a two year warranty. (One year full replacement/1 year pro-rated) whereas my wallyworld batt had a 6 month pro rated warranty.
As soon as I get some cash I think I'll get the AGM.

David

[Brian Moffet]

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-76.html#products

You want the CBTX14AHL-BS AGM Battery

Might be cheaper.  He shipped it to me with no problems.

Brian

[YellowJacket!]

Well. good news and good news!  (and not so good news since I just read Brians post about 30 mins too late).

I begged and pleaded with Vicki to let me get the battery and after agreeing to make a small dent in her long honeydo list she released the funds.  Went out and picked up an AGM battery at Advanced and swapped out my old core.  Used a school coupon for another 5.00 off and walked out with my new battery.  Was told that it is fully charged and after checking with my Volt meter, was happy to see that it was.  Installed into YJ while she sat on Prime.
Rolled her out into the driveway and cranked her up.... AND....SHE STARTED ON THE FIRST CRANK!!!!  She has sat all winter and started on the first crank!  I love this bike!
Weather is crappy out right now so hopefully it will be nicer and I can go out for a ride tomorrow.

David