Anyone try a different Regulator/Rectifier to help reduce stator failures?

[davexz]

Well I got these Visions as winter projects and I'm having a problem with accepting the stator weakness I'm reading about everywhere.  I'm thinking what good is a bike if you have to worry about the stator going out all the time- maybe the problem is over state? I guess I'll find out.  Has anyone tried a different Regulator/Rectifier to help reduce the stator failures.  I ran across discussions on using Cycle Electric R&R because they don't shunt the full current to ground but instead controls current flow a different way that reduces heating in the stator and increases stator reliability.  Anyone know about such a thing?  I think they make R&Rs for Harleys.  I might have to give them a call.

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/RECTIFIER.html#CE-600

[fret not]

You might talk with those folks and find out if they know of any potential problems from fitting their stuff on other than an "American made V twin"  they are so proud to serve.  It sounds like they are on the right track.  There are some regulator/rectifiers that now come stock on some Japanese bikes that are made without the silicon chip diode but instead use a MOSFET (metal oxide semiconductor field effect transistor) system and run much cooler than the silicon type.  They can go bad as well as the old kind but reportedly much less often.  The MOSFET units I am aware of are made by the Shindengen company, same one that made most of the silicone RR units that came as stock equipment on many bikes.  The numbers stamped on the units using silicon chips start with SH and the MOSFET units start with FH.  The easiest to adapt to a Vision is the FH008 most often used on a CBR600RR '07 and later and a CBR1000RR '08 and later. 

The charging system is the alternator, regulator rectifier, and the battery.  If any one of those units gets weak it creates extra load on the other parts causing them to possibly fail.  So keep your wires and connections in good condition, your battery charged and healthy, and hopefully the rest of the system will provide many happy K miles for your Vision.

[Raj1988]

davexz, its really not that bad. IMHO the problem is a bit overstated because it is on of VERY few things that can actually STOP an XZ from performing regularly.

[Tiger]

 :) I always say "its not if, but when your stator goes, when you own a Vision". I really don't think that Visions are any worse than a lot of bikes of the era...there are several with the same/similar/worse stator problems.

However, you are dealing with some variables here...

* A lot of times, Visions come to there new owners with a blown stator...Past owner had no idea why his battery kept draining...maybe just didn't really care...maybe just didn't want to shell out for a shop to fix it or had no time/patience/money to fix it themselves, etc, etc... :o ::)

One of the weak links with this area is the cheap, white, three block plastic connector. They have been known to melt...(generally because of lack of preventative maintenance)...and short out the stator. Either make sure the one on your Vision is:
* Clean of ANY corrosion/crud, etc and smeared with dielectric grease (or Vaseline)...
or
* Cut the connector out and replace it with a good quality system
or
* Use solder and heat shrink to hardwire in...Your choice!!

The R/R used on the Vision has been around for years & years...and has functioned well on many different rides. They will, eventually, go south at some point in time........You can either:...
* Go with the same type of unit
or
* Go for something like a MOSFET unit...again, your choice!!

The Vision NEEDS a well charged battery, in good condition. When your Vision comes to you with a battery of unknown age, change it out right away!!! It will save you some heart ache down the line.
Also check the condition of the two main wires coming from the battery...The battery to ground and the starter solenoid to starter...I change these out on ALL my rebuilds as a matter of course!! You can not do proper electrical testing on your Vision with a suspect/weak battery!!!

One of the things you must do, as a new Vision owner, is to disconnect EVERY wire connection on your Vision, clean them really well, smear them in dielectric grease and reconnect. If a connection is bad in some way, replace it immediately!!!

I do believe that regular oil changes help and I'm sure Luck's oil cooler mod will help...(things still to do, one day ;))

What you do to your Vision when you first acquire it, is critical. The right preparation before putting her on the road is vital to having a bad/good/great riding season...and really, when you think about it, this is no different whatever bike you own... ;)



                    8) .......TIGER....... 8)

[davexz]

Thanks all for the feed back on my posts.  I do appreciate it.

[supervision]

 those mosfet r/r could be a possible solution to our short lived stators. I wonder if that is why motoracer8 has, so his stator case is so cool? 

[davexz]

Here is little more about the CE-602 R/R seems to make a lot of sense.  It only uses stator current when needed and doesn't shunt it to ground all the time.  They say all this makes your stator and R/R run cooler. Bingo? Maybe not but I think I'm heading that way for more info. 
http://www.metricthunder.com/img/install.pdf

[fret not]

What sort of price are they attaching to these RR units?  Sounds like it could be just about right electrically.

[AdvRich]

Here is little more about the CE-602 R/R seems to make a lot of sense.  It only uses stator current when needed and doesn't shunt it to ground all the time.  They say all this makes your stator and R/R run cooler. Bingo? Maybe not but I think I'm heading that way for more info. 
http://www.metricthunder.com/img/install.pdf

Looks very promising. If you do go this way it'd be nice to hear your thoughts and experience with it. I've got another '83 and this may be the way to go for the redo. Less stator load should also equate to more usable power and bump in mpg.

What sort of price are they attaching to these RR units?  Sounds like it could be just about right electrically.

$188 + shipping... http://www.metricthunder.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CE-602&Category_Code=

[Raj1988]

Inanecathode got a MOSFET for $25 off ebay! He reported back that it worked real well

[Rikugun]

Inanecathode got a MOSFET for $25 off ebay! He reported back that it worked real well

His was from a CBR1000. Those and the unit from 600 have garnered much attention in Web forums and the Ebay prices reflect that. Prices are typically now in the $70-$100 range. Still a bargain when compare to new FETs purchased directly from Shindengen. You may also want to try Kaw ZX10/14 year?, Yam R1 >/= 07, FJR1300 >/=06. I recall reading about a Yamaha 4x4 quad that used a mosfet but don't remember the particulars. I can't guarantee these applications and advise to check for Shindengen part #'s with the FH prefix. I don't think you'll find anything prior to 2000 and most seem to be later than that.

Keep in mind some of these units will handle up to 50 amps (e.g. FH0014) - overkill for the Vision. They are physically large units and finding a place to mount it becomes more difficult. Also, some don't have pigtails but rather the harness plugs in directly. So if you want to solder your connections you will still need 5 female spade connectors at the R/R.

[fret not]

Last night I found that the MOSFET R/R units do not follow the same testing procedure as our older SCR type.  I followed the info on Lucky's test page and sent a couple back because I thought they didn't work, but now I find they may well have been good all along.   :-[          I was told the MOSFET replaces the diode in one direction and doesn't read the same when tested.  I still have a couple of them and will get them tested, so it looks like I might owe some apologies to the sellers.  Dang, I hate it when stuff like this happens.  Oh well, Life is good.

[Lucky]

can you ask them for testing procedures for the Mosfet type so that we can provide this info to all?

[Rikugun]

That's a great point. I never thought about it but now that fret nut brings it up, it makes sense their different components and architecture will require different tests.

I might owe some apologies to the sellers

If those "sellers" you refer to are Ebay scrapyards or private individuals, might we find better testing info from factory manuals for bikes equipped with the MOSFT units? Just a thought.

[fret not]

I talked with a well regarded local shop and they don't have a test procedure for the MOSFET regulator rectifier units, they have to plug them into a bike and test to see if they work.  It is easy enough to test for charging rate at various RPM, with and without added loads, and that is what matters.

[fret not]

Today I rigged up some test leads to adapt the RR units to fit my SV650 (because the Vision isn't running yet) and all the RR units i have checked good!!!!! Charging rate of 14.1V at idle and all the way up the rev range.  Well, I'm red faced and feel a bit foolish over having argued a bit with a couple sellers but will make amends.  I am happy they work, so now I have one for my SV and one for my Vision.  The units I got are from Honda CBR600RR '07+ and CBR1000RR '08+.  The markings are FH008EE and FH008EB respectively.  Also saw one with FH008AA.  The differences are in the lengths of wires and configuration of plugs.  The EE and EB have only 5 wires, the AA unit has another wire which I'm not sure about but am told they all work.  The neat thing about the FH008 units is they have 2 pig tails just like the Vision unit so all you have to change are the connectors.

Most of the units I find on eBay are over priced but if you check often and keep looking you will eventually find one for $60 or less.  The fellow that wrote the instructional thread with pics on eviltwinsbk.com, goes by the handle D'Ecosse, told me he thought these units don't go bad, that he had not heard of one going bad.  He is also involved with a similar thread at the SVRIDERS site.

Now I have to get the stuff to make weather tight connections on all the wires so I can put all the plastic body parts and seat back on, the Vision is a bit easier to work on in that regard.  Yea Vision! :laugh:

[supervision]

 I read some of those posts, sound like people are digging the results of those r/r's  Can't wait to try one! I bet, the bike will feel free revs, from less drag of the charging system. And of course, the a stator might last more than 10,000 miles! Maybe the stator case will be cooler as a result

[Raj1988]

Question: What has the charging system got to do with freeing revs? Will the fly wheel become more free due to the more efficient changing of the magnetic field?

[Walt_M.]

Nope, as long as the same strength magnet is rotating around the same mass of iron, the drag will be the same. Weren't any of you paying attention in Jr. High science?

[Raj1988]

Faraday's law was more like Sr High in the almost recent  past Walt