Double bugger!!!!

[Tiger]

 :) With the aid of my new-to-me toy, a hydraulic table lift, I have removed the front and rear wheels and equipped 'The Mistress' with a new set of Avon tires for the coming season. Front and rear brakes have been cleaned and checked out... 8)

This morning, I decided to give her an engine oil and filter change. So I fired her up and got the motor up to running temps and drained the oil out......
       
Just before the end of last season, the old girl was getting a wee bit hard to start and was kinda noisy as well :o Soooo, with the oil now drained out, off came the left side engine cover. Next, with the aid of an impact wrench and a puller, I removed the flywheel. Bugger!!! the starter clutch was fractured :o  :( :o Fortunately I had a complete flywheel with starter clutch and new soc' head cap screws on the shelf... ;D ;)
Once back together, I cut out a new side cover gasket, (made out of similar material as the reusable ones some of you guys have bought). Sprayed on a wee bit of copper gasket adhesive and installed the gasket on to the engine...........At this point a did a wee inspection of the stator while I was there. Its been working fine, 13.6 to 14.2 volts. It looked perfect...until I looked at it again!! Double bugger!!!!!! One of the white wires was broken near to the stator :o :o I removed the stator from the engine side cover and striped off the black wire cover for a closer look...WTF!!! One of the other white wires was missing about two inches of its insulation :o :o With a length of new 14g white wire, solder and some heat shrink, I managed to repair both wires 8)

I buttoned her all up again, added fresh oil and a filter, reinstalled the left side lower fairing and fired her up...success 8) 8)

She is charging at 14.2 right off from the start. I let her get up to running temps and shut her down...went back a half hour later to find there were no oil leaks anywhere...fired her up and she was running at 14.2/4 volts.

Next week she will get new spark plugs/wires/caps...... ;)

Damn, I love this hydraulic table lift 8) 8)

8) .......TIGER....... 8)

[Rikugun]

So what was the cause of the broken wire and missing insulation? Was it related to the broken clutch?

[Tiger]

So what was the cause of the broken wire and missing insulation? Was it related to the broken clutch?

:) Hmmmm, good question...something I've pondered on from the start. I really do not see any reason for the broken wire or the missing 2" of insulation from another wire....other than bad workmanship!!!! :o ::)

The three white wires are/were housed in a black sheath cover, which had the broken wire peeping out of it. It wasn't until I cut back the black sheath that I saw the missing insulation on the other wire. There was nothing rubbing/pulling/twisting the wires, sooooooooooo.......Winter stator gremlins perhaps  :o ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

                       8) .......TIGER....... 8)

[Rikugun]

That is odd, kinda makes ya wonder...

Good thing the starter clutch failed....I guess!!??  ???  :)

[Cdnlouie]

You see what happens when you give a guy a bike lift table!  He starts fixing things!

Any indication of the bolts coming loose?  I'm sure you had used locktite and peening.  That should not have happened.

Is that a Tim Perrot stator?  You are reaching the natural limit by now...it's been a while you know.

[Tiger]

Any indication of the bolts coming loose?  I'm sure you had used locktite and peening.  That should not have happened.

Is that a Tim Perrot stator?  You are reaching the natural limit by now...it's been a while you know.

Two of the three bolts had about 1/64" movement (max) from tight....So not really a major reason for the starter clutch to fracture. Everything else was per spec, torque wise.

The stator is a rebuild, but not a Tim Parrot. I originally got it off eBay a few years back, still in its original box.............gave it to 'Art at some point and he gave it back when he sold his Vision's...can't remember who did the rebuild ::) but it was from a well known supplier ;)

Now what else can I 'fix' before the start of the season mmmmmm  ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

8) .......TIGER....... 8)

[fret not]

I'm curious as to the possibility of damaging the starter clutch in the process of banging the ends of the bolts.  It takes a lot of force to mash over the ends of those bolts, and just how much is enough or too much?  I was concerned about that as I hammered and banged until they were obviously wider than the holes they protruded through.  Usually the place the clutch breaks is the thin area at the top of the roller travel.

[Lucky]

Fret nut,
if you cut an "X" in the threaded end of the bolt (or even just a single line)  when you peen the bolt, use a dull pointed drift & spread the cut area open.  you don't actually have to mushroom the end.

note: thread a nut on the bolt before cutting it.  after you cut it, take the nut off, that will straighten up the threads...

[Rikugun]

Tiger, were the mounting holes involved in the fracture(s) or well away from them? I've never had a clutch in my hands and the pics I've seen fall short in showing detail. I'm trying to picture how this thing looked upon disassembly.

Fret Nut mentions a "thin area at the top of the roller travel" as being a typical point of failure. Is that where yours broke?

[Lucky]

you know Tiger, when i first read the title of your post i freaked a bit inside.. i thought you were going to tell us The Mistress fell off the lift!!

[Tiger]

Tiger, were the mounting holes involved in the fracture(s) or well away from them? I've never had a clutch in my hands and the pics I've seen fall short in showing detail. I'm trying to picture how this thing looked upon disassembly.
            Fret Nut mentions a "thin area at the top of the roller travel" as being a typical point of failure. Is that where yours broke?

Its hard to properly describe a starter clutch and I'm one of those people who can't put pictures up on the site ::) :-[  However, if you can imagine a big washer say 4 1/2'' or so in diameter, 1" width, 1/4" thick and the I.D. having three cut outs that take the width from say 1" to 1/2"...its this 'weakened' area that always fractures (when one goes)...That what Fret means. The mounting hole(s) were not part of the problem.

8) .......TIGER....... 8)

[Tiger]

you know Tiger, when i first read the title of your post i freaked a bit inside.. i thought you were going to tell us The Mistress fell off the lift!!

:o AHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOO!!!...I still have nightmares!!!!!!!!! I'm so careful winding it up and down after the last 'spill' from the trailer...infact I use a couple of ratchet straps, just to make sure ;)

                      8) .......TIGER........ 8)

[Re-Vision]

Starter Clutch.    BDC

[Tiger]

 :) Thanks Re-Vision... 8)

[fret not]

"if you cut an "X" in the threaded end of the bolt (or even just a single line)  when you peen the bolt, use a dull pointed drift & spread the cut area open.  you don't actually have to mushroom the end.

note: thread a nut on the bolt before cutting it.  after you cut it, take the nut off, that will straighten up the threads..."


Now you tell me ;D  I have already mushroomed mine.  It will take a grinder to get them out, if they ever have to be removed.  Bur I will remember that if I ever have to do it again.

[QBS]

Fret fret not.  My '83 had its' starter clutch reattached in '84, that's about 65k miles ago, using the mushroom method.  The starter clutch has needed no further attention.  The work was done at an excellent Yamaha dealer that recognized the problem and the fix immediately.  That is where I learned of the repair procedure.  I passed the tip on to ROV as soon as I signed on.

FWIW, I believe the factory used the split bolt technique, but just not aggressively enough.

[fret not]

QBS, thanks for that.  We all are in your debt.

[Lucky]

FWIW, I believe the factory used the split bolt technique, but just not aggressively enough.

Actually, those of us who have taken apart our share of these with the OEM bolts can confirm that all Yamaha did was put a punch mark on one spot between the threads & clutch..

[Rikugun]

Not only that, but they didn't do a very good job of it either. If you look close you can see the threaded hole is not affected by the staking.



I was surprised the factory also uses no threadlocker. Once they were broken free, they spun out easily, with the staking offering no resistance.

[QBS]

Lucky is correct.  How sad that Yamaha created a really wonderful engine design, decades ahead of its' time, only to have it appear to be fatally flawed because of a few minor, but critical, no cost specification mistakes (the starter oil seal and stator connector) and assembly defects (the starter clutch attachment bolt staking).