formerly about cow parts...

[Lucky]

Ok, this board has a problem, and by board I mean ROV as a community.

ROV started as a monthly paper newsletter following a letter in a magazine around 1985.  A few years later it evolved into a bulletin board on a fledgling internet. From there Ron has taken us to a few web addresses to where we are now.

I have read all the old newsletters, and have been a ROV member for 13 or 14 years.  This group has always been about the bike. We all know full well that ROV is unlike any other Forum out there.  Honestly, we really don't need my website, the rest of this website, Dave's ROV facebook page or any other XZ550 related sites. This Forum (I believe) is what makes us ROV  The aforementioned web pages are iceing on the cake. (no, i'm not saying they should go anywhere)

I can't remember any 'flame wars' in our group. Ever.  But, as I said, we have a problem...

Recently many of our conversations, mostly in 'off topic', but not all, have gone off on political tangents.  Ok, that's what 'off topic' is for, except that i've been quietly watching these conversations begin to divide us.  The way things are in this country, and the rest of the world, of course this is a very passionate subject. btw, I personally do like how we are free to go off topic (sometimes way off topic) unlike some boards that are strict about that sort of thing...

People here, whether they admit it or not, are harboring resentment.  This is not good for us. It has nothing to do with XZ550 (and 400) motorcycles.

Now you can say lots of things:  "If you don't like it, don't read it" "can't we all just get along?" "It's called off topic for a reason!" "I was teasing, it was all in fun"  etc, but the point is, it doesn't matter what the reason is, we need to fix this... or things are going to get worse.

So how do we get everyone to agree on a solution?
I would like to propose some calm dicussion to see iif we can reach a consensus.

I have a suggestion:
A 'Gentlemans agreement' to keep politics out of our conversations entirely. I think we are cappable of self governing ourselves. (Ironic ain't it?)

(and if most of you think i'm wrong & there really isn't a problem, then i won't bring it up again unless i end up being right)

What think ye?

[QBS]

Lucky, as you may have noticed, I occasionally participate in "off topic" but only rarely. Therefore, I don't really have a feel for what has led you to broach this subject.

Nevertheless, the reason I avoid "off topic" is that opinions, subjects and biases unrelated to the V are what can be found there.  I don't want to know the personal, not V related, biases of other Forum members that might not align with my own.  I fear that knowing these different biases would affect my enjoyment of other Forum members participation and input in the General and Tech boards and I don't want to risk loosing that.

Even so, enough bias has leaked into the General and Tech boards to dampen my enjoyment and response enthusiasm.

I most certainly would not propose deleting the "off topic" board. I just choose to avoid it.

[fret not]

Lucky, I'm afraid you are right, but a topic like "gas prices" begs political comments.  I'm probably as guilty as some others for responding with political remarks, and I apologize if I have offended anyone.  Thanks for the nudge, I will try to keep more of my political opinions and musings to myself.  One reason for such open comments is that we feel comfortable among friends, at least I do. :-[ ;)

[pullshocks]

I think this is my 5th year.  I log on just about every day.  I've had a lot of help and a lot of laughs.I love reading about everybody's adventures on the road and in the shop,  but from the beginning I have pretty much skipped "off topic".  So I wasn't really aware of what Lucky has brought up.

In real life everyone I know thinks I'm nuts to ride an ugly, slow, skinny-tired, old motorcycle you can't get parts for and breaks down all the time (sound familiar?)  You guys are all I've got.  Let's stick together

[Tiger]

I have to agree with Lucky's sentiments about the ROV and the Bull that seems to have permeated the boards since I joined...especially the 'Off Topic'.

I get no enjoyment from any of the political garbage (from any country) that comes up a lot on here. Politics, race, religion, etc, has absolutely no place on the ROV. All it does is cause infighting...THAT my friends is WRONG!!!

                 8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)

[Rikugun]

Politics are such a part of our daily lives in subtle and not so subtle ways, it may be difficult to completely eradicate even here in our little community. We are a microcosm of society at large and bring our personal beliefs with us when we log on.

I believe poitics is probably the second greatest divisive tool we have in society. When I read Q's comments my first thought was: "that's a cowardly way to be - lets just stick our heads' in the sand and pretend we're not different so as to be more comfortable". But the more I thought about it, maybe he's right. I don't want to contemplate what this says about me as a person but that's another discussion  altogether.  :-\ Perhaps the forums should be kept a safe haven away from the political BS we're forced to endure the rest of our day. It's easier to focus on our "sameness"  - the Vision - when the distractions are removed. Or ignored if you prefer.  :)

Lucky, I agree with you in theory and realize it will take some restraint. I think I can get behind the notion but wouldn't draw the line at politics. I'd include it's insidious twin brother - religion.

[Lucky]

Rikugun, I think of ROV as more like an escape from the pressures of everyday life, kind of like having a room in your house (or in my case, a shop) where I can go to focus & enjoy a hobby with no intrusion from the pressures of the outside world.  

I realise that even in a 'happy place' sometimes those pressures find their way in, and that some people have a harder time diconnecting from the tiring drum of socal pressure than others. I'll put it this way, the last thing i want when i'm greasy up to my wrists in an engine is the phone ringing & it's family or work calling about something i have little or no control over.  i'll call you back after i've showered...

As for religion...baby steps brother, baby steps...  

and to everyone: I do realize i'm being hypocritical considering the current thread in Off Topic, but that's more on a personal level (which doesn't help, I know)

[Rick G]

I enjoy Off Topic a great deal . I take no offence with anyone's opinion. . Does it belong on this forum, good question .
I find I agree with some , don't agree with others. but ocassionally I learn something. 
Occasionally, I take a discussion to PM or email or a phone call. Hey its off topic . After my 14 years on this forum (give or take a few absences)  I know some of you fairly well. Not much you can say that will offend me!

[Lucky]

so we are clear, i'm not suggesting we ask Ron to remove 'off topic'

[Hartless]

It seems that so far it has been a split opinion about the opinionated posts...... And I happen to have a split opinion myself. I understand the aspect of this forum being a nice "get-a-way" from everyday life and that we should not be fighting and such on this forum ( and yes I am guilty Of a couple sarcastic any comments...) but I think that it is not necessarily just off topic that presents a problem, yet more of an interpretation issue. It is especially hard to interpret how people are trying to express themselves via text because there is no tone and or facial expression/body language. I'll have to admit that even a time or two I have felt that someone has been a little opinionated toward me at first but then realize that I formed a false conclusion. So whether or not we should not talk about politics  I don't know (I'm not big on them) but I think that maybe if everyone tried to look at one or two different sides of the opinion maybe that will help them interpret the opinions better. Maybe I just don't see it either because I'm rarely on off topic as well but so far I havnt seem many, if any at all, "heated" discussions

[Rikugun]

Removing "Off Topic" is not the answer. Those inclined will simply choose another forum to exhibit poor decorum.  ;D

I'm surprised some of the more politically active have not chimed in  ???

[iain]

What happened to America land of the free this is starting to sound more like communist China ,If a few here don't agree with someone's opinion let's just remove their area to express themselves.
Some of you are starting to sound like the internet police
Look Guys the easiest way to shut someone's views down,,  that you don't agree with is DONT respond back, then that topic is dead in the water.

Iain
NZ

[Brian Moffet]

If a few here don't agree with someone's opinion let's just remove their area to express themselves.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong, but no one has suggested removing the off-topic forum.  On the contrary, many people have stated that they are not advocating the removal of the off-topic forum.

[QBS]

Iain, I don't think anybody suggested removing Off Topic.

[supervision]

   Iain, missed the part about keeping the offtopic, but that thread only has been takin down.  His besr point is, if it bothers you, dont go their!   Brian, I meant to say thanks for the link on New York Times, I think that guy has it right, about domestic oil production, is not going to do much for price of gas, nor will it solve emeployment problem. I also went to Brenakie, although couldnt see the stream that I thought I might get to.   My Son is quite liberal and one of my desk tops is NY Times.   The one small thing I wanted to bring up is, I might be more inclinded to be a fan of the Federal Reserve, if they would be a little more open with their books.  Maybe, QBS, in his own words, could explain away  some of my dought.   

[Rikugun]

That worked out well. We were politics free for one whole day.  :D  :D  :laugh:

[dcsob]

Hell with it, I'll weigh in.
It used to be you could talk politics even to the point of blows then calm down and shake hands, till the next save the world session be it over coffee or a few (well more than a few) beers.
Being heavily involved in college I didn't really notice it becoming taboo. Once out of school, it seemed if you took a view that didn't mesh with the group think of the crowd you were cast out as a pariah, unclean, leprous, and obviously mentally defective (Democrat/Republican) insert your favorite bully boy here.
Those who try to see both sides of the argument are baffled by the lack of common sense, and the ability of either side to not see the turd in the punch bowl. And for the love of God don't have a memory longer than 90 days because if you bring up something Joe politician said a year earlier you must have made it up from whole cloth.
So here we sit, divided over the most esoteric of issues while the politicians in the gleaming halls of Oz posture in front of the cameras for the benefit?? of the masses. In my observations, once a politician gets to the big house they treat you like the stuff you scrape off your shoe, unless of course you can donate larger amounts to the reelection fund.  When the camera shuts down they go out to drinks and dinner, because lawyers are taught to argue their point vehemently, yet not take it personally.
As was pointed out earlier in the post. The unwashed masses, end up taking it personally, then dislike/hate the other. And in doing so are blinded. We fiddle while the country burns around us.
Label me a cynic if you will. A Tshirt says it all,  I used to get mad, now I'm just amused.

[Tiger]

IF something offends someone, you can hit the... 'Report to moderator' .... and explain why it should be removed ;)

                 8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)             

[iain]

I love a good debate

Iain
NZ

[Night Vision]

I like off topic..... stuff like jokes from Tiger or good news from those like Yellow Jacket and his accomplishments

political tangents? not so much  :P

although there have been many times I wanted to tell you (insert your political affiliation here) where to stick it.... I have refrained.... politics is not what the ROV is about

type type.. backspace delete ... right Tiger?