formerly about cow parts...

[fret not]

Yeah, nothing is truly foolproof.

[Tiger]

type type.. backspace delete ... right Tiger? 

Damn straight mon ami... 8)

[The Prophet of Doom]

What makes your dislike of certain topics more important than other peoples enjoyment of them? This post offends me more than the infamous other one that "someone" got deleted.
If one member has a beef with another, then this is a great place for it to be aired and resolved.  The language may have been a little agressive for some but the messages are still valid.  I do want to know about trading problems and make up my mind who or who not to deal with.
As for politics it bores me rigid.  Do I care who runs the banking system in some foreign country? No! Do I care that the US Government blew up the twin towers to start an illegal oil war in some foreign country? No! But I defend anyones right to let others know, and for that matter to show bare breasts of either gender whenever they please.  I am not harmed by seeing such things, and neither is anyone else.
I cannot abide censorship - it is symptomatic of a diseased society.   If you don't like what you see then take your toys and run home to mummy.

[Rikugun]

The direction this thread took just proves my first comment

Politics are such a part of our daily lives in subtle and not so subtle ways, it may be difficult to completely eradicate even here in our little community. We are a microcosm of society at large and bring our personal beliefs with us when we log on.

There's been some very interesting points brought up. I especially identified with dcsob's post and BTW I wouldn't call you a cynic but rather a realist. You're only a cynic to those who disagree with you.  :D Tiger makes a good point. There is a button for reporting distastefull content to the moderator. However, some here may have the ear of the administrator so certain gripes will carry more weight. It's just politics. And like Iain, I enjoy a good debate. Like Roro, I dislike censorship. But certain debates - namely political and religious - eventually bore me too. You'll never convince your opponent to change his view and you're more likely to encounter zealots in these two areans above all others. With no censorship sometimes I'm going to see something I don't like. Free speech is a double edged sword. As if there is actually free speech, free countries or free forums for that matter. Ultimately someone has final say regarding permissible content.

Some censorship is unavoidable and common sense is it's best alternative e.g if an inflammatory remark got you booted off one site, why would you think it was OK here? Maybe it was designed to elicit a particular response? Don't know or care but it seemed a tad over the top for an open forum comment. Maybe that thread and this are not related but their timing suggests otherwise. While it may be titillating to watch members air their dirty laundry I hope that and political debate don't become the norm here.

[supervision]

   Roro,  I will be 60 years old in May. The things that I was taught 50 years ago no longer apply.  Shut up and be newturd, or they will call you a trouble maker,  a couple more generaltions of people going thru, you wont know the place.   Socicalism will work much better, till the OTHER GUYS money runs out.

[Kenny]

 I'm wondering where all the folks who have not added their 2 bits are standing!!!
      Ken S. :-[ 

[Lucky]

Ron's almost never here (that i ever see) and sold his Vision a few years ago, i don't think he even talks to any of us anymore.. not me anyway. i don't think he has much interest, but knows we appreciate this site.

[Rick G]

I don't really care what political party you believe in ( your entitled to your opinion) I think there  both abominable.  (and I'm entitled to my opinion.).

[Hartless]

I don't really care what political party you believe in ( your entitled to your opinion) I think there  both abominable.  (and I'm entitled to my opinion.).

i second that

[iain]

 I vote for Rick G

Iain
NZ

[VFan]

I'll jump in with my opinion.  Personally, I find people's opinions entertaining and have chuckled some reading them.  Sometimes the threads remind me of some head butting that you see at a family gathering.  Regardless of the topic, there are civil and uncivil ways to communicate disagreement.   

I have always viewed the "off topic" section as a wide open forum area.  It's actually the section I read the least and I often drop by the forum without even viewing that section.  There have been times where I've wished that some of the off topic discussions that end up the other sections would have been placed in the "off topic" area.

This is a great forum.  I seldom comment but read the forum couple of times a week.  And when I have a RJ problem coming to this forum is quite helpful and reassuring.  Interestingly, if you read the old forum archives there was some entertaining head butting going on back then.

I'm fine on whatever the consensus is.  I'm not easily offended, but it's worth mentioning that we all have a choice on how civil we will be in our communication, regardless of the topic.  Perhaps a little reflection is in order before hitting the post button.

VFan   

[motoracer8]

There are plenty of political web sites out there if one want's to partisapate, this one is suppose to be for our old relic motorcycles, blaming one side or the other, and theres plenty of blame to go around, for all the probblems they have caused just pisses people off, Lucky is right I think we would, my opinion only, be better served keeping the stories around our experiences with the motorcycles and keep the politics to ourselves.

One Ducati site I belong to will not allow any political discussion no matter how friendly and gets removed because it always pisses someone off.

  Ken G.

[QBS]

Motoracer8 +1

[The Prophet of Doom]

If there is a rule about only talking about XZ550s, then it's a bit like inviting people round for dinner and only talking about babies.  Yetch! What a bore.  I regard you guys as my friends (although in a strangely disconnected way since I have met few of you), and hearing about your lives, loves, politics and troubles is all part of that friendship.
When people come round here for dinner some of them say things about jews and catholics and homosexuality and conservatives that strike a nerve with me as a jew brought up as a catholic by gay kiddie fiddling left wing priests, but I don't throw them out of my house or tell them to shut up.  I embrace the differences and enjoy the stimulation of people that think differently than I.
Didn't a whole bunch get together and help support Lucky so he didn't have to sell his bike a while back? That wouldn't have happened if we only talked about bikes?
If there was nothing to read about here that jet sizes for BD34 carbs I'd have been out of here years ago

[iain]

What are the odds of having   gay kiddie fiddling left wing priests around for dinner ?

Iain
NZ

[Lucky]

What are the odds of having   gay kiddie fiddling left wing priests around for dinner ?

Iain
NZ

Um... you've never been to Tennessee?


I'm starting to think that what i posted is asking too many people to agree.. too idealistic.. guess i should have seen that comming.  some of you obvously enjoy talking about politics & religon.  those with strong viewpoints are inevitably going to offer those opinions. some will debate it, some will take offense, some will watch quietly from the sidelines, and some will escalate....  aparently we incapable of agreement?

[Tiger]

....  apparently we are incapable of agreement?

Not really Lucky...we have, as a group, agreed to disagree :o ::) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

I have read all the posts here and here is my (somewhat) final take...

We have, for many years, proved that we can all coexist here on the ROV, without any real  censorship. It is really a case of not directly/indirectly trying to offend/hurt others who come on here. Like any 'family', we will have the occasional rift...but in most cases, this can be quickly resolved. I believe that being civil and courteous to others about what we post, will carry us through for many, many more years... LONG LIVE THE ROV ... 8)

                 8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)

[akvision]

Hey,  start to here... really good family discussion.  It is healthy for all.  The dialog is great!

Monkey Fist has my ZX and I follow it that way.  Still have an interest in the proceedings..

This is really a "down to earth forum".    I cannot stay away.

akvision

[JohnAMcG]

Hell with it, I'll weigh in.
It used to be you could talk politics even to the point of blows then calm down and shake hands, till the next save the world session be it over coffee or a few (well more than a few) beers.
Being heavily involved in college I didn't really notice it becoming taboo. Once out of school, it seemed if you took a view that didn't mesh with the group think of the crowd you were cast out as a pariah, unclean, leprous, and obviously mentally defective (Democrat/Republican) insert your favorite bully boy here.
Those who try to see both sides of the argument are baffled by the lack of common sense, and the ability of either side to not see the turd in the punch bowl. And for the love of God don't have a memory longer than 90 days because if you bring up something Joe politician said a year earlier you must have made it up from whole cloth.
So here we sit, divided over the most esoteric of issues while the politicians in the gleaming halls of Oz posture in front of the cameras for the benefit?? of the masses. In my observations, once a politician gets to the big house they treat you like the stuff you scrape off your shoe, unless of course you can donate larger amounts to the reelection fund.  When the camera shuts down they go out to drinks and dinner, because lawyers are taught to argue their point vehemently, yet not take it personally.
As was pointed out earlier in the post. The unwashed masses, end up taking it personally, then dislike/hate the other. And in doing so are blinded. We fiddle while the country burns around us.
Label me a cynic if you will. A Tshirt says it all,  I used to get mad, now I'm just amused.

^ That exactly. 

On a more personal note, I love debating politics and religion, and have had very spirited discussions with friends and family, and really anyone who can appreciate the dialogue.  As such, I have learned to let a lot of things go.  Someone trying to tune a carb in the tech talk forum is no place to start a gas price debate, even if someone is asking for it.  I come here to read about my bike, and like that most post are met with 60% on topic discussions and 40% pleasant familiarity only found on a close knit forum where many people have known each other for a long time.  That being said, the off topic area for me is about jokes and debates.  If it either makes me laugh or makes me think, I'm all for it. 

It is important to remember that even the most different among us is still 99% the same, we all want to be safe, happy, healthy, better life for our kids, we all work, ride, eat, breathe and we all hate pooping in a public toilet. 

As a final thought, freedom of speech is as much a right as it is a responsibility. 

[Cdnlouie]

First of all, I confess I am with the fellows that don't typically hang out in the "off topic" section.  I think I may have looked at the topics once or twice and it just doesn't ring my bell.  I enjoy the tech side of ROV and have never been one for much social chat (the general topic is social enough for me).  I have been with ROV for over 12 years and have seen it become more of a social site than a technical site (read the old board posts for the distinct historic flavour).  I admit it gets a bit annoying when threads get hijacked by idle chatter on occasion, but it is often entertaining as well, so not a real problem.

Now going to an "Off Topic" section was no doubt done to respond to the need for more social interaction on a broader variety of topics.  With that move, inevitably comes the results of what can/has happened (of which I am oblivous).  This is where most sites have to use a moderator (playground supervisor) to enforce some rules or other disciplinary measure (which we all need whether we realize it, or want it).

I'm okay with the Off Topic section as it does not change my view of anyone nor does it polarize me from anyone, because I really don't go there.  If it does, then I would suggest staying out of the Off Topic section or toughening the rules to prevent people from poisoning the nice atmosphere we all breath on ROV. I appreciate the fact that someome (Lucky & others) care enough to bring this discussion up to remind all of us about the simple pleasures/privileges that may be lost if discretion (which some fail to develop over their lifetime) fails to prevail.  This is good food for thought and a fair warning.

Thank-you all for the grace you each extend to me,