Almost there (timing?)

[Rikugun]

My haynes does not even reference where the cams should be for the rear when the front is at tdc.

That's because it's relatively unimportant so don't focus on that. What is important is after the cam is set on the front (TDC, lobes angled in, marks aligned etc.), turn the crank another 3/4 of a revolution and start looking for the rear TDC mark at the small inspection cover on the alternator cover. Rock the crank a little back and forth until you find the crank marks and align them. Then align the cam marks with the lobes angled out on the rear cylinder. Then adjust the valves, clean the carbs and go riding.  :)

[Hartless]

My haynes does not even reference where the cams should be for the rear when the front is at tdc.

That's because it's relatively unimportant so don't focus on that. What is important is after the cam is set on the front (TDC, lobes angled in, marks aligned etc.), turn the crank another 3/4 of a revolution and start looking for the rear TDC mark at the small inspection cover on the alternator cover. Rock the crank a little back and forth until you find the crank marks and align them. Then align the cam marks with the lobes angled out on the rear cylinder. Then adjust the valves, clean the carbs and go riding.  :)

That's because it's relatively unimportant so don't focus on that

:) thats what I was trying to say in a sarcastic yet un sarcastic manner. haha
everything is lined up correctly and the only thing i havnt checked in regards to cams is the valve clearences, which is going to have to wait another week because i will be hunting!

[Jimustanguitar]

Your definatly off, no cigar! try again .

I'm reassembling my cams today (Jim, not Hartless). My bike ran before I had head gasket failure a month or two ago, and I have no reason to believe that my valve timing was off before (except that the idiot PO messed up everything else :) ) The pictures of timing marks are mine from before the tear down and I'm comparing to them for reassembly.

Anyway, my timing marks line up the exactly same way still. Moving one tooth is more off than where I already am. I did notice that there is a timing mark on the cam itself though (visible from above) and they all line up absolutely perfectly (they align even better than in the pictures, my angle is off because of holding the light and camera).      *** edit - I made the attached pictures less huge. sorry about that ***

Am I ok?

[Rikugun]

Jim, are both pics of the rear cylinder?

[Jimustanguitar]

These are both pictures of the front. You can see the rubber grommet for the carb heatshield on the intake picture.

[Jimustanguitar]

The front cam lobes face towards each other at #1 TDC, and when rotated CCW 290 deg to #2 TDC the rear cam lobes face away. This is correct per the manual.

After several rotations in both directions, my timing marks are still landing in the same places and I've triple checked the ccw 290 deg relationship with each other.

I think I'm ok to put her back in the frame.

[Rikugun]

OK, got it. I was having a hard time orienting myself. The ability to post large pictures is a good thing I guess but it sometimes seems awkward navigating around them.  :o It sounds like you've got a handle on the cam timing procedure.

[Rick G]

If you screw it up you can re-time with the engine in the frame, as long as you were not so far off you bent a valve.   OKI was a tooth off the first time I did it,

[Rikugun]

If you screw it up you can re-time with the engine in the frame, as long as you were not so far off you bent a valve.   OKI was a tooth off the first time I did it,

When did you catch the problem - had you tried to start it? I'm guessing it will run with one tooth off?

[Rick G]

I caught it while the bike was still on the stand , on first start. I recognised it immediately  and shut it down and pulled the rear valve cover , the timing cover and proceeded to re-time.

[Jimustanguitar]

Any updates? I hope you got it!

[Rikugun]

I think Rick was relating a story from an early experience he had with cam timing.  :)

[Jimustanguitar]

I was asking Hartless if he got back to his Vision yet. I'm curious what he found :)

[Rikugun]

OH, why didn't you say so!?  :P  :-[ My bad  ;D   But since you brought it up I'm curious too.

[Rick G]

Yes  Rikugun, that was in 2005, the first time I had the engine out of the frame , due to a bad rod bearing.  It's  really an easy engine to do , as it comes out the bottom,  as opposed to levering a CB750 out of the frame and struggling to carry it (with a friend) across to the bench!

[Rikugun]

At my current age and fitness level the Vision motor would present the same challenge as a 750.  :(  :o Earlier in the summer I assembled a Bultaco 125 motor to put back in the frame. Individually all the parts seemed light enough. But once assembled it was as if it was fused to the bench. I couldn't get over how heavy that thing had gotten just sitting in my basement all these years.  :)  :D  ;D

[Jimustanguitar]

This is a little off topic for the thread, but relevant to some of the latest posts...

I built a wooden stand to put under my engine while I worked on it. Originally I just wanted something to keep it off the concrete floor, but I also wanted something to hold the engine steady so I could torque the heads without it rolling around (since the engine doesn't sit flat). I built it with scraps in about 10 minutes with a friend who had the idea of raising it with some 2x4's so that I could roll the floor-jack under it. Sure enough, it worked just like we hoped. Lifting it took no muscle, and with one of us balancing it and the other pushing and pulling to get it aligned just right, reinstalling the engine was pretty stress free. Easier than the last few times I've done it on other bikes.

[fret not]

That's clever. 

[Hartless]

that is pretty clever! but as to whether i have gotten anywhere with my bike that would be a negative. I have not had a chance to work on it as i was hunting :) i will let yall know when I do check it out. i do have to admit, i was re reading this thread and i didnt even notice that you guys were talking about the timing mark on the actual shaft of the cams, i did not even know that it existed. so that is definitely be what i check first

[Hartless]

so, the rain season has finally arrived here in Portland, Oregon (later then usual!) and I plan on taking another look at my bike tomorrow. my luck, I will finally get it going good and just in time for the rain! oh well better than nothing.....if i do :D