Motor oil - Synthetic or mineral?

[HarryTakeuchi]

What type of oil do you guys use on your Visons?
Before I got the XZ I rode an XS triple and stayed away from synthetic because I knew too many cases where the oil seeped through the gasket. As far as I know late 70's gaskets are just not designed to hold synthetic oil.

So what is the story with the XZ? I remember they were starting to sell full synthetic oil by the early 80s but it was a transitional era and I'm not sure if I'd be safe to use synthetic.

Would appreciate your input on the type of oil you use and experiences.

[QBS]

Harry, welcome to the group.  IMHO synthetics are a waste of $.  Castrol GTX 20w50 changed every 3-4k miles.  Save $, declare victory.  For your context purposes I have have owned my '83 since '84, current milage estimated at 88K.  It will still red line 5th gear.  Good to meet you.

[HarryTakeuchi]

QBS
Howdy

That's encouraging.

I liked to use Quaker State on my triple but my dealer says he is out of stock and that QS stopped making motorcycle oil and was curious if more modern synthetics was worth looking into.

[treedragon]

In our mainly Ducati  shop we always recommend mineral and in our case specifically Valvoline ¨Hi Vis¨ or preferably ¨Racing 50¨ (probably called something different elsewhere)

Mineral because it looks after the engine and we really like our customers, whereas synthetics just bring us business particularly gearbox rebuilds.......

The Valvoline, one of many good oils, because hot or cold, regularly used or sitting for months we find there is always a good coating of oil over all the parts particularly at start up which is max wear time. We recommend change every 5000k.

My XZ gets worked to the max all the time, currently at somewhere around 125,000k and still going strong..........

 

[Jirik]

treedragon: Do you mean 5000 km, right?
In Service manual 11U is it 5000 km (3000 miles), in Service manual RJ, RK is it 4000 km (2500 miles).
Does anybody know, why is it different?

[Rikugun]

I've heard that rumor about gaskets leaking with synthetics but wonder how much of it is urban myth perpetuated through on-line forums. If anyone is aware of controlled studies that demonstrate this I'd be interested in taking a look at it.  :)

I think the long term benefits of synthetic oils are fairly well established in reducing wear. I've used it a few times when I found it on sale but will admit to the regular price scaring me away. I didn't notice any increased gasket weeping or oil consumption but I didn't do a particularly scientific test either!

In my riding group there are 3 new Triumphs all with stickers near the oil fill warning to use Castrol synthetic only. Take from that what you will but I suspect the brand requirement may have something to do with Castrol and Triumph both being UK companies.  ::)

[supervision]

SHELL ROTTELA T6 5-40wt Walmart sells it for $21a gallon   I've also been using a K-N oil filter, better flow to use with that oil.   If your bike has any leaks, that oil will leak more that reg oil.   

[fret not]

In the 70s when synthetic oils became "popular" some folks experienced oil weeping from some gaskets when they changed from petroleum based to synthetic oil.  It's not like it was running out, just enough to make an unsightly issue on otherwise clean bikes.

I'm not sure what Triumph is now using for gaskets but the modern ones have a reputation for being as clean as Japanese bikes, which is pretty impressive considering how they used to be.

[Rick G]

Clutch slippage can be a problem with synthetics, in some brands of bikes.. I'm using Suzuki's 10 40 ( 58.00 a case at my local Suzuki dealer.) I use it in all my 4 wheel vehicles too . It has all the ZDDP missing from "modern" oils

[Rikugun]

Any non motorcycle specific oil - mineral based or synthetic - can have a negative effect on wet clutches with the possible exception of the Rotella synthetic mentioned by supervision?  I think I read that Rotella finally had to succumb to the friction modifiers/economy improving formulations that the gasoline rated oils have.  :(  Somehow they've managed to meet the requirement with lower zinc in the synthetic however. This info may be outdated now as I haven't kept up but one way around it is to use motorcycle specific oil as Rick mentioned. I think they are still safe for wet clutches.  :)

As far as Triumphs are concerned I'd doubt their gaskets are substantively different than what's in the Vision. What is different about them is now the components are made to higher standards of manufacturing quality - regardless of where the parts are actually manufactured. http://members.bccthai.com/BCCT/asp/corpDetail.asp?CorpID=46

[Rick G]

The Suzuki 10/40 is highly rated. my cars and trucks are 70's and 80's vintage  and need the anti scuff ingredients. truth be known newer vehicles need it too. Its another  case of the GOV. legislating things the have no knowledge of.

[fret not]

If you would like the run down on motor oils ask Motoracer8, as he was the Torco Oil rep back when I was working in parts at a dealership.  He is quite technically knowledgeable, especially about this stuff.

[pinholenz]

Currently I am using Castrol Power RS 4T. This is a synthetic oil 10w40 motorcycle oil. Very happy with  to date but I am riding in a moderate climate. This is the oil that Castrol recommend for the XZ550. I wait for it to be on sale at the local auto store (-30%)  otherwise I think it is probably a bit over the top for a 30 year old bike. The Castrol Actevo X-tra 4T (stupid marketing names) is a part synthetic cheaper alternative also recommended by Castrol for our bikes.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9047792&contentId=7081455

[supervision]

 I,ve only been using the Shell lately, before that it was Torco 10-40 reg

[Rikugun]

Speaking of Castrol and marketing stupidity....

I understand their Syntec oil labeled as fully synthetic is not. Well, technically it is according to some nifty legislation enacted surrounding the ingredient requirements. However, it does not perform as well as "true" synthetics. I guess it's just a case of Castrol using syntax to play semantics games with their Syntec synthetic.  aka marketing douchebaggery  :( ;)

[The Prophet of Doom]

I use Castrol Power1 GPS Semi-synth, not sure they make it any more but I have a stash.
The difference from ordinary oil was quite astounding - smoother running, better acceleration.  Won't be going back

[fret not]

Rikugun, that is some tricky alliteration you got there. ;)

[Rikugun]

Rikugun, that is some tricky alliteration you got there. ;)

Thank you for noticing. I put some effort into that one!  ;D

[jefferson]

I use synthetic in everything,  Amsoil. I started on my synthetic journey with mobil 1 in a Z-1 that had a small leak where the stator wires exited and it did leak more with the mobil 1, but that was the only place that leaked. I don't remember the weight exactly, but they had some odd ones back then and it was a thinner weight. Mileage improved noticeably.  Articles about noted Honda tuner Kaz Yoshima got me going on Amsoil and I never turned back. Back then they had the synthetic gear lubes and such that other brands didn't. Kaz built a Z-1 beater out of a highly modified 400F. His reliability issues were solved when he started using Amsoil. I have several magazine articles about his modified bikes where he is using Amsoil. Whatever synthetic you choose you should be better off. The only issue is the friction modifiers in the car oils that mess with a wet clutch.

Jeff

[motoracer8]

 A few years back Mobil and Castrol got into a pissing contest over synthetic base oils and what was a true synthetic. Mobil uses a Oliofin base whitch is a true synthetic. Castrols Syntec was a group5 iso cracked petro base oil, whitch is very good and preforms nearly as well as true synthetics.

Castrol argued that from a performance standpoint their product preformed at the same level as many synthetics made from oliofin or ester base oils.  And for the performance part and markiting the court ruled in Castrols favor.

So the question still remains, is Castrol Syntec a synthetic? Performance wise it is in the ballpark but it is made from a highly refined group5 petro base, good stuff, but in my opinion it's not the real thing. Castrols lawyers and the court says it is, so you know where that leaves my opinion.