Author Topic: Sand in the idle jet holes?  (Read 2450 times)

pinholenz

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Sand in the idle jet holes?
« on: June 08, 2013, 08:16:02 AM »
I know the report of casting sand in the idle jet has gone in to Vision folk-lore and Wikipedia, but I was looking at Marc's account of his "discovery" and it sounded quite reasonable. Whatever it was, cleaning out the passages with a thin drill got rid of the gum or other residue there. It seemed to work for him. Off idle stumble gone.
http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodyXZ550.htm
Do others clean out the idle jet holes under the butterfly with a drill and pin vice? Any problems with this? Thanks.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Rikugun

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 10:27:17 AM »
That narrative is a perfect example of how myths and urban legends are started.  ;) And once they're on the interwebs they become fact.  :laugh: No one will ever know whether it was sand or not but my money is on not. Fine rust sediment or gunk seems more likely and I wouldn't be surprised if other bikes (not just Visions) suffer from the same effect. It's just this kind of buildup that reduces flow through jets and passageways and is nearly impossible to correct with today's weak-a$$ carb dip/sprays and compressed air.

Cdnlouie wrote a nice tech "how-to" on cleaning such a passage that affected the starting circuit. I'm not sure if drill bits would reach but he used a length of wire to mechanically open the clogged hole. The problem isn't necessarily that the hole gets completely clogged, partially is sufficient to impact enrichener performance. I've used jet drills to clean pilot jets and have pulled the bit out to find the flutes choked with  the same greenish residue typically seen in dirty carbs. This after chemical spraying and blowing with compressed air.

Whether its passages or jets, care must be taken to avoid altering the original orifice size - unless that is the intent - otherwise new symptoms may arise.  :) I think the design of these carbs allows for many places for residue to collect and hide. In many cases it is out of reach of mechanical removal schemes and tougher than chemical/compressed air can handle. This may be why so many carbs sets only respond to multiple cleanings. Although not available to everyone, It's my personal belief that ultra sonic cleaners may be the best solution in some cases. There are those who disagree (I'm talking to you Rick  :)) but there is a reason why the aviation industry has used them to safely clean fuel injectors for many years. It's just this kind of cleaning where that technology shines. Just my 2 cents.  ;)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

Rick G

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 05:15:06 PM »
I Had an ultra sonic cleaner , but it was too small for the job . Never stumbled over a  larger one . I'm not saying they don't exist . Actually I've never needed one, my old fashioned methods,  have  been sufficient, for me to send carbs all over North America  , with out problems.
I use Berrymans carb dip . All carb dips are not the same, The Berrymans I bought in Vancouver WA. was labeled " not for sale in the state  of California" so i knew it would be good !  The dip i use here is as good . If your in a state like CA. good luck ! Maybe the next state over will have something usable!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 05:21:55 PM by Rick G »
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Rikugun

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 08:27:53 PM »
I Had an ultra sonic cleaner , but it was too small for the job . Never stumbled over a  larger one . I'm not saying they don't exist . Actually I've never needed one, my old fashioned methods,  have  been sufficient, for me to send carbs all over North America  , with out problems.
OK, I did not remember your comments correctly, sorry!  The unit I borrowed would not large enough to accept the complete set.  The two carbs had to be broken down and individual components cleaned separately.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

sunburnedaz

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 09:50:30 PM »
... All carb dips are not the same, The Berrymans I bought in Vancouver WA. was labeled " not for sale in the state  of California" so i knew it would be good !  ...

Amen
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
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Rick G

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2013, 03:11:24 PM »
The one I had would not accept the bodies, only the component parts.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Jimustanguitar

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 02:11:45 PM »
I Had an ultra sonic cleaner , but it was too small for the job . Never stumbled over a  larger one . I'm not saying they don't exist . Actually I've never needed one, my old fashioned methods,  have  been sufficient, for me to send carbs all over North America  , with out problems.
OK, I did not remember your comments correctly, sorry!  The unit I borrowed would not large enough to accept the complete set.  The two carbs had to be broken down and individual components cleaned separately.

My wife's ultrasonic cleaner was just big enough to submerge a carb body about 55% of the way. I would run a cycle, and turn it 90deg. After doing this many times, I was happy with the cleaning. It's not a replacement for compressed air, but it does a decent job. I've been looking at the transducers online, and I'm thinking about building my own big cleaner. I was thinking about making the transducer couple to some big rare earth magnets so that I could just stick the whole unit on whatever I wanted. Dog bowl, metal bucket, steel drum... gas tank... :)

pinholenz

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Re: Sand in the idle jet holes?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 04:26:59 PM »
Now, that sounds like a great idea! Let us know how it goes.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550