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Started by The Prophet of Doom, November 22, 2013, 06:28:56 AM

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Craig B

Hey Dude hope that bikes coming along OK. Sounds like one that i picked up couple of years back. It would fire up and then just cut out. ! of the main problems turned out to be the kill switch which had oxidation in it from the ali of the control switch. Man i felt dumb when i found what the problem was. Maybe good to check that. And if shes running lean you could try the old washer on the flapper trick to make it open slower.

Yes they might not be the most reliable bike, but i have learnt so much from owning them. Yes i have curst the designers more than once, specially whoever came up with that stupid rear exhaust piece. One day someone will find the skeletal remains of a dude who's been re installing that piece and got his hands trapped. Makes me fell claustrophobic ever time i work on it. At least Cosworth had his shit together motor wise. I'm sure the rest of the team were doing cocaine and passing around a few doobs.

The Prophet of Doom

You say they are not the most reliable bike.  Why do you say that?  The ONLY problems of reliability I have stem from owner neglect or stupidity.   I tell you who was smoking doobs, that's the previous owner of this lemon. 

Look what I woke up to this morning - I never had them on my checklist them but seems the moron only did the valve covers up with his fingers.  Sheesh. 

At least that will explain the funny looking oil - (another $70 down the drain) but God alone knows what other crap is in store for me.

So do I:
A) torque the head replace the oil and hope for the best
B) do a top end tear down
C) do a full engine tear down
D) try and build up a 550 engine from two partial (but neglected) engines I have lying around
E) put in the good engine from my other bike and then do D) at my leisure
F) sell all my visions for $1 and get a life

QBS

Considering all the other issues you have discovered, if the PO left the valves covers finger tight, I would have major uncertainty about how he left the the valve lash.  You haven't mentioned the gold metal flake oil since the first time you reported it.  Any more thoughts or discoveries on that front?

The Prophet of Doom

I was going to do the lash anyway - the long handled screwdriver test suggests work needed in at least 3 valves (tick tick tick), though no noises that I didn't like.

Having seen this, I suspect the gold metal flake was actually coolant irridescing through the gold (not yet turned black) oil
If it was a 550, then I have spare head gaskets etc, but being a 400 these will have to come from Japan, if they are available at all.

What's your vote from the options above?




fret not

(A ) And check the condition of the oil carefully.  It may indicate other choice.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

The Prophet of Doom

Definite green tinge to the oil.  Engine's going to have to come out :-(
The gaskets / o-ring at the bottom of the cylinders on the 400 is are same as 550 so I have one.  The gasket at the top of the cylinders is 400 specific.  I'll see if I can get a nice new set of rings when I'm at the parts shoppe.

This is going to stretch my ability to follow instructions.  If I can do brain surgery I should be able to do this.  Oh wait, I can't do brain surgery either. :-(  Worst case the bike never goes again and I have some really expensive parts that I don't need.

Rikugun

Is it too late to get the Corolla I was talking about!?  :(   That is a bummer. You're sure that's coolant?
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

The Prophet of Doom

#47
I'm sure of nothing.

Yes, too late for the Corolla (and I'm way too cool for a corolla).  Engine is out now thanks to Iain deadlifting it onto my workbench on his own.

[edit - 11:00pm Sat]
Found one corner of the rear cylinder leaking what is definitely coolant, hidden behind the stator wires.  It's been leaking for some time.
So far I've had to drill out 4 or 5 bolts.  Both sets of cams are out.  The sprockets had to come out with them as they are too frozen to use a normal wrench.  One oil plug missing (front intake) but no obvious damage. I'll measure properly tomorrow.
Shim cover rubbers are well buggered, as well as the bolt rubbers.

[edit - 11:15pm Sat]
Since I'm going to be doing this all again with my cafe bike, I think I'll make an engine stand.  Engines flopping around on a workbench are no fun, and while blocks of wood keep it upright, the bolt you need to turn always seems to be on the other side.

The Prophet of Doom

No matter what I do I can't separate the head from the cylinders.  It means I can't do a valve grind, but since I can't get a head gasket that might not be a bad thing.  Rings aren't available either.

I still have a leaking base gasket which is effectively crippling the bike so I'll see if I can get the heads/cylinders off as a unit.  Grrrr

I'm been looking at used corollas :-( even with high miles they are not exactly cheep

The Prophet of Doom

Got the heads/cylinders off as a single unit.
Obviously I can't inspect the valves, except to discover there are no huge chunks missing.  The pistons are just mildly coked < 1mm so I'll leave these as is, and the rings are bright with no gouging on the cylinder barrels.  No slop at all on the big end :-)

On the bad side there is RTV everywhere and a lot of scratches on the mating surfaces so someone has been here before.  I don't know what gaskets are made of but they should use them for glue - no glue I've ever bought sticks to metal like a gasket does.

The 550 O-rings are too big, so the fiche is definitely wrong about these, so I'll risk re-inserting the current ones. A big +1 for Yamaha for putting bevelled edges on the cylinders - it makes re-inserting the pistons very very easy. Does this make up for the -100 for deleting head gaskets, pistons and rings from their parts lists.  No way! Yamaha should be ashamed of themselves.  I used to have a Mercedes Benz - they guarantee parts availability for every car they have ever made even from the 1800s - if they don't have the part they will make it for you - that's customer service.

Having some issues getting the barrels down onto the crankcase so a bit more jiggling is ahead of me.

BTW did the entire rear cylinder to a Belgian singer called Selah Sue - check her out on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/selahsuemusic sounds very much like Gin Wigmore - one of our NZ stars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpkkbuzejR0&list=PL5DC3E0A483ED06A8

fiat-doctor

If I'm not too late...  Not being able to obtain 400cc head gaskets might mean there is no point of this, but I really think you want to take the heads off if for no other reason than to see what the PO has done up there!

Cut a length of lumber (here is US I'd call it a 2x2) about 25mm longer than the distance from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the combustion chamber and stand it up on your wooden work bench and screw it from the bottom of the bench so it stands there.

Lift the cyl assembly over this and wham it down onto it until the head pops free...
A willing assistant might be useful here...

I guess if you can't get the gaskets, perhaps better to leave alone, but given all that has been done to this bike I'm a little worried.

Good luck,
                Steve

QBS

The wood idea came to me as well.  Laying the cylinder on its' side, inserting the wood and hitting the wood with a heavy hammer would provide good control and still get the job done.  A worthy assistant should be drafted to hold everything in place while all the banging is going on.  You really don't want the head coming off, flying across the room and hitting the floor.

The Prophet of Doom

Great idea guys.
I'd really like to do a hone, valve grind and replace the seals since I'm in here anyway.  It's not like dropping the engine out is a trivial matter.  I need to split the head to do any of that.
If I rip the head gasket the bike's a dead duck though. Any thoughts about using a 550 gasket that instead? Everything would fit except that the metal ring would be about 1cm larger.  I'm wondering if it would be OK except for perhaps dropping the compression ever so slightly.


Re-Vision

Could you put 550 heads on it?     BDC

QBS

See'ns how the head is apparently glued on, the chances are probably real good that the gasket either is toast now, or will be when the head comes off.  If 400cc gaskets aren't available, it's time to start thinking out of the box.  To me, either 550cc heads and gaskets (if they'll mate up to 400cc cylinders), or just 550cc gaskets, would be worthy of consideration.

The Prophet of Doom

Quote from: Re-Vision on December 16, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
Could you put 550 heads on it?     BDC
It would be awesome if I could graft an entire 550 top end on.  I don't have time to do any garage work next couple of days, but I'll measure to see if I can.  I think from a quick look that the entrance way is only just big enough for the 400 bore.  I suppose I could file that larger - it wouldn't be a precision dimension, but would need to take care not to drop filings into the works.

I'm thinking the 550 gasket might be the way to go

fret not

You can make a head gasket from a sheet of copper.  Just cut out the correct holes and outline, and anneal it before installation.  There is a company that sells these but it should be simple enough to make them if you can get the right thickness of copper.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rick G

I dislodge  glued on head gaskets , by using a large shot hammer and striking the head with  a sideways  blow , then adding a upwards motion . works every time,
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

The Prophet of Doom

Well I'd already tried Rick's trick and I wasn't about to start pounding on irreplaceable valves with a bit of 2x2 so I chucked a washer and nut on some threaded rod and fastened it up tight through the plug hole and started smashing the crap out of it.  I don't know what they did, but short of a hydraulic press there's no separating those two parts.

I'll do the shims and just trust the valve seats etc are serviceable unless demonstrated otherwise.

I have to say the cams, chains, and all gear teeth look very good indeed with practically no sign of wear.  Zero slop on big ends - amazingly since the bike has 70k on the clock

Cleaned off the old gasket, dropped a new one on and torqued the head to spec.  Refitted the cams 

Just crossed the 100 hour mark on this bike plus $1000 worth of parts, will be 120 by the time I hit the start button again.  Not bad for something that was "running & just needed a tune" imagine what that would have cost at a motorcycle shop - even allowing for them being faster than me.

The Prophet of Doom

I swear this bike is trying to get back at me for selling it 8 years ago.

I was torquing up the cams and one of the bolts snapped, shit shit shit.
I've ordered an EZ-out.  It should arrive Tuessday :-(