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Vision Tracker

Started by per_w_aberg, December 01, 2013, 06:21:04 AM

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per_w_aberg

A bash plate would be cool. Across the street there is a bash plate shop that makes them! I'll save it for dessert. The last 10% of a build takes 90 % of the time so they say. Just look at the clutch cable guides made black smith style from piano wire, that took the better part of a day. No complains though, this is the best time ever! The tank is sealed with por15 as recommended here and it seems OK. Tried "white" exhaust wrap an it came out so so. I fear that black wrap is marginally better. My wife and daughter didn't get it at all, they're so un-racy! Lets try aluminum spray and see how that looks. What about a graffiti frame! I like graffiti both esthetically and as a cultural expression but not necessarily on my frame. Now that you can't stop thinking of the "pit bike hydraulic clutch" what about a quick shifter? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40UOe4x_mY

Oh, and don't forget to check Ichiban moto, café racer builder. A lot of bad ass stuff going on there. If you don't like it keep looking!

The Prophet of Doom

Loving this.
I think you need a fork brace.  I just happen to have a spare Tarozzi (NOS) - for a XS850 I think.  It rides too low to fit a Vision with a front mudguard, but for your bike with no guards would be fine.  It has the bits needed to attach gaiters as well.

Yours for the cost of postage.

dingleberry

If per_w doesn't take up your offer, give me a call Prophet.

Like the exhaust system, very fast looking!
You like, oui?

per_w_aberg

What a grand offer POD! Thinking that there are contributions from the other side of the world certainly ads emotional value to the project, and to humanity!

Things are slowly coming together and there is light at the end of the tunnel. How about a Li-Ion battery? It's not obvious what size to use, this is the recommended for this bike at 14 Ah. Its ridiculously light at 900g to the stock 4900g. Thats 80% lighter! I'll believe it when I here it cranking. Try saving that weight by titanium screws and carbon fiber...  Putting holes in the battery holder is eye candy but you can't resist it.

For indicator lights I was tearing my hair till I saw the light. Didn't want led holder, that's not classy. What you see is a regular led thats been sanded flat. In case you wonder about the harmonious placed holes in the panel, off the center line, they are placed according to the golden ratio :) Why not?

The m-Unit is soooo sweet and the m-button (12mm in diameter to go into the handlebar) collects all the handlebar controls and send them trough a single wire to the m-unit on a can-bus, that's digital I think.

The trend on colors nowadays seem to be grey on grey on every other cafe build. That look sober and hip. On the other end there's wild graphics, thats risky. I got the whole house filled with design studies in hope of one day have an apiffany.

per_w_aberg

#104
Just a small update showing some of all the small things that needs attending. There is a lot of them! Solenoid is taking up some of the last space left under the tank. The brake caliper is of a Yamaha MX bike. The scoop would be the crank vent catch tank. Why didn't' I think of that before? The bottom of the compartment will be sealed and a drain plug will be fitted.

The Prophet of Doom

So that catch tank - what have you done there?
Is it a separate tank or did you seal up that section of the frame?

I'm doing this for sure but need more details

Rikugun

Isn't the master cylinder a bit smallish for a Vision?  Nice job fitting the brake switch though.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

QuoteIs it a separate tank or did you seal up that section of the frame?

That's part of the stock unorthodox Vision frame, an empty "box" just sits there.  And the near perfect sized holes for the hoses and filter are stock to. I think the engineers thought of this application back in the 80's  :)

QuoteIsn't the master cylinder a bit smallish for a Vision?  Nice job fitting the brake switch though.

Going from double to single disk would have made less leverage with the stock master cyl. I need one with smaller piston that looked cooler and this might work, the donor bike has only one caliper.
Here's a good read on Front Master Cylinder Ratio: http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

fret not

Per, thanks for the link to that article.  I guess the situation warrants more consideration than just putting on some odd parts and expecting them to work well.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rikugun

#109
Thanks for posting that article. When I did my caliper swap I did a similar ratio study albeit with smaller sampling. I don't have time this morning but will look at that more carefully later and compare to my notes. 

QuoteGoing from double to single disk would have made less leverage with the stock master cyl
I'm gonna have to think about that for a bit...seems counter intuitive? What do you mean by "leverage"? There is mechanical leverage provided by the pivot point relative to lever length/placement but otherwise it's PSI and area. Another consideration is volume of fluid moved which affects lever travel and when it feels like it's doing anything.

What caliper(s) are you planning on using and what is/are the piston diameter(s)?
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

#110
I used the term leverage for "Front Master Cylinder Ratio". Rikugun, you say it so much better than I do. It is as you say, you've got an area ratio between the pistons and a ratio around the pivot point that makes up the total ratio. I would have halved the ratio going from double to single caliper making the leaver harder to pull, making the break "weaker" no?

I've read arguments in street racer forums of guys converting to radial master cylinders and they better get it right considering the cost involved. They got all the options to chose from but as it seems still have to make a qualified guess to get the right break feel. As the happy amateur I'm winging it and  have room for errors. Life long learning eh?

Rikugun

Radial master cylinders do the same work as axial but with reduced housing flex as the lever pivot position apparently offers less moment of inertia. Similarly, radial mounted calipers (amongst other perks) offer less flexing. Reducing flex in any brake component is a good thing. With the advent of these advances - and larger and more caliper pistons - master cylinder piston size has grown considerably from the days of either 1/2" or 5/8".

Yes there is a lot to this including the ratio of master piston size to caliper pistons size. Additionally, rotor diameter, bike weight, brake component quality, pad material and a host of other things plays a part. Desired use has as much to do with component choices as any other factor. Brakes that a haul a race bike down from 150 mph may not be good for a new rider faced with a panic stop at 40 mph on the street.

If I understand correctly, you are going from a dual disk front end to a single. So it will be one Vision single pot caliper and the smaller of the available Vision rotors mated to an 11 mm dirt bike master cylinder? If so, this combo might leave me dissatisfied with braking performance. But it's not my build.  :) I must consider ultimate performance may not be your goal but rather a blending of form and function to get to your desired end product.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

The Prophet of Doom

Good point Rikugun.
It could be worth trying to get one of our US cousins to send you brake components off a US 82 (single disk brake) version. Rotor and fork lowers.  I think the caliper is the same (might have to check that) but the rotor is larger and the lugs further up the fork and blank on the right.  Otherwise you are reducing from what was already decried as inadequate braking.

per_w_aberg

This is exiting stuff. I might have to revert to double disks that I have laying around. For the time being I will work on a parameter not mentioned that involves a hand trainer :)

fret not

I think the main consideration is the arena of operation.  If you are going to ride this on the street you need the better braking, but if you are going to race on oval dirt tracks then there is much less demand for strong front braking.  Speedway bikes traditionally have NO brakes, and American style short track (flat track) bikes usually have no front brake but do have a rear brake.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

per_w_aberg

#115


See the difference? IT's ALIVE!  Running on rear cylinder only though but with promising sound. Why should it be easy? Funny how the whole deal changes as soon as a bike is fired up. Mechanical reality is certainly more demanding than dreamlike building. I will start by swapping the coils and scanning ROV for clues.

supervision

Top concern for me would be, oil pressure idiot light.
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dingleberry

Looking very nice. Those are really high bars, are they a custom bend or an "off the shelf" part? 
You like, oui?

fret not

Per, your bike is growing into an awesome looking thing.  We are enjoying your project from afar.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rikugun

Absolutely agree. It's really looking good. I realize there's lots left to do but the bike is emerging from the dream.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan