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Started by per_w_aberg, December 01, 2013, 06:21:04 AM

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per_w_aberg

That radiator i stock. The original cover had to go though. I have to get a ride in so I'm feeling it even though there'n just rudimentary electrical and jerky engine. I feel it :)
http://youtu.be/MzcrI77JjoU

Jirik

Congratulations on your first ride! Good to see well done job.

Rikugun

It lives! That exhaust sounds pretty good too.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

#143
QuoteIt lives! That exhaust sounds pretty good too.

Its quiet, that suits my neighbors with all the sorting out. Just you wait till I uncork it!
Had some more riding in and got the feel for my fuel problems. Opening up the pilot screws made a big difference but its still jerky at a bit of throttle, runs on one cyl only at low rpm/throttle. At speed and open throttle its quite good so there is some fishy business with the low speed circuit in one of the carbs. Getting closer.

I'm exploring stickers..

Next up is a one way ticket to Poland and a week of unplanned travel. I've never been there so ad lib seems the way to go. Now that the bike's showing some cooperation I'll be able to enjoy the trip I hope.

per_w_aberg

#144
Dzień dobry! Just back from Poland I was keen to start solving the carb problem. I had just lifted the air filters when the whole problem reviled itself. One air jet was missing! Guess you didn't see that coming :) I didn't even get oily fingers and rode around with a big smile. Now I got a serious bog problem which was expected so some new jets is up next. Idle's fine with the pilot screws 4 turns out, should be 1-2.5 turns and the 130 mains seems to work alright. All evidence points to upping the pilot jets.
The temp sticker is easy to read, I love it.

fret not

Looking good!  It is nice to follow progress, especially when it resolves some difficulty.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

per_w_aberg

#146
After having postponed the handlebar electrics it was finally time, just do it! Eventually I figured out the mood necessary for success; Bottle ship mood. The amount of patience and special tools constructed was beyond my expectations but I slowly got it done with the mantra "Take your time". What you se is actually just part of what went in the handlebar! There are also wires for the bar end flashers should I decide to use them. 

For those who haven't read it before the little button with all the wires are a CAN bus device collecting all the buttons and sending data by a single wire to the M-unit. We perviously discussed grounding by frame or separate wires. This is what you get with separate ground wires, my gosh! I actually think I can pull the bike apart without cutting any wires now thanks to connectors at the right spots, not an easy game.

The mess under the saddle is what you get. No plans to tidy it for now.

The sad part is I forgot to plug in the regulator when last riding. With lights and all that drained my fussy battery which I discovered the next day. Now, a Li-Ion battery are not suppose to like that were much and it might get ruined. At only 10.8 V we will se if my awaited special Li-Ion charger can fix it. It all looked so good on paper..

Update: Just hooked up a stone age lead battery and confirmed that my buttons work and the M-unit woks as advertised: Left indikator+high/low beam button= Engine start. That's so sweet.

Rikugun

Looks like very exacting work. I'm impressed with both your patience and craftsmanship - nice work.  :)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

Hi.
Having waited for my LiFePO charger for to long I brute forced my old lead battery on to the bike and just started running it. Had some nice rides around here and made every run a test ride for changes. In the end I settled for 90 air jets and the pilot screw 1 turn out. For every step down in air jets I moved the working throttle rang (up to ~5% throttle) to where I now have e decent acceleration and can cruse at 110 km/h. It's a sweet ride! A bit beyond that it sort of don't want to go. Of course I can slowly twist the throttle to full open and let the acc pump and the mains do its thing and have a rocket launch, I just can't do the in between. I reality its fine.

So, I decided to act on the unsupported idea of charging the LiPo battery with a regular, dumb charger for a few minutes. That worked and I set of for a ride when the horn went on. Suspecting button short circuit I simply unplugged the horn. Little did I know it was the M-Units way of saying something is wrong with the charging. I now know that my regulator was putting out 18+ V and that set the LiPo battery in thermal runaway. I can assure you that was spectacular with smoke and smell. My new MOSFET regulator is broken I think. What is the hen and the egg I don't know. 

It runs hot so I'm mounting a fan of some Ducati, it's small enough to fit. I also made a new thinner rear led light, now only 5mm thick.

I will not have it ready for Mälaren Runt newt week. Thats a bike rally with like 15 000 bikes running around the lake Mälaren for a day. I think thats some kind of record. Byt I'll be on the back of my friends bike so thats all good.

I really want to close this thread of with som nice riding videos but here I am still :)

Rikugun

Sorry to hear about the battery meltdown. How did you come to learn the regulator was putting out 18V - is that the threshold for the m-Unit overvoltage protection? Where was the regulator mounted?

Regarding the new Ducati fan, prior to installing were you not using any fan?
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

The Prophet of Doom

Bugger !!! Lucky you didn't take out your expensive m-unit as well.

What r/r are you using? I have a FH00012A.   Perhaps I should have spent the extra $ and got a ultrabatt battery with built-in regulator.  My shorai is one of the sort that will burst into flame if overvolted

Loving the flat fan..

per_w_aberg

#151
Thanks for your support in these hard times. After the smoke test I hooked up the lead battery and measured the charging voltage to +18V, which is the M-Units trigger point for warning. Nearly fried that battery to. The R/R is recommended for the Vision at  http://www.electrexworld.co.uk, and they say they're willing to take it back for scrutinizing and possible refund. They also provide this this disclaimer:

QuoteLiability
Electrex World Ltd accept no liability in relation to consequential damage, injury, death or loss of revenue arising from defective items.
Ops.

I figured the R/R would be safe above the ignition coils with the vent holes i drilled out but did no temp measurement. The battery is in a hot spot to so maybe some heat deflectors from the radiator and engine is called for besides the fan. Damn, this is getting complicated, you don't want to show wires. Its hard to find actual hard facts about these batteries upper heat limit but I found some that said the are safe for at least 150C but who knows? Recommended operating temperature is < 60C, hmm..

I had no fan and no expansion bottle for that total loss deal. There were some hot water waste but nothing serious, no boiling so that was probably quite good but now I'm taking the extra steps.

The Ultrabatt is actually available here, never heard of it but it seems to be a solid deal, and among the most expensive. Regarding internal regulator I don't see it but rather internel balancing circuits necessary for even voltage over each cell, otherwise a common problem. I think the many batteries got that now though but i could be what sets them off from the rest. Lithium batteries are still a sketchy business with all kind of random manufactures, different chemistry (LiFe is preferred), experiences and rumors. We seem to starting to agree that a to small battery, <8 cells will crank all right but the strain can fry the battery and in cooler weather it looses. Better to open up the wallet and not go to small. But the stock 14 Ah for the Visions 550 cc seems a bit big?

I'm looking at deal on Alien Motion battery. One guy on a forum had his Alien Motion battery fried and they said they were willing to take it in and rebuild it with what cells could be saved. That is saying something about at what scale some of these companies are operating I guess. A boutique built battery!

That's 8 months and ~500 hours in. I to need a charge of some sort right now :)

Rikugun

My guess is there probably isn't adequate air flow where the R/R is mounted. Especially in no or slow moving traffic where heat rising off the engine may be concentrated there.

Regarding undersized lithiums - I agree. Many cross reference charts seem to undersize them relying on their ability for massive amp draw. Unfortunately several extended cranking attempts on a cantankerous Vision will be more than it can bear. 

The standard 14AH battery sometimes seems undersized as well. I have no means to measure it, but it seems the starter on my inline four 550 asks much less of its 12AH battery than a Vision does of it's larger battery. The 4 cylinder spins briskly on the starter and is often running before a complete crankshaft revolution has occurred. By comparison - and even with a very healthy battery -  the Vision spins slow and several crank revolutions are required before it comes to life.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

jefferson

The more cylinders the easier they are to crank. Harley and big single owners know of which I speak. Of course everything is pretty much electric start today, but there has been technology that has helped overcome the fact, but it is still a fact.

Rikugun

I vaguely remember Yamaha having problems with their first big air cooled V-twins. It seems the starter clutch was slipping as I recall. Maybe they were using off the shelf parts underestimating the starter torque required for a couple of long throws...
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

I was under the impression that MOSFET regulators don't get more than lukewarm. Maybe someone care to comment on that? Never did investigate, I was just to busy ripping. Let me make all the misstakes so you don't have to :)

fret not

MOSFET RR units run warm but not hot if the system is functioning properly.  In a FAIL condition it is just an electrical thing and physics trumps theory and supposition.  If you run all the current the stator produces into anything but a healthy electrical system it is very likely to get very hot some place.

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you have been experiencing, but you have accomplished so much at this point, and inspired many of us.  We are cheering for you and hope you find a solution soon, and hope your bike runs well for a long time.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rikugun

From what I read it appeared MOSFETs did not run hot. My experience has shown me this is true only under some conditions. Or at least when used on a Vision.

My experience has been that any R/R used on a Vision may get hot if inadequate air flow is present. I'll define hot as uncomfortable to leave your fingers on.  Lack of air flow AND  proximity to a heat source - i.e. Y pipe in the stock position - will exacerbate the problem.

As a R/R gets hot it's stated amp rating falls off. If it gets and stays hot enough long enough it will likely fail.

Just my 2 cents so YMMV.  :)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

per_w_aberg

#158
Good news we're up and running again. There was a good bit of cleaning the waist from the melted LiPo battery. Never figured out if that stuff is toxic or not, no alarming warnings wherever I locked. The bike started loosing power when the havoc occurred and I forced it to a sorry sigh.

Rolling back to lead battery, and a by warranty replacement R/R form England the bike ran like crap. I suspected fumes from the melting battery got sucked into the engine, the battery being placed just in front of the air filters. Who knows the chemical reaction of boiling LiPo battery exploding with gas in a combustion chamber, I don't. Either that or the CDI box got fried sucking 18V. As luck would have it a guy i know here used to own a Vision and the only part he had left is a spare CDI box! Turned out that wasn't it. True to my sloppiness I again found the problem when I lifted the air filters; I had stuffed paper in the carbs while cleaning and left one in! Sigh. After that the sun came out and I took it for a spin. All your good tips must take this in account :)

Searching for some monitoring I found a clever device cheep enough that combines voltage meter, temp sensor on a wire and a stop watch. Great now I can monitor the voltage, temperature of different parts and count the seconds till it brakes down again! I can report that the CMOS R/R gets about 7 degrees hotter than the surrounding air and the voltage at 14.7 max. You see the sensor in the hole behind the steering beam. The silly voltage warning lights on there would be useful if it were constructed right, now the warning goes of at 13V. Next up would be the clever voltage device that’s normally off found here: http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/voltmeter.html

She still got some issues running on one cylinder occasionally till I up the revs. Hard to say if its fuel or spark at the moment. There's also a sudden cut of that’s solved by a power cycle that can be done rolling but leaves me with no light. Maybe my bike makes your bikes look great?

Your bonus pic is of Miss America X by Garwood with 4 liberty engines silencing the competition from England for a while. From what I gather these were just about the most powerful engines on the planet at the time costing millions! Lets do 4!


The Prophet of Doom

I've done that paper trick before.   It's very annoying, but easily done 8)

At EUR30, that unit is fairly expensive.  Check out http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/index.php for one that's cheaper, and by the looks a bit better it uses a tri-color led  His one is normally green, but he reprogrammed it for me at no charge to show green for 30 seconds, then off.  He can also reprogram voltage thresholds.  It fits into a bezel I bought on ebay, but you could place it as a fourth hole on your idiot light array.

Good luck diagnosing your other issues.  M-unit will shut off under a number of bad conditions listed in the manual.  Particularly check your current draw as it only handles 60W on the headlight  Don't know what you have in yours, but if you moved the bulb over, you may have a 65W/60W, or higher if the previous owner replaced it.