Restoring Vision, what needs to be done?

[b_racuda]

Got everything back together and  did a test drive. Bike works ok but not as good as it should be. Feels that is missing some power. It is hard to say why but I think I am not able to get carburetors any better by myself. They are now clean and should not have any vacuum leaks. But at least it is working again and not leaking.

[b_racuda]

Today morning rode to work. Now I am having thoughts that my pick up coil is fouling. The bike runs good when cold, when the engine warms up and you are riding and you push the clutch the engine may stall. And if you let it idle when warm the tach jumps. This tach jumping never happens when the bike is cold. When starting cold it sounds like it starts with one cylinder and then after a while the other comes along. The TCI is already changed to Ignitech version. The pick up coils and coils are original. My aftermarket tach is connected to white wire coming from the rear pick up coil to the TCI, so I assume that rear pick up coil is fouling.

Well, is there after market pick up coils available? Or is the only possibility to get used original?

This bike is tough to own, at least if you want to ride it  :(

[fret not]

The problem may be the ignition coil for the cylinder that loses spark.  As the coils are used they become warm, and the copper wire winding expands a bit.  If there is a break in the winding (coil) it can open when it becomes warm, and close when it cools.

[b_racuda]

It can be also the ignition coil. But as the aftermarket tach is only connected to the white wire and not in the original tach wire I assume that it knows nothing about the ignition coil. It just reads what happens with the white pick up coil wire. And the tach is jumping when the engine is hot that is why I see that the problems lies in the pick up coil.

If it is pick up coil, will the failure lead also to TCI failure?

[Walt_M.]

That is so frustrating. Did your original TCI fail or did you change it to see if it was better? Try swapping back to original to see if it improves. If not, you might want to do a carb synch.

[b_racuda]

The original TCI failed, at least I thought so. First there was something odd going with the original tacho, it went suddenly to zero rpms and then jumped around. First I assumed that tacho is broken until I had second sympton, the bike refused to iddle more than 2000 rpms for about 20-30 seconds but after that was normal again. Then I looked at this guide http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html#a7p1 and found out that it is TCI problem.

Now I am thinking that it may be also the pick up coil problem. But had a thought that where is pick up coil grounded, is it there in the one engine bolt on the same side as the stator is located? I have to check the grounding first before ordering pick up coils from Ebay.

The carb synch is on the list also but first I have to get the ignition working. When I get ignition sorted out I take my bike to some professional to work out the carburetors.

Again, if I have to purchase new pick up coils it takes two weeks to arrive and one day to install. Waiting the parts is very frustrating. And when you got one problem fixed you bump in to another.

[jefferson]

Do the simple things first. Put a new set of plugs in and check the resistance on your plug caps. A friend of mine had an issue with his Vision that we hashed things over for quite awhile. His was on one cyl. a lot of the time and was running so badly that he even switched back to the original carbs from the vmax setup. He had already cut the wire for the rev limiter and so on. He was thinking pickup coils and tci also. He replaced the plug in the one cyl and everything is fine now. I told him that it may have been affecting things with the vmax setup and the running issues he had with it.

[b_racuda]

I have tried to do the simple things  :-\ I doubt that the problem lies at the plug caps, they are quite new NGK caps, only 2000km with them. Also spark plugs are iridium. All the plug wires are also changed. Rev limiter is also out of the game already and new TCI is in place. The grounding is also ok, after the powder coating the frame I did sand the place to bare metal and coated it with dielectric grease.

I did order a used pick up coil. Also thinking of ordering the ignition coils also, found these on the, are they good or rubbish? Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XZ-550-82-83-Motorcycle-Motorbike-Ignition-Coil-OEM-Standard-/391450549110?hash=item5b24455b76:g:vvYAAOSwhRxXLPbn&vxp=mtr

[QBS]

Visions may be known for having many gremlins, but pick up coil failure is way down the list.  I've never heard of failure regarding that part.  Since you have replaced the plugs, plug caps, and plug wires, I would be inclined to suspect that the problem is somehow related to your spark coils.  The stock tach gets it's signal from one of the spark coils.  I don't remember the exact set up.  Your tach jumping around might be an important clue.  Try running the bike with the tach feed wire disconnected and see what changes, if any, occur.

[b_racuda]

I am not suprized of anything with my Vision anymore. The tach problems only accur when the engine is hot, not when it is cold. Also the bike does not idle when hot or it may idle a while but then revs drop and it stalls. I think I order also the ignition coils, just to be sure. One thing is sure, I just missed another driving season. I envy the Honda owners, they just change the oils and push the button on the next summer and everything works, Vision owners clean their carburetors and try to figure out the electrical problems  :o

[jefferson]

Not idling when hot and stalling sounds like a rich condition. Ignition maybe, but I think it would be missing. Something to check would be the voltage on the ground at the tci unit. With the engine running see what voltage is there at idle and revving to like 3 or 4 thousand rpm. If there is voltage there it could be beneficial to tap into the ground and run a wire all the way to the battery negative terminal. Wouldn't hurt to see how much voltage is on all the grounding points.

[b_racuda]

Jefferson, did I understood it right, because the ignition coils, TCI and the pick up coils all share the same ground the bad grounding can affect all of these, nevertheless which one has the problem? I can measure the grounding points today or tomorrow and also the ignition coil resistances. I did order the new aftermarket ignition coils and cheap second hand pick up coil. I am planning to change the ignition coils first, because it is much easier. See what happens after that, is the problem still there. Today I did put my carbs leaner about 1/6 turn, there was a massive effect on the accelaration! Still there is something odd with the electrics. But the bike runs so I ride until the spare parts arrive.

There is a bog or at least problem with quick response to turning gas fast (under 4000rpms). So for cure to that I have planned to change the accelator pump rod spring. I looked how it behaves and I think the response is quite slow as the gas is turned. The old spring is quite slack and I don't know if it is original. So if I install a bit stiffer spring maybe the response is better. Also I don't have the modified flapper in the airbox, my bike was originally German low power version and PO has changed the carbs so I don't know which model they were originally used. But if I place a 10 gram weight (weight of two nickels) to the flapper door, maybe it helps with the response also?

One note also for the oil. I did use cheaper Teboil Superbike fully synthetic oil 15W-50 on my Vision previously. When I did visit the store it was sold out so I chose a little more expensive Shell Advance Ultra 4-T 15W-50. I never expected such a different. The clutch is better, the gears are better and the engine sounds quieter. There is nothing measurements it is just feeling  ;D Anyway, I am planning to use this Shell oil in the future also.

[Walt_M.]

Did you put in a new accelerator pump diaphragm? The rod and spring operation is counterintuitive.  Backing off the spring increases the pump stroke and puts in more fuel. If the diaphragm is bad, that could be part of the problem.

[jefferson]

In effect, everything on the bike shares grounding points and most of them must do so through the old harness which most likely has built up resistance over those years. What I am talking about is bypassing the harness and going directly to the battery so the ignition can do it's best work.

[b_racuda]

Walt, actually I did put a new diaphgram, despite the old one was only 1 year old.

Drove today about 150 kilometers, the bike starts well, rides well above 4000rpms but the problem starts when you are at the lower rpms. The bike wont idle when hot (about 80 degrees of celcius or More). Also it nearly stalls and the tach needle is jumping. I have To check the groundings and put a wire from bottom of the ignition coil directly to battery minus terminal.

Good news, everything with the water pump, thermostat and expansion bottle seems to work fine. So there is some progress!

[Walt_M.]

Do not put battery negative to the ignition coil! Look at the resources section, Dave's electrical FAQ I think. The coils get switched Positive on the red/white wire and the other side goes to the TCI and is grounded to charge the coil. If you ground that wire, it probably won't run and may burn up the coil. I think whoever is advising you on this wants to make sure the black wire at the TCI is connected to solid ground.

[b_racuda]

The ground which is located under the left ignition coil, not the coil itself. I don't think that grounding does nothing to coil.

[Walt_M.]

You are correct,  I just misunderstood.

[jefferson]

It would be best if you checked the voltage at that ground to see how much there is and then check again afterwards so you know if you helped anything. The ground going to the tci may be more important going by reports on other forums. If there isn't any voltage there then it may not be worth doing.

[Rikugun]

It would be best if you checked the voltage at that ground to see how much there is and then check again afterwards so you know if you helped anything.

I'm not sure I fully understand the concept, could you elaborate a bit? Which meter setting, what probe goes where, expected voltages you'll find, etc.