Restoring Vision, what needs to be done?

[jefferson]

You would use the dc volts setting and put your probes on the ground point and the battery negative terminal. It would be best to put a good load on the electrical system so get as many lights on as possible and the fan running would be about it. I guess you could honk the horn too. You will see how much voltage is flowing through the meter rather than going through it's normal path as through the meter is the least resistive path. The voltages should be checked at idle and with the engine revving. Same with the ground on the tci unit. I use a paper clip to get into the connector as the probes don't always get in there too well.

[b_racuda]

Thanks for the advices Jefferson. Been busy lately but maybe in the weekend I have possibility to start measuring the voltages and ohms.

Also purchased a new spacer for the front wheel axel. My original was quite worn out when I assembled but I think the steering is not perfect now. I assume that helps to get alligment right.

[b_racuda]

Finally got time to do some measurements. Actually I changed the the ignition coils to new ones before measuring the old ones. So after changing those I measured the ohms from the originals:

Rear ignition coil:
Primary winding 3,2 ohms
Secondary winding 8,93 ohms

Front ignition coil:
Primary winding 3,1 ohms
Secondary winding 8,60 ohms

According to http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFaq.pdf the values should be:
Primary winding 2,75 ohms
Secondary winding 7,9 ohms

I also measured the pickup coils, my current ones have the values:
145 ohms and 140 ohms, which is not ok.

According to http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFaq.pdf these should be:
Sensor Pickup should read: 110 ohms (99-121 ohms is acceptable) in both cases

Well I have a spare one and it gave the readings 115 ohms and 121 ohms. So it should be ok.

Nevertheless fired up my Vision with new ignition coils but with old pickups. I noticed that after changing the ignition coils the mixtures were not right so I did adjust them again.  It was better but not quite there, feeled like it is not firing every time and it stalls again when it got hot but before that the idle was smoother. So I think I have to change the pickups also.

Conclusion, maybe there was something wrong with the ignition coils, I know that there was something wrong with my TCI but it seems that there is also something wrong with my pickups as well. I also talked with the few people who has worked with old bikes and they said that often the ignition coils work when they are cold but start to fail when warm. Well, at least I know after changing the pickups that everything with ignition should be in working condition. And if your Vision is acting strange when hot and your carburetors are clean suspect all these TCI, pickups, ignition coils.

[Walt_M.]

Looks like you have found a problem that is rare, bad pickup coils. First I have heard of but definitely worth checking. Here's hoping you finally get some quality riding time.

[Rikugun]

I have respect for jetavi8tor and the factory specs he quoted but will still warn about absolute resistance values when it comes to diagnostic work. Often times unless there is an obvious flaw - open, short, wildly low/high ohm value - the best results are achieved with replacement with known good parts. Nuance in ohm readings can be misleading as scale used, type & quality of meter and experience of the user can impact readings. Regarding the secondary winding test, did you install new spark plug caps or happen to measure their resistance? Were the replacement coils new or used and if used, known to be good or claimed to be good? Did you reuse the spark plug leads or did the new coils come with them installed?

Did you happen to record new coil resistance to compare to the old ones? Since carb adjustment was needed one might assume there was an impact changing them out but without knowing those values, there is some useful info missing.  If the resistance of old and new coils were similar (despite being outside published values) and there was a perceived change in running, I'd question if the coils made the difference or an unrelated and intermittent problem was the culprit. Maybe pickup coils? Or, you have simultaneous multiple electrical component failure i.e. coils and pickups for instance. Statistically less likely but possible.

One more thing on pickup coils. I only have personal experience with 2 or 3 instances of this type of failure and none were with a Vision. Having said that, how the problem presented was heat related in that on cold start there was no problem but as things warmed the affected cylinders dropped out. It was fairly sudden and dramatic when it happened and wouldn't recover until it cooled. In one case where the coils lived under a dry cover, I blew compressed air on the coils and the affected cylinders came back on line temporarily. That's not to say this is the only way the problem can present but in the few examples I came across it did. Yours (if bad) could be at the point where even when cold they won't function properly.

I don't envy you as these kinds of problems can tax one's patience. Continued good luck and hang in there.  :)

[b_racuda]

The ignition coils are new, actually the primary winding resistance is higher than stock ones, it is 3,5ohms. I think it is nothing dramatic, I understood that if the resistance is low it is bad for TCI. I have quite new NGK spark plug caps with 5kohms resistance and also quite new wires, they are only 2 years old. I did purchase them when I got my Vision. Also the spark plugs are NGK Iridium plugs. So now there is nothing original but the pickups. TCI is from Ignitech, ignition coils are aftermarket ones etc.

I don't know for sure if they were broken, the resistance were not in the given values so they might be broken. I don't know how to better analyze those with my knowledge. And also when I feel that there is something wrong with ignition and for sure the carburetors were working earlier fine so I have to change all the parts relating to ignition. It is possible, that only pickups were broken in the first place. But as it is said, it is very rare that pickups fail. So I started with the most common one the TCI. But after changing parts there is every time feeling that it is going on the right direction, lets see what happens after changing the picups.

[fret not]

I hope this makes everything work well.  I am a supporter of the Ignitech system, and may be ordering one before long.  I think the Ignitech ignition is more robust than the stock unit, and will serve you well.

[b_racuda]

Finally got inspiration to start changing the pickup coils. Noticed that I don't have the gasget, of course the old is useless after opening the stator side. Also the Philips heads were very tight and one was really pain in the a**. Finally got it loose. Well, as usual I have to wait the gasket from Germany for one week. I have to learn to first order all the gasgets before starting  ;D

[QBS]

IMHO an impact screwdriver is the only way to loosen and install Phillips head screws.  After you get your new engine cover gasket, trace out a copy of it on a sheet of thin cardboard.  Cut the tracing out and punch out the necessary screw and dowel holes.  Save your OEM gasket for future tracings as necessary.

When the time comes to install the engine side cover, put a thin coating of grease on the engine gasket contact and side cover contact surfaces.  Stick your newly made gasket copy to the engine and install the side cover over the gasket.  This gasket does not control a pressurized environment.  It only controls gravity fed leaks.  Coating the engine and side cover interface surfaces with grease keeps the gasket from sticking to either surface and being destroyed during the next disassembly.  A gasket installed this way (even your traced copy) can be successfully reused many times.

[jefferson]

A set of the Vessel jis screwdrivers are a godsend when it comes to phillips head screws. They fit the heads so tight an impact may not even be needed and if it is there is one included in the set. The bits that came with my impact didn't fit the heads very well and would strip them out instead of backing them out. I wish I hadn't waited so long to get a set.

[Rikugun]

I'm glad you got them out but I'd agree with QBS' findings here regarding the impact driver tool. Even a properly fitting screwdriver can only do so much with hand strength alone on particularly stubborn screws. Years ago as a new mechanic I bought a set from Snap-On and have used it many times with the (more than likely) non-JIS tips included.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/111513691190-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

[b_racuda]

I bought today new bolts and some gasket paper. I try to get new sealing done by myself and see if those M6 stainless steel bolts are okay to hold pickup coils in place.

I have few times nearly bought impact hammer. Local shop is selling it around 20 euros. I have screwdriver where you can place the tips, that is what I am using most of the times with Vision. I have never tried impact hammer, I think I have to purchase it now after your recommendations.

[b_racuda]

The gaskets are still on their way. But I tried to fix my own gasket and use some motor silicone to get my Vision running because today I planned to ride to Imatra to see Imatra International Road Racing Championship. The plan was to ride a very nice route from Lahti to Imatra but the motor was leaking oil so badly I was forced to cancel it. Even tried to fix it twice last night but with the same result.

Nevetheless I went for a short test drive. The bike was totally different bike! There was steady idle, the bog was gone and plenty of power. Still slight hesitation between 3500 to 4000rpm but I think that is solved with adjusting the carbs. Well, I have to say the final problem was in the pickup coils. All the changes I made were step to better but changing the pickup coils finally solved the problem.

According to DPD Parcel tracking the gasket are allready in my home town, so maybe today they are delivered to my door step. So maybe today evening I am able to get the oils to stay inside with the prober gasket. I am so confident now that I allready reserved a time to local motorshop who is adjusting my Visions carbs at the dynometer  :o

[Rikugun]

I'm glad to hear the pickup coils did the trick. I don't recall hearing any cases of that on a Vision yet but like any component, they can fail. Hopefully the new gasket will fix the oil leak and you'll be able to enjoy riding your Vision.

[QBS]

Beware of silicone sealent getting loose inside your engine.  It could block critical oil passages.

[b_racuda]

Yesterday I finally got the gaskets. Today I am planning to put oil in the engine, wash the bike and go for a ride! QBS, I removed all the old silicone sealant and tried also see that nothing is left inside the engine.

Lets see how everything works today. The forecast is promising a good weather here so maybe I can test my GoPro and get some footage how my Vision is running  ;D

[b_racuda]

Little update. Okay, my bike was in the dynometer and they adjusted my carbs. Now the carbs also work fine BUT...the dyno only showed 42HP and 39,5Nm. The expert said that there is something still wrong and something is restricting the power (not enough fuel or air). He said that the dyno curves seems like the bike has limited power. Well, I did ride with it and there is still lack of power. Also after hard accelerating suddenly the bike don't respond to the turning the gas. First I thought that maybe it is the tank cap, the bike is not having air through the cap, The cap is aftermarket and I did now modify it a bit. But it didn't cure the problem. Now I am thinking it may be the fuel pump. How do you think, where the next gremling is?

Why the fuel pump? The YICS is repaired and before dyno I checked it with no leaks. Also carburetors are clean (ultrasonic cleaned + two times after that cleaned with carburetor cleaner). The carburetors are now syncronized and mixtures are set (local expert did those with all the tools needed). The carburetors have been repaired with new parts. The petcock is NOS, only 1500km driven with that. The ignition is totally repaired. All the fuel lines are new. All the vacuum lines are new. I can't figure out anything else anymore...  :-\

Another thing is, should I put Keyster kit to my fuel pump or get a electric one instead?

[jefferson]

Might be worth checking your exhaust for a dead rodent or some such plugging things up. Stranger things have happened.

[Walt_M.]

I would put an electric fuel pump on it before I would rebuild the standard pump. I just got another R1 pump on ebay for $20 US delivered. I am going to put it on my Rhino.

[Rikugun]

I feel like there may be a few unknowns at play and I wouldn't focus on the pump alone - especially if no effort has been made to determine what flow rate is nominal for it and if it achieves that. I looked in the factory manual and didn't see a test for flow rate. Maybe someone with a Haynes manual could check? Alternatively, you could fill the tank and run the petcock on prime directly to the carbs thus eliminating the pump. If no dramatic HP increase is noted, it wasn't the fault of the pump. They are simple and robust and generally speaking haven't been a huge problem of the Vision. Of course it's rare for the pick-up coils to fail too and you've experienced that so who knows....  :D

I think your bike started life as a "low power" German model? I recall you swapped the cams and carbs for "standard" HP versions. Are there any other differences like lower compression pistons or smaller valves? Another thing that could dramatically affect HP is timing advance. Is there any way to verify you are getting at least the advance the OEM unit offered? I'm working on the assumption you have an aftermarket TCI.

Finally, what HP would you expect to see? Realistically, what might one expect from a Vision at the rear wheel? It may help to know just how far off the mark the bike is - 5%? 15%? More?