Restoring Vision, what needs to be done?

[b_racuda]

Thanks POD for the answer. I did found another source, in fact I visited XS forum and there was topic conserning this which said that the right type is M3x8 DIN 966 A2. So I located those type of bolts from Germany via Ebay, only problem is that soon I have 50pcs of those  ;D Well, the cost was 3,49 euros and delivery 7 euros to Finland. So total sum is 10 euros which is about the same in USD. That is a lot for 4pcs tiny screws...I have noticed that owning a Vision is not cheap  ;)

Limited offer: If anyone need these screws I can send those just with the cost of the delivery, subject to availability and only for the forum members.  :o

[b_racuda]

Finally butterfly valve seals replaced and carburetors ultrasonic washed. Got it started but mixture is not correct so there is no idle at all. Maybe tomorrow little test drive and after that I try to get mixture right. But the response for the throttle is way better than before! I think I had also wrong jets, I replaced them according to the Haynes manual.

[Walt_M.]

No idle is usually caused by clogged pilots but you have been through them pretty thoroughly.  Have you tried syncing the carbs?

[b_racuda]

I did not have time to adjust the mixture today. I just got it back together and tried to start just to be sure that it starts. So I am not worried yet :) Carbs were synced before the last rebuild. Now having the following jets:

Front:
Main jet 122,5
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Rear:
Main jet 127
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Noticed that in the last rebuild I must have put the wrong pilot air jets. Because they were 120. Also did have the same main jets on both carbs, 127. I think the bike did run quite alright, just the little hesitation and maybe lack of power. Well the test drive tomorrow will tell more how things are with the new setup. The old butterfly seals were quite hard, it was time to change them.

[Walt_M.]

I think you will find that you will have to synch the carbs as a last step every time you touch them. This includes any time you adjust valve clearance.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I did not have time to adjust the mixture today. I just got it back together and tried to start just to be sure that it starts. So I am not worried yet :) Carbs were synced before the last rebuild. Now having the following jets:

Front:
Main jet 122,5
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Rear:
Main jet 127
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Noticed that in the last rebuild I must have put the wrong pilot air jets. Because they were 120. Also did have the same main jets on both carbs, 127. I think the bike did run quite alright, just the little hesitation and maybe lack of power. Well the test drive tomorrow will tell more how things are with the new setup. The old butterfly seals were quite hard, it was time to change them.

You probably have the evil EPA version of Haynes.
Euro spec is 120/120 pilot air jet (Yamaha manual on my signature link) That's a much better choice because it causes more pollution :-)

[b_racuda]

I did not have time to adjust the mixture today. I just got it back together and tried to start just to be sure that it starts. So I am not worried yet :) Carbs were synced before the last rebuild. Now having the following jets:

Front:
Main jet 122,5
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Rear:
Main jet 127
Pilot air jet 130
Float height 36mm

Noticed that in the last rebuild I must have put the wrong pilot air jets. Because they were 120. Also did have the same main jets on both carbs, 127. I think the bike did run quite alright, just the little hesitation and maybe lack of power. Well the test drive tomorrow will tell more how things are with the new setup. The old butterfly seals were quite hard, it was time to change them.

You probably have the evil EPA version of Haynes.
Euro spec is 120/120 pilot air jet (Yamaha manual on my signature link) That's a much better choice because it causes more pollution :-)

Oh crap, that evil EPA, thanks POD. I shall change pilot air jets to 120 today before trying to set the mixtures :)

[Walt_M.]

Since all humans exhale carbon dioxide, I think everyone who believes in human caused climate change should hold their breath at least four hours every day. That would solve the problem.

[b_racuda]

Changed the pilot air jets and there is a idle. But while I was setting the mixtures the cooling liquid was coming from the overflow tube from the reservoir. Tried to loosen the air breather bolt and tested again. But the result was the same. Is the thermostat broken or what may be the cause?

EDIT:
Just searched the what may be the cause. So the cheaper and the easier one is bad radiator cap which is not holding the pressure. The second and more expensive one is blown head gasket. The problem occurred after the carburetor cleaning. This may have nothing to do with it. The water starts to come out when temperature is 104 celcius and before the fan kicks in.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Some expansion is normal.  Did you overfill the overflow bottle?

[QBS]

What is the temp gauge showing?  How close to the Red Zone?

[Rikugun]

What QBS asked and where are you measuring coolant temperature? I would think the fan would have come on prior to 104 C. Have you checked the operation of the fan to make sure it works? I don't think you've overheated it yet but if you do, you then might have to consider blown head gaskets.

My guess is what POD suggested that being the expansion tank was overfilled prior to your test run. As a side note, whenever running the bike long enough to make carb adjustments it's a nice thing to do to put a box fan (or the like) in front of the radiator to get some air movement across it.

[b_racuda]

Thanks for the replys. Here is more information about this. So I can't recall that I have overfilled the overflow bottle. Actually I was driving few times to work before the carburetor cleaning. Then the the bike was normal with the temperature, the temperature was around 75-80 degrees when driving. Maybe I did refill the overflow bottle when I took the plastics off, I really can't remember.

I have Koso aftermarket temperature gauge installed. It is digital and the measuring point is the same as with the stock meter. The measuring head was perfect fit with the stock location.

The bike did not idle that long when I was setting up the mixtures, max 10 minutes. Also the ambient temperature was only 12 degrees of celcius (yeah, summertime in Finland).  I turned the bike off when I saw that the overflow bottle was kind of boiling. The temperature gauge was showing 104 degrees of celcius. The second time I started the bike and it was the same but then the fan kicked in. I remember that the thermostat opens when the temperature is 85 degrees of celcius and is totally open at 95 degrees of celcius. I had feeling that the liquid was not circulating properly, I can't say why. Maybe because the temperature was raising also when hitting over 85 degrees.

But there is numeral stories about the bikes having the same symptons with overflow bottle and the cause is head gasket failure. I have to check the thermostat first and try again.

[fret not]

Important to check in the engine oil for any evidence of coolant.  It may cause the oil to have a cloudy or milky appearance.  If you find any coolant in the oil do not operate the motor until the problem is repaired or you run the distinct risk of damaging the main bearings and rod bearings.  These are 'plain' bearings and depend on a film of oil between the bearings and the crankshaft journals.  Coolant in the oil will surely lead to a failed crankshaft.

Also check the coolant for any evidence of oil.  Oil in the coolant is messy and still requires repair.

[Rikugun]

Good idea to check the oil for coolant contamination.

I'd think if the head gasket were compromised in the way you suspect there would be copious clouds of white smoke emanating from the exhaust. Have you adjusted the expansion tank level where it belongs when cool then run the engine through a heating cycle to see what happens?

[b_racuda]

Little update. There is no sign of oil in coolant. Also the oil seems to be normal black. But I noticed that the little hole in the front of the water pump is wet, not coolant but oil! I think that hole is to indicate the mechanical seal condition, when the coolant is running from the hole the mechanical seal is broken, correct? But if its leaking oil...is that normal?

Well, I purchased a new thermostat, it is for the Toyota Corolla 1985 1.3 liter. I read somewhere in this forum that it should fit for Vision. Now I need also the mechanical seal for the water pump.

[fret not]

" . . .oil seems to be normal black." 

Should not be black, the oil should be more clear.  Black oil is heavily contaminated and may indicate poorly burned fuel (soot) leaking by the piston rings.

There is also a seal that should be replaced on the inside of the engine cover near the water pump.  It is held in place with a snap ring (circlip) and it holds the oil pressure for the crankshaft.  If the seal goes bad there will be low oil pressure, and this is very bad for the bearings on the crankshaft (both rods and mains).

[The Prophet of Doom]

the mech seal perhaps isn't the only way oil can get into the coolant.

I did the mechanical seal on mine a couple of weeks ago.  There is a genuine Yamaha part 90890-04078  to drift in the mechanical seal.  Without it you will really struggle I think.  Sockets are too fat walled to use as a drift, and the seal walls buckle really easily.

I ended up turning one on the lathe.  I didn't have a nice bit of steel stock so used delrin, then when that broke, aluminium.  It worked - just, but the thin walls buckled as I hammered and destroyed it, so I can't even lend it to you.

Even with a tool it's a bit of a pig.  Good luck

[b_racuda]

I looked up the parts fiche and ended up ordering new mechanical seal http://www.ebay.com/itm/KR-Wasserpumpe-Dichtung-YAMAHA-XZ-550-S-11U-82-84-NEU-Waterpump-Seal-/151057828421

But I am strugling to find that oil seal 93101-10090, the nearest one is in United States and I don't want to wait 2-3 weeks it to arrive to Finland and spend 20-40$ on post. I was thinking if the Suzuki oil seal is the same, I mean Suzuki part number 09283-10004-000. Anyone know if that is the same what Yamaha uses?

Also thinking to put a new bearing, that is sold in the local shop and it cost under 10 euros (6001-RS).

POD, ok, so you are saying that I will need time, patience and a lot of beer to get the mechanical seal changed. How it is compared to starter clutch repair?

[The Prophet of Doom]

The starter clutch can be done without specialist tools. Mech seal not so much. It's easy enough if you have a thin walled drift the right size possibly some copper pipe would do it. I don't recall the size but perhaps around 20mm.

The seal you need is  a standard metric seal. I cot mine from a seal shop for about $5 just took the old one it and they measured off it no problem.